Author Topic: 2Stone Neopolitian questions  (Read 8664 times)

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Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 11:21:34 AM »
Peter,

I'm actually figured out your suggestion of raising the hydration to 62% on my own. I must say I'm rather pleased with myself finding that your thoughts confirm my own.

I've got 2 balls of the 00 and 2 of the DiFara clone ready for tomorrow. I'll take pics.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 01:10:47 PM »
Michael,

Actually, I have found 62% hydration to be a pretty good number for just about all pizza flours, from 00 all the way up to high-gluten. The "feel" of the finished dough will, of course, be different for the different flours. I also found 62% hydration to be a good number when using the Caputo 00 with a natural preferment. When using very high oven temperatures, you can perhaps go higher but I am not sure whether that is really necessary. It may also complicate handling of the dough because it will be quite wet (if you are using a standard home mixer).

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2007, 07:50:20 PM »
The 2Stone is great, Thank you Willard!!!

It finally stopped raining and I was able to make my first 2Stone pies.
I preheated the pg for an hour and the air temp was around 750-800 with the grill thermometer at 600. Both pies were cooked for 4 minutes give or take. I was hoping to get a bit more char on the bottom and perhaps let the top get a bit too charred.

Both pies were much better than anything Ive made in my kitchen oven.
I preferred the texture of the DiFara clone over the 00. The flavor of the 00 was better however and my next pies will omit the EVO from the DiFara recipe.

Both recipes had the same hydration and IDY but the 00 did not rise quite as much as the DiFara. Ill try the 00 with a bit more yeast at some point after I replace my regulator and maybe get the 2Stone closer to the burners.

I still have 1 ball of each in the fridge that Ill make tomorrow or the next day to see how the longer rise affects them.

#1

Flour 100%  Cauputo 00
Water 62%
IDY .4%
Salt 2%

#2 DiFara clone

Flour 100%  75% 00/25% KASL
Water 62%
EVO 1.7%
IDY .4%
Salt 2%

tf .08 for both

Proof yeast in water for 10 minutes, add to other ingredients and mix in KA for 9 minutes. Room temp rise for 2 hours, punch down, fold, divide into balls and then into the fridge for 1 day. Rise on counter for 2 hours and bake.
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2007, 09:01:09 PM »
Michael,

Can you describe the texture of the finished crust, i.e, soft, chewy, crackery, etc.?

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2007, 09:10:33 PM »
The DiFara was thin and crispy outside with a soft airy interior.
The 00 was similar but more chewy.
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2007, 09:22:58 PM »
Michael,

For the moment, we should await the results of the dough balls you have in the refrigerator, but you might inch up the thickness of your dough in a future dough batch. I say this based mainly on your bake time. It is also possible that Willard may be able to offer you some guidance for getting the results you are after.

Peter

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2007, 09:27:43 PM »
Michael,

For a first run...that looks GREAT!

You can easily bring down the top temp
by pulling off some of the foil from your grate.
(I'm assuming you have foil on your grate)
You just need to lower the convection a bit.

Your first pie looks real nice, you should have no problem
doing "00"

Michael, you are really inspiring me to take
my dough making more seriously!!

thanks for posting all the pics

willard


2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2007, 09:42:31 PM »
Peter,

I just need a bit more heat on the bottom and it's perfect! I was so excited I forgot to but the Basil on.
I'm afraid I don't understand the thickness/bake time tip.

Thanks Willard, I am using foil so I'll adjust it although I'd prefer to get more heat on the bottom somehow.
I am by no means a dough expert but I'm working on it. Everything I know comes from the Forum.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2007, 09:57:30 PM »
I'm afraid I don't understand the thickness/bake time tip.

Michael,

My reaction was purely instinctive, based on a lot of experience working with 00 flours (but in a home oven environment). I found that I had to use a thicker dough to get the 00 flour to work in my oven (along with a mini-oven to get a higher temperature). I extrapolated from my experience. Obviously, if you can make modifications to your setup, you should rely on that rather than my suggestion.

Peter

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2007, 01:05:30 PM »
Peter,

I spent last week trying to find a more local
supplier of Caputo "00" were I could piggyback
my order in with a local pizzeria and not pay fright.
So far I'm down to one in Toledo who deliverers three
times a week locally. I'm hoping its in their catalog of
products.
I'm really looking forward to working on a couple of "00"
recipes. I also wondered if you had any thoughts on organic
flour. I see that is what Bianco uses.

Michael,

Just a thought, You may be able to reduce your convection
a little by just dialing down the burners slightly after it is preheated.
One setting for preheating and one for baking.


regards,
willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2007, 03:33:09 PM »
I also wondered if you had any thoughts on organic flour. I see that is what Bianco uses.

Willard,

Chris Bianco is known for using the best and freshest ingredients available to him, including organic and locally-grown food items. He uses a Giusto's organic bread flour that is milled especially for him. He also uses an olive oil blend that is especially blended for him from Arizona-grown olives. He makes his own mozzarella cheese, and grows his own herbs as much as possible. And, so on. He is not interested in using the Caputo or other brands of 00 flours. Yet he acknowledges the value of what Anthony Mangieri at UPN and others are trying to do with Caputo flours. It is just not his focus.

The Giuisto's flour, which appears to be no longer available at the retail level, will have more crust color than, say, a Caputo 00 flour, because it has a higher protein content than the Caputo flour and may retain more of the components that are often milled out of flours. That is why it is likely that the crusts made from a Giusto's flour, or some other brand of bread flour, will exhibit greater coloration than the Caputo doughs baked in your setup. There are also other chemical changes involving the protein that contribute to increased crust coloration in doughs made with protein levels higher than what are present in the Caputo flours. You will see what I mean when you get your Caputo flour and start playing around with it.

Peter

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2007, 03:43:21 PM »
Peter,

Long ago you suggested that I add a small amount (1.5%) of dairy whey to my Caputo dough for better browning.
I remember it worked quite well in a home oven and in fact I kept using it in my Lehman pies as well.
Might be worth a try.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2007, 02:09:06 PM »
I made pizzas today from my earlier DiFarra/00 batch. I wont post pics as they looked similar to the first batch. The dough had been in the fridge for 3 days which definitely improved the flavor. I should probably have punched them down on day 2 but forgot. I had a large bubble on both . I usually only leave my dough in the fridge for 1 day. I added foil to the grill area below the door so all the heat was directed through the pg. I let the pg preheat for about 40 min which improved the browning on the bottom and gave me a shorter cook time of 3 min for the DiFara (first) and  2 minutes for the 00 (second).
Id still like a bit more heat on the bottom (the Bayou burner may be the answer) but I feel the DiFara clone was very close to a good Neapolitan pie. The cornicione was crisp on the outside soft and airy inside. The crust was cooked through but soft.  The 00 pie was less chewy than the first one I imagine due to the shorter cook time. I will try the variations described in my earlier post in a few days.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2007, 10:55:55 PM »
Peter,

I'm still waiting for my "00" I have located a couple of sources
fairly local. If it gets to be to much of a problem I'll just go ahead
and get it from the source you gave me.
I have finished the 2stone pg Bayou adapter. It utilizes a secondary jacket
and top. I did these pies in under a min. GM breadflour 2hr room temp rise.
I think Caputo would handle the heat better.

willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2007, 08:22:50 AM »
Willard,

I'd love to see a picture of the adapter. I suspect I'll want one for Christmas.
I'll leave a pizza and beer for Santa instead of cookies and milk.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2007, 09:19:50 AM »
Michael,

I will be posting some pics
of the adapter/insulating jacket
later today.

willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2007, 06:13:17 PM »
Peter,

I got the Caputo "00" !!! so if you would be so kind to give me
a beginner recipe for a room temp proof version, I will do my best
to follow it, bake it on a 2stone and post the results.

thanks,
willard
2Stone blog: www.2stoneblog.com

Offline mmarston

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2007, 08:00:34 PM »
Tonight I tried my normal home oven Lehman and a DiFara clone without olive oil on the Pizza Grill.
It was cold and windy but I got my pg up to around 750  in hr. The grill thermometer read 550.
I did not time these but they cooked very quickly (around 3 minutes).

Lehman

Flour 100%   KASL
Water 63%
Oil 1%
IDY .3%
Salt 1.72%

tf .08

Divide into balls and then into the fridge for 2 days. Rise on counter for 2 hours and bake.


DiFara clone

Flour 100%  75% 00/25% KASL
Water 63%
IDY .4%
Salt 1.72%

tf .08

Proof yeast in water for 10 minutes, add to other ingredients and mix in KA for 9 minutes. Room temp rise for 1 hour, punch down, fold, divide into balls and then into the fridge for 2 days. Rise on counter for 2 hours and bake.

The DiFara clone was great! Very close to a Neapolitan. The Lehman was just good but still better than a 500 f version.

I still need a bit more heat on the bottom but my Bayou kit will be here soon and Im sure that will solve the problem.

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline ebpizza

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2007, 08:22:43 PM »
what is tf ?

Offline abatardi

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Re: 2Stone Neopolitian questions
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2007, 10:38:03 PM »
thickness factor
Make me a bicycle CLOWN!