Author Topic: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!  (Read 81325 times)

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Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2008, 09:28:34 AM »
Here are two more whole grain pizzas. I used 50% GM stone ground WW flour, 33% Hodgson mills stone ground WW graham flour and 17% Hodgson mills stone ground rye flour. They weren't as light as my last batch since I used only the GM flour last time but they were every bit as good. I also used a blend of fresh mozz, pecorino romano and Sargento grated mozz cheese.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 10:12:13 AM by Villa Roma »


Offline jkandell

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2008, 05:04:58 PM »
The three basic techniques that I use are:
1. High hydration dough. This really lightens up the dough, making it easy to mix and enables the crust to expand to it's fullest potential. I go with a 95% hydration rate, this will vary with the type of flour used so you'll have to experiment.
2. Small amount of yeast coupled with a long, slow, room temperature fermentation. This will put the kabosh on the raw, bitter, grassy taste of the bran. It will also develop the glutenus to the maximus. You may also want to try white whole wheat flour. It's an albino strain of wheat that has all the nutritional properties of regular whole wheat without the strong flavor.
3. High heat oven. Most home ovens only go up to around 500 degrees. I cook my whole grain pizzas at around 625 in the gas-fired LBE. I've never had good luck with an electric oven. As soon as you open the oven door to load the pizza, the temp drops 50 degrees and the heating element just doesn't have the muscle to get it back up to temp quickly enough. Any good cook will tell you caramelization equals flavor and you need the right temperature and oven for that. Remember, brown is good, black is burnt!

Some other techniques to get 100% whole wheat flour to work for pizza:
4. Use whole wheat that is labeled as "bread" flour, i.e. fine grind.
5. Use a big amount of sourdough!  If you mix 25% whole wheat sourdough with 75% new whole wheat flour (plus water to your favorite hydration), and let it sit 8-12 hours it will be surprisingly extensible.

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2008, 11:51:57 AM »
Here's three more from my latest batch.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 01:11:41 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline wildfire

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2008, 01:47:04 PM »
I hope you get to make that video soon because I keep failing miserably at making 100% whole grain pizza.  It's getting pretty ridiculous.  :'(

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2008, 12:45:18 PM »
Here's some pizzas from my latest experiment. I used 100% Gold Medal WW flour at 85% hydration instead of using the stir technique and 95% hydration, I used my KA stand mixer with the spiral hook. I added flour until the dough just cleared the mixer bowl, total mix time was 10 minutes on speed 2. These were cooked at 750 degrees.

These pizzas came out OK but the lower hydration causes the rim to be a little more crusty. The dough was very easy to handle and stretch though. I may try the mixer with 90-95% hydration next.

      Villa Roma
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 01:33:26 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline jagercola

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2008, 10:07:05 PM »
Hey guys,

I picked up a small bit of GM whole wheat flour to play with.  Hopefully I have enough for a pie or two.  Seriously though, I'm lucky to have a bakery wholesaler here in town that will sell to me.  Even with the recent rise in flour costs, I'm getting it $2+ cheaper per five pound increments compared to my favorite grocer.  Now it's time to experiment with some 100% WW recipes.  I had been using KA WWW, and will continue to use that for cookies, cakes, etc., but for breads and pizza, it's red winter wheat time!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 10:21:11 PM by jagercola »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2008, 01:01:11 AM »
Hi Jag and welcome to the specialty grains section. It looks like you'll be doing some heavy duty baking with 50 pounds of  flour. Did you have to take out a 2nd mortgage on the house? :-D There's only a small handfull of whole grainers on the board but I suspect that may change soon. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your pizzas so hopefully you have a camera so you can show off some of your accomplishments.

     Villa Roma
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 01:03:25 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2008, 11:33:48 AM »
Here's a sort of thin crust whole grain pizza I made this weekend. I did not use any starter with this batch and this resulted in a dough that was very extensible.

      Villa Roma

Offline jagercola

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2008, 11:57:54 AM »
Well, I baked a whole wheat pie @ 500 in my tile lined oven.  It turned out really well, and the taste was so much better than white whole wheat that I had been using.  I don't think that taste preference would be agreeable to everyone, but I just like that hearty nutty taste. 

Villa Roma:  I used your basic formula for 400g of flour on the first page.  The only difference was I didn't have 30 hours, so I used a mixer and more instant yeast.  I made the dough last night (400g flour) and split it into two balls, one out all night, one still in the fridge.  Since you are agitating the dough in the mixer and forcing it around, the hydration ended up being less than 90% because I had to throw in 3 Tbs of flour to be able to work and divide it post mixer.  I'm going to try the "stir" method and 30 hr rise with less yeast next.  Villa, when you make your bagels, do you boil them at all or straight bake?  Also, did you ever put vital wheat gluten in the dough?

Thanks..

Nutrition Info - 6 Slices Total
Per 2 Slice Serving  - Calories - 438kcal - Protein 32g - Carbs 56g- Fat 8g (34%, 58%, 8%)

Good little meal that sticks with you!  I just made a quick pizza sauce with tomato paste, a chopped grilled chicken breast (spiced), and 2.5oz of part-skim mozzarella.

Edit:  Man, I got to build an egg to get some char.  Even tiles in a 500 degree oven don't fire the crust enough.
     
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:00:36 PM by jagercola »


Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2008, 12:15:05 PM »
Villa, when you make your bagels, do you boil them at all or straight bake?  Also, did you ever put vital wheat gluten in the dough?

Thanks..     

I don't boil the bagels. Sometimes I have some extra dough so I just poke a hole in the dough ball, stretch it out a little and toss it on the stone. I never use VWG but I normally use about 1/4 cup of white flour starter.

For the batch above I used my spiral hook KA mixer with no starter and an 8 1/2 hour ferment. I made the dough this morning and baked it this afternoon. Here's the recipe:

600 gm GM Stone Ground WW Flour
405 gm cold water
135 gm milk
12 gm sugar
12 gm lite salt
12 gm oil
1/8 tsp IDY

Put the flour, water and milk in the mixer bowl and stir to combine, let rest for 1 hour. Add remaining ingredients and mix on speed 2 for 10 minutes. The dough temp should be around 72 degrees. Let rise for about 3 hours and then just lightly knock down or stretch and fold the dough every few hours. Scale, let rise 1-2 hours and bake at 650 degrees for about 3 minutes.

Here's another pizza from the same batch.

      Villa Roma
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:30:11 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline thatonegirl

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2008, 02:38:37 PM »
Hey all,

I've enjoyed reading this thread, and it's so nice to know that there is a small army of whole grainers out there in pizza land  :D
I actually made a ww pizza this week, but I used Randy's Papa John's recipe with the KA white wheat flour since I was lacking a ww recipe. I made the dough in the morning and let it ferment at room temp for the day then made it that night. Topped the pie with chicken mixed into the sauce of crushed tomatoes and herbs and garlic, then mozzarella, tomatoes and my favorite...marinated artichoke hearts! It baked quite well, and I'm wishing that I had taken a pic of it to post now (sorry), but the flavor of the dough was disappointing. It did have a slight bitter taste even though the flour was not old. It just had a (for lack of a better description) a heavily saturated wheat flavor.
I read that a couple of you were trying out recipes with KA white wheat flour. Have any of you had any luck, and if so, would you mind posting your recipe?

Thanks!

Offline jagercola

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2008, 09:47:45 PM »
I had an extra dough ball from Villa's recipe, and I wanted to see how far I could push a 100% WW dough in terms of versatility, so I used it to make sticky buns.  I was up against typical sweet doughs or Brioche doughs that I've done before in KA WWW.  I was actually pretty impressed.  :D The heartiness of the WW contrasted nicely with the "goo".  I think the milk from Villa's recipe helped as well.  The dough didn't need any additional sweetness outside of the 2% honey by flour weight.  Definitely a keeper.     

thatonegirl:  Don't quote me, but I think I was having success with KA WWW around 70% hydration with just water.  That KA flour is a whole grain miracle for cookies, cakes, and just about everything else.  The actual flour's taste isn't masked well in say, a pizza crust, so that is why I'm switching back to regular whole wheat for flavor.  If I could find that stuff in 50lb bags, it jump for joy.  The 5lbs run like $4.75 now.  I may try a KA WWW and GM WW blend someday. 



 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 09:49:30 PM by jagercola »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2008, 05:15:57 AM »
thatonegirl.....I tried making pizza with KA WWW flour and KA regular WW flour. The WWW didn't seem to have enough gluten in it to make a good pizza crust. The regular KA WW on the other hand came out nice and light. I normally use Gold Medal WW flour simply because it's half the price of KA. The KA flour was better but it isn't worth $5 a bag.

Here's a tip you may want to try to counteract the grassy and sometimes bitter taste of whole wheat. Use frozen orange/pineapple juice concentrate instead of sugar. This creates an acidic environment that really helps out the fermentation process and adds vitamin C (ascorbic acid) which helps with gluten development. Just double the amount of sweetener called for in the recipe but sub in the juice concentrate instead. Attached is a WW pizza made with orange pineapple juice concentrate and a small amount of starter.

      OJ, it's not just for breakfast anymore.....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 02:48:12 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline thatonegirl

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2008, 11:16:17 PM »
Thanks Villa Roma!

So what kind of a starter do you use?

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2008, 11:48:23 PM »
Thanks Villa Roma!

So what kind of a starter do you use?

I make a home grown starter using 125 grams of Harvest King flour plus 100 grams of orange pineapple juice. Sprinkle a very small pinch of IDY and mix it together. Let it sit out at room temperature and once it starts getting active treat it like any other starter.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 02:53:46 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2008, 12:29:04 PM »
Here is a pizza from this weeks batch. I used the same recipe as the one above.

    Villa Roma

Offline bay_wolf

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2008, 01:33:11 PM »
Just starting to dive into the whole grain pizzas since all my other food is whole grain. So, I was wondering for your bench flour do you use whole wheat or white?

PS: Depending on the outcome of my pizza tonight I'll probably post some pictures.

Regards,
Bay_wolf.


Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2008, 12:05:24 AM »
Just starting to dive into the whole grain pizzas since all my other food is whole grain. So, I was wondering for your bench flour do you use whole wheat or white?

PS: Depending on the outcome of my pizza tonight I'll probably post some pictures.

Regards,
Bay_wolf.

bay_wolf....I use regular AP flour on the bench although a finely ground WW flour would work equally as well.

     Villa Roma

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2008, 11:02:47 AM »
Here is the result of this weeks pizza bake. This is 93% whole grain as I used a little starter in the mix.
   
     Villa Roma


Offline alexvpickering

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2008, 01:07:12 PM »
Hey Villa, thank you for the 100% whole grain pizza recipe, I have been having great success with it(and plan to have more success as I just ordered a digital scale online). I have some sourdough starter in my fridge and would love to use it for this recipe - how much sourdough do you add in?

Thanks

Offline Fingerstyle

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2008, 01:23:02 PM »
VR

Thanks for the recipe, and for your continued innovations!  My first batch of four 13" pies (Giusto's WW/Goldrush SD, below) turned out pretty good. Very hearty, kinda chewy. I think a full flavored Italian sausage and some Shitakes might pair well with this crust. Come to think of it (your) pineapple/ham/olive std. sounds good too.

Got a second batch working now (overnight rise with a 8hr fridge retard). Aiming for a lighter texture. Might have to pony up for some Ischia, see what I'm missing.

Best regards,

Vic :pizza:
"... I say we ride some gravity." - Patrick Rizzo

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2008, 01:10:01 AM »
Hey Villa, thank you for the 100% whole grain pizza recipe, I have been having great success with it(and plan to have more success as I just ordered a digital scale online). I have some sourdough starter in my fridge and would love to use it for this recipe - how much sourdough do you add in?

Thanks

The last batch I used 800 grams of whole wheat flour. I added 80 grams of starter which I keep at a hydration level of about 70%.

    Villa Roma

Offline alexvpickering

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2008, 01:42:50 AM »
Thanks for the response, so by 70% hydration does that mean 70% be weight of water to flour is what it is at? (sorry I am kind of new to this thing)

Also does everything else remain the same - except obviously no yeast?

Offline Villa Roma

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2008, 04:04:04 AM »
Thanks for the response, so by 70% hydration does that mean 70% be weight of water to flour is what it is at? (sorry I am kind of new to this thing)

Also does everything else remain the same - except obviously no yeast?

That's right, so to 100 grams of flour add 70 grams of water. I also still use 1/8 tsp of yeast.

    Villa Roma

Offline alexvpickering

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Re: 100% whole grain pizza barrier shattered!!!!
« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2008, 04:14:16 PM »
awesome thank you,

I think that my flour must act quite a bit differently maybe as its a different brand of whole wheat (no name). What is the process you go about to make the test batches? Do you just make really small batches with all the normal ingrediants scaled down and do the overnight thing still and all that? I don't have any of the really small measuring spoons for the yeast, will it make a big difference if I eyeball it? Thanks again!