Author Topic: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!  (Read 82897 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Boy Hits Car

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 147
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2007, 11:09:41 AM »
I sifted the www flour twice and got the hydration to 78%.  I think I could get it to 80% with little problem.  I'm going to cook this tomorrow or Tuesday night.  Thanks VR.

Mike


Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2007, 02:27:00 PM »
It's been awhile since I posted some pictures, so here's the latest batch of pizza. This batch was 90% whole wheat and 10% stone ground rye. I used a small amount of sourdough starter in addition to the usual amount of yeast. I took videos of the hand mixing and should have them posted soon. I'll place a link when that happens.

      Villa Roma


Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2007, 08:17:14 AM »
I made a video the last time I made whole grain pizza and posted it on the tube. The big difference is this pizza is made without a mixer. That's right, I used a screwdriver and a plastic bowl to mix this batch of whole grain pizza. I cut the business end off the screwdriver and rounded it over with a file. I did this just to prove that you don't need a big fancy mixer to make great pizza. The last pizza on the video is 90% Harvest King and 10% rye flour so this method works equally well with regular white flour.

The dough was 90% stone ground whole wheat and 10% stone ground rye flour but it was 100% delicious! ::) I used 95% hydration which seems high but as you will see it was no problem.

The rye made the dough a little heavy but it adds some good flavor. You can use all whole wheat for a lighter pizza dough if you like.

()

Here’s the recipe:

540 gm Gold Medal stone ground whole wheat flour (90%)
  60 gm Hodgsons mills stone ground rye flour (10%)

270 gm cold water (47.5%)
270 gm cold milk (47.5%)

  12 gm honey (2%)
  12 gm salt (2%)
  12 gm olive oil (2%)
  3/32 tsp IDY (1/64 tsp per 100 gm)
  Vitamin C

         Villa Roma
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 10:36:59 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline abatardi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 432
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Santa Clara, CA
  • It's MOOPS!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2007, 01:26:03 PM »
i think the real secret is making the dough while barefoot.   :-D
Make me a bicycle CLOWN!

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2007, 06:48:01 AM »
Here's yet another batch of whole grain goodness cooked in the little black egg, again, no mixer was used, just me and my trusty Snap-On screwdriver. >:D I ran out of cheese :o after 9 pizzas so I regrouped and made two king size, whole grain bagels, great for sandwichwes.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 06:50:22 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Ronzo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1411
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Leander, TX
  • Beer, Whiskey, Freedom n' Pizza...
    • New Texian Brewery
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2007, 11:31:56 PM »
Mighty fine looking friend.

I'm trying to increase my intakes of whole grains as much as possible and figured I'd extend that into my pizza making.

I tried a Whole wheat blend the other day and came out 'ok'. I simply made some crusts to guage the taste. A little flat in the taste department, and a little thick in texture. Not as light as I would have liked.

Glad to see I'm not alone in my desire to try the whole grain pizza train.

How did your last batch taste?
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2007, 02:49:35 AM »
Hi Ron.....Yo mamma :-* probably told you that you should eat a diet rich in fiber and whole grains but most of us have been traumatized with the heavy, harsh taste of whole grains gone awry. Fortunately, it doesn't have to be that way.

By using a few simple techniques anyone can produce a whole grain pizza that is light and flavorful (like the ones above). The three basic techniques that I use are:

1. High hydration dough. This really lightens up the dough, making it easy to mix and enables the crust to expand to it's fullest potential. I go with a 95% hydration rate, this will vary with the type of flour used so you'll have to experiment.

2. Small amount of yeast coupled with a long, slow, room temperature fermentation. This will put the kabosh on the raw, bitter, grassy taste of the bran. It will also develop the glutenus to the maximus. You may also want to try white whole wheat flour. It's an albino strain of wheat that has all the nutritional properties of regular whole wheat without the strong flavor.

3. High heat oven. Most home ovens only go up to around 500 degrees. I cook my whole grain pizzas at around 625 in the gas-fired LBE. I've never had good luck with an electric oven. As soon as you open the oven door to load the pizza, the temp drops 50 degrees and the heating element just doesn't have the muscle to get it back up to temp quickly enough. Any good cook will tell you caramelization equals flavor and you need the right temperature and oven for that. Remember, brown is good, black is burnt!

     Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:57:12 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Ronzo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1411
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Leander, TX
  • Beer, Whiskey, Freedom n' Pizza...
    • New Texian Brewery
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2007, 08:10:11 AM »
Hi Ron.....Yo mamma :-*
Man... what a greeting! ;) "Yo momma" back at ya, bubba! (just kidding)

By using a few simple techniques anyone can produce a whole grain pizza that is light and flavorful (like the ones above). The three basic techniques that I use are:

1. High hydration dough. This really lightens up the dough, making it easy to mix and enables the crust to expand to it's fullest potential. I go with a 95% hydration rate, this will vary with the type of flour used so you'll have to experiment.

2. Small amount of yeast coupled with a long, slow, room temperature fermentation. This will put the kabosh on the raw, bitter, grassy taste of the bran. It will also develop the glutenus to the maximus. You may also want to try white whole wheat flour. It's an albino strain of wheat that has all the nutritional properties of regular whole wheat without the strong flavor.

3. High heat oven. Most home ovens only go up to around 500 degrees. I cook my whole grain pizzas at around 625 in the gas-fired LBE. I've never had good luck with an electric oven. As soon as you open the oven door to load the pizza, the temp drops 50 degrees and the heating element just doesn't have the muscle to get it back up to temp quickly enough. Any good cook will tell you caramelization equals flavor and you need the right temperature and oven for that. Remember, brown is good, black is burnt!

     Villa Roma

Tanx yo. Daz sum good teeps.

I think the room temp fermentation is what I was missing the most.

I can generally only go up to 450 on my oven because when I hit 500, and open the door, the smoke alarm goes off. I guess I need to clean my oven, eh?  :-D And it's electric. I'm in a rental apartment and can't change that.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 08:12:57 AM by Ronzo »
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew

Offline ron45

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 9
  • Age: 70
  • This is our cob oven in progress.
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2007, 06:28:42 PM »
Hello folks. Love the idea of WW pizza. I'm new to pizza but not WW baking. Coupla things. Fresh ground ww flour is never bitter or grassy tasting. If it's bitter its old and rancid. You should notice a mild burning sensation after swallowing a bite if it's rancid. There is not much difference between hard red spring and hard red winter wheat. Winter is usually more even in it's protean amounts. Some times spring is higher sometimes it' not. So it's a bit of a crap shoot with spring. I don't know that you need high protean bread flour of pizza dough. But it could be so. On the sourdough site Mike recomends using left over ww sourdough plus some ww flour for making pizza dough. I'm looking forward to baking my first ww pizza soon. Villa Roma's  pics are awesome can't wait to try VR's recipe.

Ron
Card carrying tree hugger.


Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2007, 01:14:28 AM »
Looks like we may have a Ron convention going on here (my name is Ron also).

Ya mahn, I B tankin u fo dem WW "teeps" U B providin mahn. ;)
Seriously, I get my flour in the AF commissary here in Germany and I just bought some two days ago. The use by date is 26 Dec 07 so it's old flour but it's all I can get here. I also have some Hodgson mills whole wheat graham flour that is fresh so I'll have to give it a shot. It's a course grind so the crust is not as light as the GM flour crust. I may try running it through my coffee grinder.

Welcome aboard and keep us posted on your whole grain pizza exploits....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 09:31:01 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline MTPIZZA

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2007, 08:49:57 AM »
Ron, I know this might have been asked before, but how long does it take the LBE to get up to temp 650 and how often do you have to refill the propane...thanks

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2007, 09:30:41 AM »
It takes 30 minutes to get to 650 degrees at around half throttle and uses about 2 pounds of propane per firing average, less in the summer and more in the winter. At that rate a 20 pound tank will be good for 10 firings. I can get it up to temp faster by turning up the gas but I fire the oven and then start chopping and prepping so 30 minutes works good for me.

Keep in mind that I make at least 8 pizzas everytime I cook so a tank makes about 80 pizzas for me. If you cook inside a sheltered area like a garage you will use less gas. I cook on the back patio of my 2nd floor flat.

The final cost is about 20 cents per pizza with the way I cook depending on how much you pay for propane. A tank lasts me about six months.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 09:53:10 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline MTPIZZA

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2007, 11:26:08 AM »
Thanks for the info...I always love checking out your pizza pics...

Offline Jackitup

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5136
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Hastings, MN
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2007, 11:52:17 AM »
Villa Roma,
Where in Germany are you at? I was stationed in Pirmasens Germany '73-'76 and sure miss the stands that served up those curry wurst, sauced in those little cardboard troughs and the hard, chewy broetchen buns(?spelling) that went with it. Washed down with a couple dopple bocks....what a good lunch. Some of the best oxtail soup I've ever had was over there too. But I digress from this thread. I'll have to give this dough a try, pics look good. You should send me some curry wurst though ;-)
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline pcampbell

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Warren VT
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 03:49:14 PM »
I decided to start with 75% water, since 63% is about the most I've used before. This was with KA WW flour.  The water really did get sucked up.  I just put everything together and let it sit for 30 minutes, then #2 for 6 minutes.

Unfortunately I think I had some pressure on the scale when I tare'd it and think I might have put 12g of salt into 325 grams of flour (3.6%) - guess I will find out tomorrow. 

I put 1g of yeast and I'm going to leave it out for about 26 hours at 62 F.  Not sure if that is too much.  I am really trying to figure all of this % of yeast to temperature to time stuff but seem to have a tendency to have underdeveloped instead of overdeveloped dough.
Patrick

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2007, 02:50:10 AM »
Jackitup....I'm stationed at Spangdahlem, just down the road from Bitburg. Been here 2 years and hope to stay for another 3. I was also at Aviano in Italy for 5 years.

     Villa Roma

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2008, 05:57:42 AM »
It's been awhile so here's a batch of whole grain pizza that I cooked in the recently modified LBE. These were cooked at 650 degrees for 3 minutes. These were very light and I think I could have eaten three of these.  :-[  I also made a whole grain bagel with one of the dough balls.

   Villa Roma
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 05:59:17 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline ehanner

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 33
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2008, 01:24:09 AM »
Boy that ham and pineapple sure looks good VR. Do you get your ham shaved very thin? It looks like that but I can't tell for sure. Have you ever tried using BBQ sauce instead of tomato pizza sauce for Hawaiian Pizza's? I use Sweet Baby Rays some times and it's a big hit.

Eric

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2008, 01:38:16 AM »
Eric..... Thanks, I've never tried BBQ sauce but I have tried salsa. You can use it straight or add it to an existing tomato based pizza sauce. If it's chunky, I grind it up in my mini food processor first. It adds a nice red pepper zing to the pizza.

The ham I use is shaved very thin. It's prepackaged honey ham and I don't have the brand name available as I just took out the trash. I'm sure any quality ham shaved thin will work fine.

I ate the Hawaiian with onions and it was fantastic. Yesterday for lunch, I split the bagel, spread some onion and garlic cream cheese then layered on some chicken, red peppers and some greens. Both were nice and light and deliciouso!

As I've said in the past, pizza does not have to be junk food. For a 9" pizza I simply limit the meat and chesse to no more than 2-3 oz of each and use a whole grain crust. Use lean meat like roasted chicken breast or lean ham and stay away from the the fatty meats like pepperoni and sausage.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 01:45:58 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2008, 12:18:04 PM »
I'll be traveling next weekend so I made a trial batch of mini pizzas. I place these in individual ziplock bags and whenever I get the munchies, I just whip out one or two. They go great on planes, trains and automobiles and are a great healthy alternative to the road food blues.

These little darlings are about 6" in diameter, cooked in the Pizza Bella.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 12:33:22 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline scottfsmith

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 117
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2008, 08:51:09 AM »
Villa Roma, I finally got around to trying your recipe posted earlier on this thread.  I used KA white whole wheat flour at 100% hydration and cooked them on my 2stone at 850F for 1.5 minutes.  I didn't do any mixing, just stirring with the spoon every now and then.  Total ferment time was around 30 hours at room temp.   I have to say I had a heck of a time working the dough, it was so sticky.  The first pizza I sort of blew it on - the dough kept sticking and getting holes in it.  I had to use a ton of bench flour on it.  For the second one I decided to just knead a bit more flour into it right before shaping, and that one in fact worked out very well.  I was worried it would negatively impact something else, but on every front the second pizza was good.  Both pizzas had a very puffy crust just like your pictures (I didn't take any pictures unfortunately, family was waiting for foooood).  The taste of the crust was also excellent.  The first one I had to use too much flour on the paddle and it had that bitter taste on the bottom.

I would like to hear how you deal with the stickiness.  Do you use a screen so you don't need to have them sliding off a paddle?  My plan at this point for next time is about two hours before the bake to knead in a bunch more flour to make the dough manageable.  This is related to what I did for my second pizza but will give the new flour time to ferment a bit.  Also how big are your dough balls?  I made two pizzas from your recipe and the crust was pretty thick in the middle.

I am going to have to rethink toppings - the crust has a stronger flavor and requires a different approach to the toppings so the crust flavor will not dominate.  Sausage and mushrooms, not margherita.

Overall, there is a great pizza hiding here, but I've got a ways to go still..

Scott


Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2008, 03:04:03 PM »

I would like to hear how you deal with the stickiness.  Do you use a screen so you don't need to have them sliding off a paddle?  My plan at this point for next time is about two hours before the bake to knead in a bunch more flour to make the dough manageable.  This is related to what I did for my second pizza but will give the new flour time to ferment a bit.  Also how big are your dough balls?  I made two pizzas from your recipe and the crust was pretty thick in the middle.

scottfmith....I think you're using too much hydration for the type of flour. I use GM whole wheat flour and the white whole wheat that you're using is a softer variety with less gluten. If you get a chance try the GM whole wheat at 95% hydration or stick with the WWW and lower the hydration until you get the desired results.

I flour the dough balls and then stretch them out pretty thin. I like the gutsy taste of whole grains especially when they get a little char on them. My dough balls weigh in at 200 grams for a 9" pizza.

      Villa Roma

Offline scottfsmith

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 117
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2008, 03:15:59 PM »
Thanks -- I wasn't thinking that the flour could make so much difference.  I like this KA white whole wheat a lot otherwise, so I am going to first get a recipe for it before moving on to other kinds of flour (also I have 5lbs of it to use up!).

Scott


Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2008, 12:33:27 AM »
Thanks -- I wasn't thinking that the flour could make so much difference.  I like this KA white whole wheat a lot otherwise, so I am going to first get a recipe for it before moving on to other kinds of flour (also I have 5lbs of it to use up!).

Scott



Scott.....When I first started dealing with whole grains I made several 50 gram batches of dough until I found the ideal combination. I found that the recipes that were out there just didn't work. Most were just too heavy.

The goal was to make a 100% whole grain pizza that was light and tasty but was very healthy. I only use 2% olive oil and sugar in the dough and about 2 oz of lean meat and cheese each on a 9" pizza. I let the dough rise for 12-24 hours at room temperature to develop the gluten. Here's some shots of the pizza I made last week. These were 100% GM stone ground whole wheat flour. Notice the bubbles that are present and the puffy, plump crust, even with whole grain flour. The key is ultra high hydration and a long slow fermentation, cooked at high heat.

I'll be traveling back to to the east coast in late March so I'll see if I can score a bag or two of KA WWW and bring it back to my pizza lab for experimentation. Egor can hardly wait!

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 01:16:18 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline scottfsmith

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 117
Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2008, 08:32:36 AM »
VR, your recipe certainly achieved that light airy crust for me, in spades!  It was even puffier than my "normal" pizzas.  I will try to take some pictures of my next batch.  The next recipe I will reduce the hydration on a bit, to make it more workable.  Actually I think next time I will keep the initial hydration very high, but work in a bit more flour two hours beforehand.   My wife also bought a bag of KA WW (not white) and I will also be trying that out.

For the toppings I think meat is a good idea to balance the stronger tasting crust.  Also I think something like eggplant would be good to try, and perhaps drizzling some balsamic vinegar on the top at the end.

Scott