Author Topic: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!  (Read 73749 times)

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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2007, 12:27:56 PM »
I made another batch of 100% whole grain pizza. I lowered the hydration level to 95% and omitted the vitamin C. No mixer was used, just the stir method. I know what you're thinking. This is whole grain? ::)

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 01:03:18 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline Boy Hits Car

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2007, 07:14:59 PM »
Vila Roma,

Have you ever tried using White Whole Wheat flour?  It has a milder taste then regular and only a slightly less protein content.

King Arthur sells regular with 14.7% protein and white with 13% protein.

I'm planning to try your recipe with white whole wheat in my home oven at 550 degrees and 90% hydration 2-day cold ferment.  Any thoughts?  Your pizzas look great, btw.

Mike

Oh, and how do you shape into a ball with that much hydration?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 08:23:18 PM by Boy Hits Car »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2007, 01:15:16 AM »
Boy Hits Car.....I haven't used the white whole wheat flour yet. Actually I tried some German WWW and it came out OK. The flour in Europe has a lower protein content and acts totally different. I may try it again with the stir method but I'm working on getting the commissary to stock the WWW flour, either Gold Medal or preferably KA.

The 95% hydration sounds like a lot but the flour really absorbs a lot of water so it's really easy to form a ball just like regular flour. You may have to adjust the hydration level a bit to compensate for the different flour but the concept is the same.

Good luck.....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 01:18:25 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Boy Hits Car

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2007, 10:28:01 AM »
Villa,

Thanks for the reply.  I made a dough this morning following your recipe with honey, oil and citric acid and used 87% hydration.  The dough is basically like a really thick pancake batter.  Can't form a ball at all with it; very sticky and wet.  I'm going to have to try a lower hydration.

Mike

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2007, 10:54:59 AM »
BHC....I made a few small test batches to get the hydration level in the ballpark. I started with 50 grams of flour so I didn't waste a lot dough. Once I got the mini test batches right I made the full batches. Stay with it.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 10:57:10 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Boy Hits Car

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2007, 11:09:41 AM »
I sifted the www flour twice and got the hydration to 78%.  I think I could get it to 80% with little problem.  I'm going to cook this tomorrow or Tuesday night.  Thanks VR.

Mike

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2007, 02:27:00 PM »
It's been awhile since I posted some pictures, so here's the latest batch of pizza. This batch was 90% whole wheat and 10% stone ground rye. I used a small amount of sourdough starter in addition to the usual amount of yeast. I took videos of the hand mixing and should have them posted soon. I'll place a link when that happens.

      Villa Roma


Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2007, 08:17:14 AM »
I made a video the last time I made whole grain pizza and posted it on the tube. The big difference is this pizza is made without a mixer. That's right, I used a screwdriver and a plastic bowl to mix this batch of whole grain pizza. I cut the business end off the screwdriver and rounded it over with a file. I did this just to prove that you don't need a big fancy mixer to make great pizza. The last pizza on the video is 90% Harvest King and 10% rye flour so this method works equally well with regular white flour.

The dough was 90% stone ground whole wheat and 10% stone ground rye flour but it was 100% delicious! ::) I used 95% hydration which seems high but as you will see it was no problem.

The rye made the dough a little heavy but it adds some good flavor. You can use all whole wheat for a lighter pizza dough if you like.

(
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh_PDRlK1Js" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh_PDRlK1Js</a>
)

Here’s the recipe:

540 gm Gold Medal stone ground whole wheat flour (90%)
  60 gm Hodgsons mills stone ground rye flour (10%)

270 gm cold water (47.5%)
270 gm cold milk (47.5%)

  12 gm honey (2%)
  12 gm salt (2%)
  12 gm olive oil (2%)
  3/32 tsp IDY (1/64 tsp per 100 gm)
  Vitamin C

         Villa Roma
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 10:36:59 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline abatardi

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2007, 01:26:03 PM »
i think the real secret is making the dough while barefoot.   :-D
Make me a bicycle CLOWN!

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2007, 06:48:01 AM »
Here's yet another batch of whole grain goodness cooked in the little black egg, again, no mixer was used, just me and my trusty Snap-On screwdriver. >:D I ran out of cheese :o after 9 pizzas so I regrouped and made two king size, whole grain bagels, great for sandwichwes.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 06:50:22 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline Ronzo

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2007, 11:31:56 PM »
Mighty fine looking friend.

I'm trying to increase my intakes of whole grains as much as possible and figured I'd extend that into my pizza making.

I tried a Whole wheat blend the other day and came out 'ok'. I simply made some crusts to guage the taste. A little flat in the taste department, and a little thick in texture. Not as light as I would have liked.

Glad to see I'm not alone in my desire to try the whole grain pizza train.

How did your last batch taste?
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2007, 02:49:35 AM »
Hi Ron.....Yo mamma :-* probably told you that you should eat a diet rich in fiber and whole grains but most of us have been traumatized with the heavy, harsh taste of whole grains gone awry. Fortunately, it doesn't have to be that way.

By using a few simple techniques anyone can produce a whole grain pizza that is light and flavorful (like the ones above). The three basic techniques that I use are:

1. High hydration dough. This really lightens up the dough, making it easy to mix and enables the crust to expand to it's fullest potential. I go with a 95% hydration rate, this will vary with the type of flour used so you'll have to experiment.

2. Small amount of yeast coupled with a long, slow, room temperature fermentation. This will put the kabosh on the raw, bitter, grassy taste of the bran. It will also develop the glutenus to the maximus. You may also want to try white whole wheat flour. It's an albino strain of wheat that has all the nutritional properties of regular whole wheat without the strong flavor.

3. High heat oven. Most home ovens only go up to around 500 degrees. I cook my whole grain pizzas at around 625 in the gas-fired LBE. I've never had good luck with an electric oven. As soon as you open the oven door to load the pizza, the temp drops 50 degrees and the heating element just doesn't have the muscle to get it back up to temp quickly enough. Any good cook will tell you caramelization equals flavor and you need the right temperature and oven for that. Remember, brown is good, black is burnt!

     Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:57:12 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Ronzo

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2007, 08:10:11 AM »
Hi Ron.....Yo mamma :-*
Man... what a greeting! ;) "Yo momma" back at ya, bubba! (just kidding)

By using a few simple techniques anyone can produce a whole grain pizza that is light and flavorful (like the ones above). The three basic techniques that I use are:

1. High hydration dough. This really lightens up the dough, making it easy to mix and enables the crust to expand to it's fullest potential. I go with a 95% hydration rate, this will vary with the type of flour used so you'll have to experiment.

2. Small amount of yeast coupled with a long, slow, room temperature fermentation. This will put the kabosh on the raw, bitter, grassy taste of the bran. It will also develop the glutenus to the maximus. You may also want to try white whole wheat flour. It's an albino strain of wheat that has all the nutritional properties of regular whole wheat without the strong flavor.

3. High heat oven. Most home ovens only go up to around 500 degrees. I cook my whole grain pizzas at around 625 in the gas-fired LBE. I've never had good luck with an electric oven. As soon as you open the oven door to load the pizza, the temp drops 50 degrees and the heating element just doesn't have the muscle to get it back up to temp quickly enough. Any good cook will tell you caramelization equals flavor and you need the right temperature and oven for that. Remember, brown is good, black is burnt!

     Villa Roma

Tanx yo. Daz sum good teeps.

I think the room temp fermentation is what I was missing the most.

I can generally only go up to 450 on my oven because when I hit 500, and open the door, the smoke alarm goes off. I guess I need to clean my oven, eh?  :-D And it's electric. I'm in a rental apartment and can't change that.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 08:12:57 AM by Ronzo »
Fuggheddabowdit!

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Offline ron45

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2007, 06:28:42 PM »
Hello folks. Love the idea of WW pizza. I'm new to pizza but not WW baking. Coupla things. Fresh ground ww flour is never bitter or grassy tasting. If it's bitter its old and rancid. You should notice a mild burning sensation after swallowing a bite if it's rancid. There is not much difference between hard red spring and hard red winter wheat. Winter is usually more even in it's protean amounts. Some times spring is higher sometimes it' not. So it's a bit of a crap shoot with spring. I don't know that you need high protean bread flour of pizza dough. But it could be so. On the sourdough site Mike recomends using left over ww sourdough plus some ww flour for making pizza dough. I'm looking forward to baking my first ww pizza soon. Villa Roma's  pics are awesome can't wait to try VR's recipe.

Ron
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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2007, 01:14:28 AM »
Looks like we may have a Ron convention going on here (my name is Ron also).

Ya mahn, I B tankin u fo dem WW "teeps" U B providin mahn. ;)
Seriously, I get my flour in the AF commissary here in Germany and I just bought some two days ago. The use by date is 26 Dec 07 so it's old flour but it's all I can get here. I also have some Hodgson mills whole wheat graham flour that is fresh so I'll have to give it a shot. It's a course grind so the crust is not as light as the GM flour crust. I may try running it through my coffee grinder.

Welcome aboard and keep us posted on your whole grain pizza exploits....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 09:31:01 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2007, 08:49:57 AM »
Ron, I know this might have been asked before, but how long does it take the LBE to get up to temp 650 and how often do you have to refill the propane...thanks

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2007, 09:30:41 AM »
It takes 30 minutes to get to 650 degrees at around half throttle and uses about 2 pounds of propane per firing average, less in the summer and more in the winter. At that rate a 20 pound tank will be good for 10 firings. I can get it up to temp faster by turning up the gas but I fire the oven and then start chopping and prepping so 30 minutes works good for me.

Keep in mind that I make at least 8 pizzas everytime I cook so a tank makes about 80 pizzas for me. If you cook inside a sheltered area like a garage you will use less gas. I cook on the back patio of my 2nd floor flat.

The final cost is about 20 cents per pizza with the way I cook depending on how much you pay for propane. A tank lasts me about six months.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 09:53:10 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2007, 11:26:08 AM »
Thanks for the info...I always love checking out your pizza pics...

Offline Jackitup

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2007, 11:52:17 AM »
Villa Roma,
Where in Germany are you at? I was stationed in Pirmasens Germany '73-'76 and sure miss the stands that served up those curry wurst, sauced in those little cardboard troughs and the hard, chewy broetchen buns(?spelling) that went with it. Washed down with a couple dopple bocks....what a good lunch. Some of the best oxtail soup I've ever had was over there too. But I digress from this thread. I'll have to give this dough a try, pics look good. You should send me some curry wurst though ;-)
Jon
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Offline pcampbell

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 03:49:14 PM »
I decided to start with 75% water, since 63% is about the most I've used before. This was with KA WW flour.  The water really did get sucked up.  I just put everything together and let it sit for 30 minutes, then #2 for 6 minutes.

Unfortunately I think I had some pressure on the scale when I tare'd it and think I might have put 12g of salt into 325 grams of flour (3.6%) - guess I will find out tomorrow. 

I put 1g of yeast and I'm going to leave it out for about 26 hours at 62 F.  Not sure if that is too much.  I am really trying to figure all of this % of yeast to temperature to time stuff but seem to have a tendency to have underdeveloped instead of overdeveloped dough.
Patrick


 

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