Papa John's Pizza

[Adam T]

Thanks Peter. With my numbers I was trying to create the above recipe just the same way you did here...

Flour (100%): Water (60.625%): IDY (1.5625%): Salt (2.46093%): Olive Oil (2.97618%): Sugar (5.27343%): Honey (4.62499%): Total (177.52303%):

453.6 g  |  16 oz | 1 lbs 274.99 g  |  9.7 oz | 0.61 lbs 7.09 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.35 tsp | 0.78 tbsp 11.16 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2 tsp | 0.67 tbsp 13.5 g | 0.48 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp 23.92 g | 0.84 oz | 0.05 lbs | 6 tsp | 2 tbsp 20.98 g | 0.74 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp 805.24 g | 28.4 oz | 1.78 lbs | TF = N/A

After figuring out the above I was going to resize it for my 14" perforated pan.

As for the .13 thickness factor I had read that a PJ pizza would be about a .13 TF. I assumed that .13 was what Randy's recipe was using. I'm not quite sure how Thickness Factor relates to actual thickness in inches (or mm) and wasn't sure if .13 was really thick or really thin.

Hopefully I'll be mixing a batch up tonight for Friday night pizza.

EDIT: After running the numbers it looks to me like Randy's original recipe has a Thickness Factor of .12555 (if I did it correctly.)

[Pete-zza]

Adam T,

My recollection is that Randy's recipe produces enough dough to make a single 16" pizza or two 12" pizzas. The thickness factor for the 16" pizza is equal to 28.40368/(3.14159 x 8 x 8) = 0.1412684. For the 12" size, the thickness factor is (28.40368/2)/(3.14159 x 6 x 6) = 0.1255719. So, your calculation is correct for the 12" size.

I was the one who suggested 0.13, and felt that a 14" pizza would be a good size to test with that thickness factor. The 0.13 number is based on analyzing PJ nutrition data and ingredients lists, along with other information on the amount of sauce and cheese typically used by PJ. Analyzing that kind of data is not easy (the data is for a baked pizza, not an unbaked one), so it is possible that I am off on the thickness factor. That is one of the reasons why I was hoping that someone who is very familiar with the PJ pizzas would try the 0.13 number and tell us if it is in the ballpark. Knowing the dough ball weight for a 14" PJ dough would, of course, tell us the thickness factor actually used by PJ.

My analysis to date, if correct, also suggests that there is more oil in the dough than sugar, which is the reverse in Randy's recipe (combined sugar and honey). I also know that PJ does not use honey. That piece of information comes from PJ itself in response to inquiries from vegans. I am also quite certain that PJ's does not use raw sugar. It would be too expensive for commercial applications. PJ also cannot be using 1.56% ADY. According to filings by PJ with the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission) over several years, the PJ dough is made in commissaries and delivered to PJ stores twice a week. The only way that PJ can do that is to use very small amounts of yeast and exercise tight control over the refrigeration of the dough balls at every stage of the process, from the point of production to the point of use in the stores. Of course, in a home setting, you are free to use higher amounts of yeast, as well as honey and raw sugar. In fact, if I were designing a PJ clone dough for home application, it would be different from the doughs made by PJ in its commissaries. I believe the quality of the PJ clone is likely to be better than the real thing. Of course, that doesn't mean that PJ fans will like the home version better. People get conditioned to their favorite pizzas and don't easily migrate to clones, even if they are better, which of course is a subjective matter.

Peter

[eric22]

120 degrees water for the yeast is not going to kill the yeast?

i did some research and most sites say yeast yeast starts dying at that heat.

most recommend 110-115 range. 

[Pete-zza]

120 degrees water for the yeast is not going to kill the yeast?

i did some research and most sites say yeast yeast starts dying at that heat.

most recommend 110-115 range. 

eric22,

You might want to read the series of Replies 7-13 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6163.msg53030.html#msg53030.

Peter

[candyman]

My 50# bag of flour is going fast... been making all the different formulas on here and decided to try this one... it came out great!  I used it to make some stromboli tonight... here are some pics.  Excellent taste.. nice texture with just a hint of sweetness.

Thank you Randy for the recipe.

Joe

[torontonian]

Having enjoyed the result with Pete-zza's PJ clone, I decided to give Randy's original formulation a go.

Using the dough tool, I created a formula for 3x 14" dough balls. The tool indicated 4.98t of IDY.

I made the dough and this morning I woke up to see that they had exploded out of their containers in the fridge into masses the size of basketballs 

I'm guessing I made a mistake with the yeast amount.

Re-reading the original recipe if specifies SAF Perfect Rise yeast. (not a product I've seen around here) I used IDY, as some of Peter's follow-on formulations say IDY. I wonder if the original quantity was supposed to be ADY.

Can someone confirm if its ADY or IDY (or some other yeast variety) in the quantity? Did I make a mistake elsewhere?

Thanks,
Josh

[Pete-zza]

Josh,

I am away from my home base at the moment and don't have access to my latest baker's percent version of Randy's recipe but the use of IDY is correct and your amount of IDY looks to be OK. With almost 5 teaspoons of IDY and 120 degrees F water, you will get substantial and rapid dough expansion. It's just the nature of the dough chemistry. If your storage containers are not big enough to contain the dough under the circumstances, it is quite likely that you will see the lids blown off. Even if your containers have lids with small holes in them to allow release of built up gasses, the force of the gas production can be so powerful as to still blow the lids off.

Peter

[torontonian]

Thanks Peter for confirming 5tsp of IDY is accurate for 3 fourteen inch dough balls.

Perhaps my water was >120 degrees, and that is the culprit then. I use a standard oven temperature gauge (the kind you stick in a turkey) to measure running water from the tap. I saw it go 117-118-119 and stopped there. If I had kept the thermometer in place, the resting temperature may have indeed been higher.

I will try this again, since I enjoyed Peter's PJ dough so much. The alcohol smell when I pulled these "basketballs" out of the containers was very strong. I didn't risk using these. Plus they had dried out on top.

Going to try again and watch the water temp more closely.

-- Josh