Author Topic: 2Stone Neopolitian questions  (Read 8551 times)

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Offline mmarston

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2Stone Neopolitian questions
« on: October 19, 2007, 01:57:44 PM »
With the help of many on the forum I have been making great Lehman style pizzas in my home oven for some time now.
When I first began making pizza I tried some Caputo 00 but as my oven was not hot enough I gave up on it. My 2Stone should arrive any day and I'd appreciate any suggestions for a Neapolitan style with 00 and SAF red yeast. (I'll get my starter going one of these days.)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 02:00:15 PM by mmarston »
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Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 11:34:01 AM »
Mmarston,

I have no experience with "00" but I would like to see some
of your results with the 2stone. Do you pick that up from a local
supplier or do you order it on line? No one sells it around here locally.

You should have gotten a tracking # if you didn't let me know,
I'll get one to you.

regards,
willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Online Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2007, 12:00:44 PM »
Willard,

You can find the Caputo 00 flour at http://www.chefswarehouse.com/Search/SearchResult.aspx?KeyString=caputo. The one you want is the Caputo Pizzeria (Pizza) 00 flour, not the Extra Blu (which has a lower protein content than the Pizzeria flour) or the Caputo Red (which has a higher protein content). You can also get the Caputo Pizzeria flour in the large bag (55 lbs.) and also in smaller quantities, in repackaged form, at http://www.pennmac.com/page/27. If you are interested, I would check total price, including shipping, at both places. You might even be able to get Fred Mortati at Orlando Foods (201-368-9197, ext. 11), the importer of the Caputo flours, to give you a sample of the Caputo Pizzeria flour to test out with your setup. You may be helping him gain a stronger foothold in the home user market.

If you can make the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour work with your setup, you will become a bigger hero than you already are ;D.

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 12:07:49 PM »
Willard,
Peter's reply beat me to it but another thing to know is that King Arthur sells an Italian style flour but it's not the same thing.
I did get a tracking # and if my 2Stone shows up on Tuesday I might try it that day.

Peter how about suggesting a dough to start with?
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2007, 12:46:20 PM »
Peter's reply beat me to it but another thing to know is that King Arthur sells an Italian style flour but it's not the same thing.

Peter how about suggesting a dough to start with?

I would advise staying away from the King Arthur Italian-style flour. It is a domestic "clone" with a protein content of 8.5%. The Caputo Pizzeria 00 flour has a protein content of 11.5-12.5%. With the availability of the Caputo flours, I see no need to try any others.

As far as a dough recipe is concerned, I am sure that there are others who are better qualified to recommend such a recipe since my experience with the Caputo flours has been in a home oven setting where the Caputo flours are not especially well adapted. However, I have studied many Caputo dough recipes and am willing to take a stab at a dough recipe if Willard would like to give the Caputo Pizzeria flour a go with his setup. Maybe there can be two dough recipes for Willard (or others) to try--one with a room-temperature ferment and another with a cold ferment, or possibly a combination of a room-temperature ferment and a cold ferment.

What say ye, Willard?

Peter
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 12:56:51 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2007, 01:02:28 PM »
Pete-zza,

thanks for all the info on "00" and yes if "Caputo 00" is the ***The most holy grail***
then I am up for the challenge. I am going to have to pick up a scale, do you have any
suggestions on one that does the job and won't break the bank?

regards,
willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2007, 01:07:19 PM »
Mmarston,

I hope you have a decent grill
that kicks out some BTU's !!!

willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Online Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2007, 01:26:43 PM »
Pete-zza,I am going to have to pick up a scale, do you have any
suggestions on one that does the job and won't break the bank?


Willard,

Since peoples' needs and pocketbooks can vary quite widely, I try whenever possible to lead people to enough information to allow them to make their own decisions. On the matter of digital scales, you may want to take a look at this thread and the links embedded therein: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5626.msg47736/topicseen.html#msg47736. Remember that a quality scale will last you for several years and have uses beyond weighing dough ingredients (such as a postal scale, for example). So, paying a few bucks more for a good scale will mean almost nothing over the life of the scale.

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2007, 03:33:00 PM »
Willard,

I have a big JennAire 44,000 btu that can suck down a tank of propane in 2 hours on high.
I'm awaiting recipes from the master.

Michael
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Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 02:14:32 PM »
For my first 2Stone 00 pie I have come up with this recipe based on various posts.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated
I canít bake till Saturday and want to make the dough today.

Flour 100%  75% 00/25% KASL
Water 60%
IDY .4%
Salt 2%

Room temp rise for 1-2 hours, punch down, fold, divide into balls and then into the fridge for 2 days. Rise on counter for 2 hours and bake.
 
Michael
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 03:33:29 PM »
Flour 100%  75% 00/25% KASL

Michael,

What is your reason for blending 00 with KASL?

Bill/SFNM

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 03:40:58 PM »
Some of Peters posts suggest this for lower temp ovens. I got my 2Stone up to around 750 so far. I don't think I'll ever get 900 out of it with my gas grill.

Michael
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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 04:02:44 PM »
Michael,

What you are proposing to do is a Dom DeMarco DiFara clone, which uses a 75/25 combination of flours as you noted. My last experiments with that style were at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg28531.html#msg28531 (see Replies 130-135). The formulation you are proposing is similar to one that I used and described in the abovereferenced thread, and should work for your purposes. However, if you are really trying to test the 00 flour with Willard's setup, you may want to use only the Caputo Pizzeria flour. I liked the DeMarco clones so I don't want to discourage you from your plans. Maybe a follow-up test can be done using a Caputo-only dough.

Have you decided on a dough weight and pizza size?

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2007, 04:31:24 PM »
Peter,

A 12" pie @261.63 g. tf.08

I guess I felt this recipe seemed like it would work well at a somewhat lower temperature. I'm open to an all 00 attempt if you'd like to suggest something.
When I first made pizza at home I used 00 and it was alright but I've eaten many Neapolitan pies in NYC and Italy and mine was not even close. The Lehmans I've been making are much better.
My wife wonders why I need to mess with the pizza anyway!
I'm also want to try starters as I have yet to go there. Maybe this winter.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2007, 06:16:52 PM »
While I'm at, it does anyone have a good idea of what to make with the King Arthur Italian-style flour? I bought some long ago and put it in the freezer when I realized it was not what I thought it was.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Online Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2007, 06:49:27 PM »
While I'm at, it does anyone have a good idea of what to make with the King Arthur Italian-style flour? I bought some long ago and put it in the freezer when I realized it was not what I thought it was.


Michael,

Marco (pizzanapoletana) once suggested that I add about 15% bread flour to a low-protein 00 flour (Bel Aria brand) to get something closer to the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. That worked out well. So, you might use a blend of your KA 00 "clone" flour and KASL. Maybe something like a 60/40 or 70/30 blend. My recollection is that another one of our members (I think it was friz78) also bought the KA 00 clone and used it to make DiFara clones, apparently with good results. If I can find the post, I will cite it.

Peter
EDIT: Here is the post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,862.msg8012.html#msg8012 (Reply 24).For background, see the preceding posts in the same thread.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 06:57:49 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2007, 08:19:40 AM »
Thanks for the info Peter.

My wife is going to Boston tomorrow so I can do some experiments. I'll try the DiFara clone and a pure 00 pie. Probably simple Marinara style so I can focus on the dough. One of the best pies I ever had was a Marinara at a small place on the water in Amalfi in 2000 (I'd have to look up the name).

Michael
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Offline scottfsmith

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2007, 08:34:32 AM »
... I got my 2Stone up to around 750 so far. I don't think I'll ever get 900 out of it with my gas grill.

Michael, if you post some pictures of your setup maybe we can suggest some ideas on how to heat it up some more.  mbusse on the original 2stone thread posted some pictures of how he used alu foil to get more heat into the 2stone.  I have also pictures there of how I put it lower in the grill to get more heat.  I would also try with both lid open and lid shut.  My grill has a large vent along the top when closed, so it does best with the lid closed.

Scott

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2007, 09:18:59 AM »
Scott,

My setup is almost identical to mbusse's. For my first test I was using a Blue Rhino tank. When I bake on Saturday I'll use another one. I might try lowering the pg but I'll have to make something to get it high enough to get the pie in and out.

Michael
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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 10:29:22 AM »
I'm open to an all 00 attempt if you'd like to suggest something.

Michael,

It occurred to me this morning that you might just try using all 00 flour rather than a blend. Your dough formulation looks like it should work with just the 00 flour. Since you would be operating at a higher bake temperature, you could also try upping the hydration to 62%, if you can manage it with your mixer.

Peter