Author Topic: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit  (Read 4636 times)

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Offline Abouna

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First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« on: October 20, 2007, 09:19:25 AM »
Hello all,

I frequent quite a few forums but none so specified as pizza!  I'm glad I found it.  Living in the middle of Iowa is a dreadful place for pizza.

I have a bit of an emergency, I need to produce 2 deep dish butter crust pizzas by tomorrow afternoon.  I'd like some direction on what recipes to use, I've had Malnati's and that's it.  It was good but a bit bland for me.  I'd like to modify it Detroit style with the cheese on top so it can spill over the edge and get fried and crispy.  I realize I may get lambasted for this heresy but well... ;D

I basically need a starting point for the crust.  I'm wanting medium thick/thin, light and very buttery/crispy, not flaky and not doughy.  Something akin to a tart crust.

Cheers.


Offline Boy Hits Car

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 04:15:55 PM »
One of our members says that this recipe if very close to what a Malnalti's Butter crust.

AP Flour                  100%
Water                 45%
Butter/Margarine   19%
Olive oil                4%
ADY                    0.75% or IDY at 0.5%
ThicknessFactor  = .125 - regular thickness

You can use the Deep dish calculator to make it as thin or thick as you like it and to fit your pans:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html

If you use unsalted butter, you might want to add 1-2% salt.

Read this post to make the dough: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5402.msg45627.html#msg45627
Might want to use butter to grease the pan.

Can't guarantee this will work, just summarizing the discussions on the forum about a dd butter crust.  Good luck.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 04:17:42 PM by Boy Hits Car »

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2007, 09:44:27 PM »
Hello all,

I frequent quite a few forums but none so specified as pizza!  I'm glad I found it.  Living in the middle of Iowa is a dreadful place for pizza.

I have a bit of an emergency, I need to produce 2 deep dish butter crust pizzas by tomorrow afternoon.  I'd like some direction on what recipes to use, I've had Malnati's and that's it.  It was good but a bit bland for me.  I'd like to modify it Detroit style with the cheese on top so it can spill over the edge and get fried and crispy.  I realize I may get lambasted for this heresy but well... ;D

I basically need a starting point for the crust.  I'm wanting medium thick/thin, light and very buttery/crispy, not flaky and not doughy.  Something akin to a tart crust.

Cheers.
Here you go.. This is a recipe that I use most often.

442 Grams Flour
7oz Water (110deg)
.85 tsp ADY
2.50 Tbs Olive Oil
4.75 Tbs Butter or Margarine

Kitchen Aid with dough hook instructions

Put Water, Yeast and Olive Oil into the mixing bowl stir and let sit for 5 min. Add the butter and flour and mix until a ball forms on speed 2. Let rest for 15 minutes then place in cooler for overnight rise.  Take out 2 hours in advance of panning.

When ready to cook grease a 14”x2” pan with butter flavored Crisco, Bottom only not the sides.
Flatten the dough into a 14” pan until the dough covers the bottom. Use fingers from the top to pinch up the sides about all the way up the pan and about  3/16” thick.  Layer ½ lb of sliced Mozzarella and ½ lb sliced Provolone cheese. Add sauce and toppings. Top off with a lite dusting of Parmesan Cheese.

Bake on medium rack in a preheated oven at 450F. Bake for 20 minutes or more.

If making same day dough, let dough rise 2 times.

The sauce is easy but i'm not sure you have enough time to make it.

1 28oz can 6in1 Crushed Tomatoes Drained
1 Tbsp Olive Oil
2 Cloves Garlic (Crushed)
½ Tsp Oregano
½ Tsp Basil
½ Tsp Marjoram
½ Tsp Onion Powder
¼ Tsp Kosher Salt

Mix and let sit in fridge overnight

Good luck and keep us posted
Goose
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 09:47:44 PM by goosen1 »
Arguing with a truckdriver is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.. After a while.... you realize the pig enjoys it!!!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 10:18:00 PM »
Goose,

Is the water by weight or by volume? I noticed no salt in the dough recipe. Does that mean the butter or margarine is salted? Finally, is your 14" x 2" pan straight sided?

Peter
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 10:33:13 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2007, 10:20:34 PM »
Goose,

Is the water by weight or by volume?

Peter

Weight, I scale the flour and water... The rest i measure by volume.

Goose
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2007, 10:35:52 PM »
Goose,

Thanks.

While you were posting, I edited my last post to add a couple more questions.

Peter

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2007, 10:41:48 PM »
Goose,

Is the water by weight or by volume? I noticed no salt in the dough recipe. Does that mean the butter or margarine is salted? Finally, is your 14" x 2" pan straight sided?

Peter

LOL.. I guess we both have nothing to do tonight!! 

Yes.. I use salted butter or margarine in this recipe. I have noticed that when I use margarine it gives off more of a buttery taste. The pan that I use is a straight sided pan.

Goose
Arguing with a truckdriver is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.. After a while.... you realize the pig enjoys it!!!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2007, 10:48:17 PM »
Goose,

Thank you. I was watching the Red Sox taking it to the Indians while I was analyzing your dough recipe.

Based on the information you provided, I calculated the baker’s percents and the thickness factor for your dough recipe. This is what your dough recipe looks like:

Flour (100%):
Water (44.8982%):
ADY (0.72692%):
Olive Oil (7.63574%):
Butter/Margarine (15.2467%):
Total (168.50756%):
442 g  |  15.59 oz | 0.97 lbs
198.45 g  |  7 oz | 0.44 lbs
3.21 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
33.75 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.5 tsp | 2.5 tbsp
67.39 g | 2.38 oz | 0.15 lbs | 4.75 tbsp | 0.3 cups
744.8 g | 26.27 oz | 1.64 lbs | TF = 0.113775
Note: Data is for 14” x 2” straight-sided pan with the dough pushed up the full 2” of the pan; use of butter is assumed.

Using the calculated thickness factor and the above baker’s percents, one can now use the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html to determine the amounts of ingredients to use for any pan size, pan depth, straight- or sloping-sided pan, and any dough depth. I didn't specify any bowl residue compensation factor, but normally I would use around 2% to compensate for minor dough losses.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 10:51:06 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2007, 10:54:53 PM »
Thanks Peter!!!

I think I will tinker with that tool... I need to make a few pizzas for tomorrow night.
Goose

ps.. Who's winning?? I'm not near the TV tonight.
Arguing with a truckdriver is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.. After a while.... you realize the pig enjoys it!!!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2007, 10:59:02 PM »
Who's winning?? I'm not near the TV tonight.

Goose,

Red Sox, 10-2, top of the 7th.

Peter


Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2007, 11:15:01 PM »
Oh Yeah!!!

I like this dough tool!!!  Now I have the formulation for my 16" 14" 12" 10" and 9" pans

Thanks Peter!!!

Goose
Arguing with a truckdriver is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.. After a while.... you realize the pig enjoys it!!!!

Offline Abouna

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2007, 11:43:17 PM »
Thanks a lot fellas, I will definitely pot this to good use.  On another note, my deadline is now indeterminate, probably sometime later this week, which will be nice so I don't have to rush.  Thought the wife wanted pizza for B-day but now wants steave au poivre which is a piece of cake to make so thats what I'll be doing tomorrow.

Cheers.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2007, 11:47:58 PM »
Goose,

I'm glad you like the tool.

For future reference, you may want to know how I converted your recipe to a form that could be used in the tool.

First, I converted all of your volume measurements to weights.

Second, I calculated the baker's percents for all of the ingredients other than the flour (which is always 100%) based on their weights relative to the weight of flour.

Third, I plugged in all of the baker's percents, and your pan size (diameter), pan depth, and the depth of dough (which was the same as the depth of your pan) into the tool.

Fourth, I kept on playing around with the numbers in the thickness factor box until all the quantities at the bottom of the page were the same as I got in the first step. I usually start with a thickness factor of 0.11 because that is usually fairly close to the number I am looking for for the deep-dish. With the thickness factor in hand, it then becomes easy to come up with the numbers for any other type or size pan, as you discovered.

Peter

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2007, 11:54:18 PM »
Thanks Peter,

Your last post answered my question on converting the volumes. I have a Chicago Style Thin Crust I wanted to change over from volumes to bakers percentages.

Goose
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2007, 12:03:44 AM »
I have a Chicago Style Thin Crust I wanted to change over from volumes to bakers percentages.

Goose,

Depending on the ingredients you are using for the Chicago style thin crust, you should use the Lehmann dough calculating tool or the enhanced dough calculating tool. If you need help converting the volume measurements to weights, let me know.

Peter

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2007, 12:41:12 AM »
Goose,

Depending on the ingredients you are using for the Chicago style thin crust, you should use the Lehmann dough calculating tool or the enhanced dough calculating tool. If you need help converting the volume measurements to weights, let me know.

Peter
I think I have this figured out. This is what I figured out on the enhanced dough calculating tool.

Here is my South Side Thin Crust

Flour (100%):                                     459.87 g  |  16.22 oz | 1.01 lbs
Water (56%):                                     257.53 g  |  9.08 oz | 0.57 lbs
ADY (.85%):                           3.91 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.03 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (.60%):                            2.76 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.57 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
Olive Oil (9%):                    41.39 g | 1.46 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.2 tsp | 3.07 tbsp
Sugar (.9%):                           4.14 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
Dry Non-Fat Milk (.95%):           4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 3.04 tsp | 1.01 tbsp
Total (168.3%):                            773.96 g | 27.3 oz | 1.71 lbs | TF = N/A

Mix water, yeast and sugar, let work for 5 minutes. Add powder milk, oil then flour. Mix for approx. 5 minutes. Place in an oiled bowl, cover and let rise for at least 1 ½ hours. Punch down and divide the dough into 3 separate balls at 257.98 grams each. Then roll out to a 14" Diameter.

Add sauce and toppings then bake at 475-500 for 8-10 minutes

Goose
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 12:48:48 AM by goosen1 »
Arguing with a truckdriver is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.. After a while.... you realize the pig enjoys it!!!!

Offline foodblogger

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2007, 07:12:03 AM »
Quote
I frequent quite a few forums but none so specified as pizza!  I'm glad I found it.  Living in the middle of Iowa is a dreadful place for pizza.

True dat!
I grew up in the middle of Iowa.  Of course those were the days before the internet so I was living in a vacuum of bad pizza with very few resources to help.  The experience made me a better cook.  Now anytime I eat something delicious I always try to figure out how to make it so that if I am stuck in the middle of Iowa again someday I will still be able to eat great food.  Good luck with your pizza.

Offline BTB

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2007, 08:53:25 AM »
Goose, your South side thin crust recipe looks interesting as I've enjoyed many a thin crust pizza on Chicago's South side for many years (prior to moving to Florida).  I'm trying to convert the recipe to a 12" size but am uncertain how to figure it out on the pizza dough tool without the thickness factor.  Any estimate what it might be?  Also, which non-fat dry milk did you use?

What is your best guess as to which pizzeria this recipe gets the closest to?  There are soooo many good thin crust pizza places on Chicago's South side and I miss them dearly (Fox's, Palemo's, Vito & Nicks, Home Run Inn, Ed & Joe's, Aurelio's, etc.).                                  --BTB

Offline goosen1

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2007, 10:07:29 AM »
Hi BTB,

I use carnation dry milk in this recipe. When I figured the formulation out with this dough, I converted the recipe by weight. I guesstimate, LOL  The thickness is around 1/16" thick. Now for taste.. That's real hard to say because my sauce is not like anyones but... I took a bite of the crust once that had a bit of the pepperoni grease on it and I had small vision of Aurelio's.. If that were the case, I wish I had the sauce recipe for that!!!

Goose
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First post: Emergency help please, modified Chicago/Detroit
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2007, 10:11:11 AM »
BTB,

The calculation of the thickness factor in this case is fairly straightforward. Goose uses a 257.98 gram dough ball for a 14” pizza. To get the thickness factor, you first convert the dough ball weight to ounces. In this case, that is 257.98 grams divided by 28.35 (one ounce equals 28.35 grams), which equals 9.0998236. To calculate the thickness factor, you divide 9.0998236 by Pi (3.14159) times the radius (R/2 = 14”/2 = 7”) squared, or 3.14159 x 7 x 7 = 153.93791. That calculation gives us the thickness factor of 0.0591135 (9.0998236/153.93791 = 0.0591135). I carried the numbers out to several decimal places in case you want to do the math using your own calculator. Now, if you enter the above thickness factor into the enhanced dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, along with the desired pizza size in your case (12”) and the baker’s percents that Goose came up with, you should get the following for one dough ball:

Flour (100%):
Water (56%):
ADY (0.85%):
Salt (0.6%):
Olive Oil (9%):
Sugar (0.9%):
Dry Non-Fat Milk (0.95%):
Total (168.3%):
112.62 g  |  3.97 oz | 0.25 lbs
63.07 g  |  2.22 oz | 0.14 lbs
0.96 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
0.68 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.12 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
10.14 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.25 tsp | 0.75 tbsp
1.01 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
1.07 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
189.54 g | 6.69 oz | 0.42 lbs | TF = 0.059114

Most home pizza makers who use dry nonfat milk usually use a supermarket dry nonfat milk, which is usually a Carnation’s or comparable brand. Professional pizza operators who use dry nonfat milk in their dough formulations usually use a commercial high-heat baker’s grade version. The difference in the above formulation is the amount of the product to use.

Goose’s numbers look about right for a thin Chicago style. I will also be interested in his comments on the pizza places you mentioned.

Peter