Author Topic: Pizza Shoppe-style?  (Read 15866 times)

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Offline Klankster

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2014, 05:25:39 PM »
OK, I took another shot at this last night, when a friend from KC, who is familiar with Pizza Shoppe, was visiting.  I did my mix in a food processor as before, but this time tried processing just the oil into the dry ingredients first, before adding the water/yeast mixture.

I made a 1-pound batch (1 pound flour) for two 12-inch pizzas.  24-hour countertop rest in a sealed container.  Split the dough into two pieces, then rolled each out, dusted with flour, folded in half, dusted with flour again, then folded that in half (to make 4 layers) then rolled that out to the final size, docked and put in the cutter pan and trimmed.  Parbaked the crust on a stone at 500F for 4 minutes, let cool on a rack, then topped and baked at 450F on the stone for about 7 minutes.

The result was pretty good.  Photos attached.  I had tried doing a 16-layer version the last couple of weeks but it took so much rolling out that the layers kind of welded themselves together and you really didn't get a lot of separate layers like I wanted.  As you can see in these pix, there are some nice separate layers.  My friend said she thought it was better than Pizza Shoppe, but I still think something is missing.

I am using a fabulous smoked pepperoni from our local meat market which is just jaw-droppingly delicious, along with a couple variants of their Italian sausage.  Dang, it's good.

I'll keep working on this -- it looks like we're going to KC sometime next month, at which point I'll definitely visit Pizza Shoppe to get a pizza and evaluate what they might be doing differently.
They call me MISTER Pizza-Boy!


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2014, 05:35:59 PM »
OK, I took another shot at this last night, when a friend from KC, who is familiar with Pizza Shoppe, was visiting.  I did my mix in a food processor as before, but this time tried processing just the oil into the dry ingredients first, before adding the water/yeast mixture.

I made a 1-pound batch (1 pound flour) for two 12-inch pizzas.  24-hour countertop rest in a sealed container.  Split the dough into two pieces, then rolled each out, dusted with flour, folded in half, dusted with flour again, then folded that in half (to make 4 layers) then rolled that out to the final size, docked and put in the cutter pan and trimmed.  Parbaked the crust on a stone at 500F for 4 minutes, let cool on a rack, then topped and baked at 450F on the stone for about 7 minutes.

The result was pretty good.  Photos attached.  I had tried doing a 16-layer version the last couple of weeks but it took so much rolling out that the layers kind of welded themselves together and you really didn't get a lot of separate layers like I wanted.  As you can see in these pix, there are some nice separate layers.  My friend said she thought it was better than Pizza Shoppe, but I still think something is missing.

I am using a fabulous smoked pepperoni from our local meat market which is just jaw-droppingly delicious, along with a couple variants of their Italian sausage.  Dang, it's good.

I'll keep working on this -- it looks like we're going to KC sometime next month, at which point I'll definitely visit Pizza Shoppe to get a pizza and evaluate what they might be doing differently.
dang klang....that looks real delicious. what oil percent you use on that one?
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Offline Klankster

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2014, 10:17:09 AM »
dang klang....that looks real delicious. what oil percent you use on that one?
Not sure what percentage it would be -- for this batch I used:

1 pound bread flour
2 tsp baking powder
1.5 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
1.5 TBSP canola oil
3/4 Cup water
1.5 tsp ADY

That's a little more oil than I usually use, and I've been adding the baking powder for a while to see if it will improve it -- the jury's out on that one.  This rolled out a little nicer than when I use 1TB of oil, I was kind of shooting for a little more oil to put in with the flour first to coat the flour, then add the water to see if that would affect the outcome.

The main indicator I have that I'm not on the completely right track with this for a Pizza Shoppe clone is that the crust isn't really tender like PS's is -- it's a bit tougher/harder, if you know what I mean.  One thing I always liked about PS is that you can pick up a piece of their pizza by the edge crust and it doesn't flop -- its crust is structurally really strong (probably because of the laminated layers and all those interlocked blisters) -- but when you bite into it, it's crunchy AND TENDER, which was kind of amazing to me when I discovered them back in the 80s.  To me, this is the key element I'm missing.  This pizza I'm making is good, make no mistake about it, but it isn't that holy grail of Pizza Shoppe quality.

I use the trimmings from the cutter pan edge to make crackers to go along with the salad we usually make -- I salt the scraps a little, chop them up into bite-sized pieces and then bake them about 3 minutes on a side on a pizza pan at 500F on the stone.  They puff up well and come out pretty nice and crunchy -- but not tender-crunchy like PS; their outside is harder than it would be if made from PS crust.

Maybe the bread flour I'm using is too high in protein?

I feel I'm getting close on this -- I'd give about anything to be able to talk to someone who works at Pizza Shoppe or who used to work there, and knows what they use and do in their crust-making process.
They call me MISTER Pizza-Boy!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2014, 01:29:55 PM »
this may sound strange, but i would exchange that baking powder for powdered milk.
if that don`t do the trick then yes, try AP flour.
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Offline Klankster

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2014, 02:25:38 PM »
this may sound strange, but i would exchange that baking powder for powdered milk.
if that don`t do the trick then yes, try AP flour.
Doesn't sound strange at all -- I use that in some of my bread machine bread recipes.  I'll try that this weekend.
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2014, 08:05:40 PM »
I made an attempt tonight. Too tired to write a full recap right now. Will do it soon. Here's a couple pics.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2014, 11:51:33 AM »
I want to say right away that most of this pizza did not look like those two pics. I could tell the pizza was laminated, but most of it didn't have this kind of separation. In fact, I knew right after mixing the dough that this pizza probably wouldn't be what I was shooting for. First of all because the dough was much softer/wetter than I expected. I also mixed it wrong. I think I used too much yeast, as well.

Having said that, the pizza was very good, and I think I know some things I need to do to make it a lot more like the pizzas in the pics a couple pages back.

My formula for yesterday's pizza:

100% Superlative flour
53% Hot water
0.75% IDY
2% Salt
3% Veg oil
  • Mixed the dough with my flat beater attachment, just until it all came together, then put the dough in warm oven for about an hour.
  • After that hour or so, I divided the dough into three dough balls (or dough cubes).
  • Rolled each dough cube as thin as possible, using a heavy amount of bench flour.
  • Stacked the three square sheets of dough, then folded in half.
  • Folded in half the other way to end up with a square with 12 layers.
  • Rolled the dough until it was clearly bigger than 12". (I originally planned to make a 14" pizza but was too tired, so I went with 12".)
  • Placed the pan on my scale and tared the scale.
  • Placed dough over cutter pan.
  • Used a pastry roller to trim dough.
  • Weighed dough and pan, with scale still tared.
  • Dough weighed about 16.29 oz (462 g).
  • TF = 0.144 (I originally intended to do 0.120 or 0.130).
  • Docked the skin (a little more heavily than usual).
  • Put the skin in freezer for an hour or two.
  • Moved skin to fridge.
  • Baked after 5 or 7 hours, at about 450.
  • 12 minutes in pan, then another 4 or 5 minutes on stone.
What I'm pretty sure I did wrong.
  • Hydration was too high (but not as bad as you might think).
  • Too much yeast.
  • The pizza in the real pictures is probably not a same-day dough.
  • Should have added oil to water or dough; not to flour.
  • Should have mixed longer, with dough hook instead of flat beater.
  • Too thick.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 11:59:56 AM by Aimless Ryan »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2014, 01:08:54 PM »
I'll be taking another stab at this tonight. Here are some details about tonight's dough:

100% Superlative flour
50% Hot water
0.5% IDY
2% Salt
3% Oil
0.5% Sugar
  • Mixed the dough last evening for 6 minutes with spiral dough hook (instead of using the flat beater with a much shorter mix time).
  • Added the oil along with the water this time, instead of adding oil to the flour.
  • Left the dough in warm oven for 30 minutes after mixing, then rolled the skin.
  • 12 layers.
  • Thickness = about 0.140 oz of dough per square inch. (I was shooting for about 0.130, but I guess it's just getting too hard for me to roll laminated dough and stand up at the same time; especially with 12 layers.)
  • Refrigerated and covered right away. Will leave it in the fridge until it's time to top the skin this afternoon or this evening.
I don't know how many more laminated skins I can make without the aid of a sheeter. The prep work wipes me out; even with a higher hydration dough like this (which isn't such a high-hydration dough after the bench flour gets to it). After a certain point while rolling the dough the only reason I can even stand up is because I am able to prop myself against the edge of my island. It might be about time to ask the pizza joint across the street if I can use their sheeter occasionally, assuming they use a sheeter (which pretty much every pizza joint around here does).

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2014, 09:01:00 PM »
No closer than before. Still a very good pizza, though.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2014, 12:51:18 PM »
I just rolled another skin, using the same dough that I used for the pizza I made a couple days ago. I only did 8 layers this time, with a 10" skin weight of about 10.1 oz. That's about TF=0.129 oz of dough per square inch. I think 8 layers will do better than 12 because it's just too hard to get 12 to show any separation, and it's also hard to roll 12 layers to the proper thickness; even with what begins as a soft dough.

I'll probably bake this pizza in about 5 hours. I have high hopes.

Oh yeah, and I'm thinking I'll probably bake at a higher temperature, too. Maybe as hot as my oven will go (550+35). Any thoughts about that?


Offline Klankster

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Re: Pizza Shoppe-style?
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2014, 10:12:31 AM »
I made one of these tonight with a modified recipe -- I used King Arthur all-purpose flour instead of bread flour in an attempt to make the crust a little more tender, plus I took a recommendation to use some nonfat dry milk instead of baking powder.  Using the amounts below, the dough was a bit wetter than usual, but it worked very easily and I was able to laminate it really well.  I decided to make pizza kind of late in the day (usually I make the dough 24 hours prior to starting the baking process) but I used some quick-rise yeast and it worked OK.  The result was quite good.

To make a 12-inch pizza plus some crackers from scrap:

8 oz King Arthur all-purpose flour
1.5 Tbsp nonfat dry milk
3/4 tsp sugar
3/4 tsp salt
3/8 cup warm water
1 Tbsp canola oil
1/2 tsp yeast

My method:

- Add yeast and sugar to water, set aside.
- Weigh flour, put in bowl of food processor.  Add salt, dry milk, pulse to mix
- With food processor running, add oil, then water mixture.  Stop processor, scrape sides, run processor until mixture is like damp sand.
- Turn mixed tough out, form into ball, place in sealed plastic container on countertop for up to 24 hours.  Sometimes I use quick-rise yeast and use in about 5 hours.

To make crust:

- Preheat oven with stone on bottom rack to to 500F

- Turn dough out onto well-floured surface
- With some flour sprinkled on top, use a tapered rolling pin to roll into a square
- Cut into 4 squares, dust with a moderate amount of flour, then stack the squares on top of each other
- Roll this assembly out to approximately 14 inches in diameter, dock, place in cutter pan, trim.
- Place pan directly on hot stone, bake for 4-5 minutes, or until the tops of a few blisters start to brown
- Slide crust out of pan onto cooling rack, let cool for 5 minutes
- While crust is cooling, make crackers.  Sprinkle salt onto trimmed dough scrap, cut into pieces, place on pan and put pan onto hot stone.  Let bake for 3 minutes.  Remove pan, flip crackers, bake for 3 additional minutes or until lightly browned.  Remove from oven and place crackers on rack to cool.

Making pizza:

- Turn oven down to 450F
- Place crust onto wooden peel
- Top crust with sauce & whatever you like
- Slide crust onto stone, bake ~7 minutes or until cheese on top starts to brown a little, or to your taste.

I'm attaching a couple of photos of the finished product.  Using all-purpose flour and the dry milk led to a beautiful crust texture, not too tough, but nice and crunchy.  I got good laminations with just 4 layers of dough, too.  I'll make another of these next week to make sure this wasn't just an accident, but it was darn good and I think this is what I'll use from here on out for this type of pizza!
They call me MISTER Pizza-Boy!


 

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