Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 504246 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22442
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1080 on: January 10, 2014, 07:49:20 AM »
Julian,

The amount of oil, and also the type, tend to be matters of personal taste and preference, although increases in the amount of oil should increase the extensibility (stretchiness) of the dough and maybe make the finished crust and crumb a bit more tender. However, for the NY style you perhaps don't want to go beyond about 3% oil. As for the type of oil, as best I can tell, most professionals who specialize in the New York style tend to use soybean oil, mainly because of the low cost although some may use a pomace olive oil as a low-cost olive oil option. It is also possible to use a blend of oils, such as olive oil and soybean or canola oil.

My advice is to play around with different possibilities until you find your personal sweet spot.

Peter 


Offline JulianN

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
  • Location: Kansas City, MO
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1081 on: January 10, 2014, 12:29:56 PM »
Thanks Pete.

Julian

Offline JulianN

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
  • Location: Kansas City, MO
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1082 on: January 10, 2014, 08:31:04 PM »
I made some dough about an hour ago using the food processor. I took the dough out of the bowl after it had gone around the bowl about two times. It was very soft and passed the "Lehmann pull test", it also was very easy to ball.

Thanks for the help, Pete,
Julian

Offline Henderson939

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17
  • Location: Virginia
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1083 on: January 25, 2014, 09:08:29 AM »
My NY pizza attempts keep getting better, but I have a question about the dough.  I am using the recipe in response 31 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg5442.html#msg5442.  When I take the dough out the next day, it seems wetter than it should (still a novice, so I could be wrong).  I have to use a lot of semilna/HG mix flour to stretch it out.  Should I be lowering the hydration rate, currently 62%?

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 792
  • Location: Northridge, CA
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1084 on: January 25, 2014, 10:49:42 AM »
63% shouldn't be that "wet", but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Under normal circumstances you'll have to use bench flour when you take the dough out of the bowl; that's standard operating procedure.  You don't want a whole lot of excess flour on the dough when you put it into the oven. 

I've handled doughs with 85% hydration.  It takes a little more experience, but once you're past the "fear factor" of sticky, squirrely dough, you'll think that 63% is drier than a cat's behind
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 362
  • Location: Finland
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1085 on: May 04, 2014, 03:52:15 PM »
My NY pizza attempts keep getting better, but I have a question about the dough.  I am using the recipe in response 31 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg5442.html#msg5442. When I take the dough out the next day, it seems wetter than it should (still a novice, so I could be wrong). I have to use a lot of semilna/HG mix flour to stretch it out.  Should I be lowering the hydration rate, currently 62%?

Are you sure that the dough isnt over fermented ? It usually goes wet very quickly.

Offline tharsis

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1086 on: June 07, 2014, 01:45:44 PM »
Hello! I have some comments regarding the 18" recipe in post #105.

I tried three times to make that recipe last night, but the dough ball ended up too hard to be hand knead. I thought I made a mistake, as recipes that call for similar hydration come out wonderfully, so I repeated the process twice more--to the same result.

I use the recipe on the first post regularly, usually with a little less yeast, and it comes out moist, smooth, and easily malleable by hand.

The recipe on the 105th post comes out dry, rock hard, and near impossible to be formed by hand.

Does the viscosity of near finished dough increase with the size/weight of the dough ball, ie does it get exponentially more difficult to manipulate in relation to its size?

I understand 1 cup of flour doesn't always weigh the same as another (how firmly it's packed, settled, and leveled), so does the act of measuring 3.75 cups cause enough error to account for this? If so I'll just go by grams and use my digital scale.

Does that 2% variation in moisture make that much of a difference?

I don't use a kitchenaid, but I've been kneading dough by hand for 20 years and have never had this hard of a time.

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11384
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1087 on: June 07, 2014, 01:49:42 PM »
no,yes,yes. :chef:

CB
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline tharsis

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1088 on: June 07, 2014, 01:59:21 PM »

Online jvp123

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 624
  • Location: Los Angeles, California
  • Learning and loving it!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1089 on: August 16, 2014, 12:59:59 PM »
One of the things I have been trying to accomplish lately is to devise a recipe and technique for making a same-day Lehmann dough that would 1) use a natural preferment, 2) be fermented at room temperature, 3) use a high hydration level (to achieve an open and airy crust), 4) be easy to handle and shape, and 5) yield a crust flavor equal to or better than a Lehmann crust made from a 24-hour retarded dough (at a minimum). To set the bar even higher, I decided that I also wanted anyone practicing the recipe to be able to start the dough in the morning--for example, before leaving for work--and to shape, dress and bake the pizza that evening about 9-10 hours later, without anyone having to touch the dough at all during the entire fermentation/rise time. As a further timesaving measure, I also decided that I didn’t want to use any autolyse or similar rest periods, no matter how brief. And I didn’t want anyone, including me, to have to get up at 3:00 AM to feed the preferment so that it would be ready to go at dough making time a few hours later. An important aspect of what I wanted to achieve was that the preferment would have to be readied starting the night before.

To achieve the above goals, I decided to use my basic preferment to naturally leaven the final dough as usual, but instead of using it in its normal liquid, batter-like state, I would convert it to a much thicker consistency--much like a thick, soft, wet dough--and let it ferment and ripen overnight before incorporating it the following morning, along with all of the other ingredients, into the basic Lehmann dough formulation. The thickened preferment would be similar to what is often referred to a chef or a pate fermentee (“old dough”) but, unlike a chef or pate fermentee, it would be “new” dough rather than “old” dough and it would contain no salt. For purposes of this post, I will simply refer to it as a “dough preferment” for lack of a better term.

To prepare the dough preferment, the evening before I planned to make the Lehmann dough I took 1/2 cup of my natural batter-like preferment, which I had refreshed earlier in the day with flour and warm water (a process that took about 3 hours after taking it out of the refrigerator), and combined it with the following: 3 ounces of flour (1/4 c. plus 7 t.) and 2 1/2 ounces of warm water (1/4 c., at 85-90 degrees F). After thoroughly mixing these ingredients together in a bowl to achieve a somewhat thick, dough-like consistency, I lightly covered the bowl (I used a loose fitting lid but a towel can also be used) and set it on my countertop to allow the dough preferment to ferment and ripen overnight so that it would be ready to use by morning.

By the next morning, about 10 hours later, the dough preferment had almost tripled in volume—a clear indication that, at least at the outset, my basic preferment had sufficient leavening power. One of my concerns at this point was that the dough preferment may have overrisen and weakened during the night because of the 10 hour rise (at about 75 degrees F) and its substantial volume expansion. However, I speculated that, even if such were the case, the byproducts of fermentation that contribute to crust flavor would still be there and, once I incorporated the dough preferment into the basic Lehmann dough recipe, as weak as it might be, the resulting dough would ferment and rise at a good slow pace throughout the day and be ready to be used 9-10 hours thereafter without fear of overfermentation. Whether my analysis was correct or not, the dough seemed to concur with my analysis--at least judging from the outcome as described below.

For the Lehmann dough recipe, I decided to use the same basic recipe (for a 16-inch skin) as set forth originally in Reply #151 (and indirectly in Reply #161) but modified in a few respects to account for the substitution of the dough preferment for the basic liquid preferment called for in the recipe. I decided to use the dough preferment in an amount equal to 20% by weight of flour--a figure I borrowed from fellow member Bakerboy’s work with pate fermentee. For my dough preferment, this came to about 3 1/2 tablespoons (about 2.32 ounces.). (I chose to discard whatever dough preferment I would not need for the recipe, although it could have been used to make more dough or for other sourdough baking purposes.)

To spare readers having to go back to look for the basic recipe, the recipe as I modified it for this experiment was as follows:

100%, KASL high-gluten flour, 11.60 oz. (2 1/2 c. plus 3 T. plus 1 t.)
63%, Water, 7.00 oz. (7/8 c., temp. adjusted to get a finished dough temp. of around 80 degrees F but not adjusted for dough preferment hydration)
1.75%, Salt, 0.203 oz. (about 1 t.)
1%, Olive oil, 0.12 oz. (a bit less than 3/4 t.)
20%, Dough Preferment, 2.32 oz. (about 3 1/2 T.)
Finished dough ball weight: 21 oz. (TF = 0.105)
Finished dough temperature: 77.8 degrees F

The processing of the Lehmann dough was the same as previously described in Reply #161 except that I had to make a few minor adjustments to the amount of flour (accounted for in the above recipe) during kneading to compensate for the hydration level of the dough preferment, which was wetter than the dough itself. When the dough was fully kneaded, I shaped it into a round, smooth ball, oiled it very lightly, flattened it into a disk, placed it in a round, transparent, straight-sided, 6-inch diameter Rubbermaid container (see the first photo below), covered the container with a loose fitting lid, and set it on my kitchen countertop to ferment during the day. I intentionally chose the container I selected because of its round shape (the same shape as a pizza skin), and because its straight sides and transparency would allow me to see the dough rise and accurately measure the degree of its volume expansion (note the use in the first photo of a rubber band to mark the starting level of the dough).

For the first four hours that the container of dough sat on my countertop, there was no discernible difference in the dough, even at a room temperature of around 78 degrees F. The dough just sat there. Then, very gradually, almost imperceptibly, the dough started to expand. And by about 5 or 6 hours later, the dough had about doubled in volume, with the bulk of the rise having taken place in the final couple of hours. At that point in its destination, the dough was soft and somewhat flabby looking, giving no palpable signs that success was to be achieved. At the expiration of the 9-10 hour period, I put the dough on my work surface and dusted it with bench flour in preparation for shaping and stretching the dough into a skin. The dough was cool to the touch but not wet or sticky--as was my last effort--and it had a good, substantive feel to it. I took that to be a good sign.

Very surprisingly, despite its rather anemic appearance throughout the entire fermentation period, the dough handled exceptionally well. Like many of the Lehmann NY style doughs I have made, the dough was quite extensible but I had no difficulty whatsoever in shaping and stretching it out to the 16-inch size that I would use on my 16-inch pizza screen. I was very happy with the dough. Once the dough had been stretched to the 16-inch size and placed on the pizza screen, it was dressed in a simple pepperoni style. In a departure from the way I last baked the Lehmann pizza, this time I placed the pizza screen with the dressed pizza on it directly onto my pizza stone, which I had placed on the bottom oven rack position and preheated to a temperature of about 500-550 degrees F for about an hour. After about 5 minutes of bake time, I removed the pizza from the screen and slid it directly onto the pizza stone for an additional couple of minutes to achieve additional bottom crust browning. This was followed by an additional minute or so of baking on the upper oven rack position, just under the broiler element, which I had turned on about 3 minutes into the baking process.

The last two photos show the finished product. I am pleased to report that the pizza was one of the best Lehmann pizzas I have made, with a crust as good as any I have made in my many experiments with the Lehmann dough--whether based on retardation (refrigeration) or not. The crust was chewy yet soft and tender and with a nice pleasant flavor. For one of the few times, I even got the rim to be a normal NY street size :). But what pleases me most is that I now believe, for the first time, that it is possible to make a high quality same-day Lehmann dough and pizza without having to subject the dough itself to a period of overnight retardation. Rather, the heavy lifting is put on the back of the preferment. Of course, quality often comes at a price and, in this case, it means having to make or reconstitute a preferment and take care of it and learn its individualistic, often unpredictable, behavior pattern and put it to greatest use.

Peter


Peter,
I've examined your list of Lehmann (style?) recipes and couldn't find if there's a recipe that you know of that is similar to the one above, but uses a normally active culture and doesn't HAVE to proof in a single day? Or does it even matter for the taste if one does 48 hours vs. 24 hours?  I am not looking for an overtly sour taste, but I also don't necessarily need to speed up my proofing if going longer will be better.  I know for CFs longer time definitely helps with flavor. 
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
Jeff


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22442
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1090 on: August 16, 2014, 02:41:09 PM »

Peter,
I've examined your list of Lehmann (style?) recipes and couldn't find if there's a recipe that you know of that is similar to the one above, but uses a normally active culture and doesn't HAVE to proof in a single day? Or does it even matter for the taste if one does 48 hours vs. 24 hours?  I am not looking for an overtly sour taste, but I also don't necessarily need to speed up my proofing if going longer will be better.  I know for CFs longer time definitely helps with flavor. 
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
Jeff,

If you look at the Lehmann roadmap at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1453.msg13193#msg13193, you will see all of the versions of the Lehmann NY style dough formulations that used a natural starter. These versions are identified as Replies 132, 151, 161, 165 and 175. Of these versions, the one that seems to be closest to what you are looking for is at Reply 151 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg11774#msg11774. However, if you wish to make changes, I gave an example of how to do this in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6969.msg59839#msg59839.

Back when I did my original work on the Lehmann NY style doughs using natural starters, in 2005, the preferment dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment-calculator.html did not exist. So, using that tool today should produce more accurate results than when I made the different Lehmann NY style doughs with natural starters. Looking back at what I did in 2005 seems like ancient history. But the basic principles remain intact.

Peter


Offline amooola

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: fl
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1091 on: October 10, 2014, 04:52:18 PM »
I desperately need help! I made the Lehmann dough the first time and it was great at 12 hours of cold ferment and even at 48 hours. At 72, it wasn't easy to work with. I made another batch last night using IDY (first time I used ADY) and after ~14 hours of cold-fermentation and 2 hours at room temp, it has over risen, it stretched to size by simply removing from the dough-proofing box to my prep table and it is far too chewy, not crispy and I also can't seem to get a rim/crust as the dough stretches way too quick and the crust sort of disappears.

I will make another batch tonight using ADY or maybe some compressed yeast if I can locate some quickly enough. Is there really a huge different in the finished product when using compressed yeast vs ADY?

My husband and I are opening a restaurant. Our menu is pizza, wings, subs, cheesesteaks, salads and burgers. His father owned a similar restaurant when my husband was growing up and he worked the grill/fryers for years so the wings, subs, cheesesteaks, etc are all amazing. They had a gentlemen that came in daily, made the dough, rolled it into pans (I guess they pan-proofed?) and they baked the pizzas directly in the pans. All they had to do was pull the pan out of the cooler, add sauce, cheese and toppings and voila, great pizza!

I am trying to get a good recipe for the restaurant and I can't seem to get anything that's working well. I am also very confused about dough ball sizes, how long I can keep the dough at room temp and how I can go about keeping track of my dough ball inventory without wasting a ton of dough.

Are there are any fool proof recipes I can try? I am trying to achieve a NY style pizza (but with a slightly thicker crust that can hold toppings).

I have been reading through the forums for days and I am trying to learn as much as  I can. Making a pizza in a commercial kitchen is completely different than making one at home.

I thank you all in advance for any help you may be able to give! Thanks!

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 792
  • Location: Northridge, CA
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1092 on: October 10, 2014, 08:17:57 PM »
How much IDY are you using and what's your refrigerator's temperature?  What hydration did you use?  Thickness factor (which would determine the dough ball size)? Is there any logistical reason why you need to go beyond 48 hours?

It's hard for a "doctor" to help you if you're not adequately explaining your current procedure thoroughly.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline amooola

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: fl
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1093 on: October 10, 2014, 09:06:37 PM »
How much IDY are you using and what's your refrigerator's temperature?  What hydration did you use?  Thickness factor (which would determine the dough ball size)? Is there any logistical reason why you need to go beyond 48 hours?

It's hard for a "doctor" to help you if you're not adequately explaining your current procedure thoroughly.

Hello, I'm sorry if I am not properly explaining myself. I am new to the forum and pretty new to commercial pizza making. I've only made home pizza and I've never taking dough ball sizes, thickness factors, etc into consideration. Reading through this forum has helped me a bit but I am still lost!

These are the baker's percentages I used:

100% high gluten flour (All Trumps)
58% hydration (used around 62% last time and the dough was too wet)
1.5% salt
1 % sugar
1.0% oil
0.6% IDY

I followed Tom Lehmann's directions. My cooler temp is a steady 36 degrees. The room temp in here is ~76 give or take 2 degrees.

I tried 6.5 oz balls for small (8") but they stretched too far and made 10" pizzas. I don't need to go beyond 48, I actually wouldn't mind making dough nightly that would be ready for use by morning. I had left over dough balls so I figured I'd see how they were at the 72 hour mark, just for experimental purposes.

Thanks for the response!

-Amal
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 09:08:39 PM by amooola »

Offline vtsteve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Vermont, USA
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1094 on: October 11, 2014, 12:50:44 AM »
You used too much yeast, or your dough was too warm off the mixer. For a given weight, IDY is the most 'potent' - fresh yeast has a lot of water weight, and ADY has a lot of dead cells; IDY is almost all dried, intact yeast, ready to ferment when the water hits it. If your first Lehmann dough used ADY at 0.6%, you should use 0.4% IDY, or 1.1% compressed fresh, to get the same level of fermentation. Do you measure the temperature of the dough when it's done mixing? Are you balling the doughs first, so they'll cool more quickly? Yeast amount and dough temperature are the heart of dough management.

Did you mix that last IDY batch with hot water also? You should room temperature (or cooler) water for both fresh and IDY mixes.

For ADY, dissolve the yeast in 5x the yeast's weight of 115 degree water; the rest of the mix water should be cold from the tap.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 01:02:49 AM by vtsteve »

Offline Zaroh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Canada
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1095 on: November 06, 2014, 04:18:08 PM »
Hello everyone!

I followed Tom Lehmann's NY recipe, and it was only my 2nd time (give or take) making something that even slightly resembled a pizza.

I ran into a couple problems. Right now the biggest peel and pizza stone I have are around 13", and I think I may have made too much dough. I ended up with really really thick dough that if I stretched out anymore, wouldn't fit on the stone or the peel.

My dough itself was alright. It was pretty stretchy, not as much as I've seen in people's videos stretching dough, but it was still fairly elastic enough. The one issue though is I re-rolled it into a doughball after stretching it once and messing it up, and it lost a lot of its elasticity. I also ended up adding a lot more flour than just the 2 1/2 cups, because as I was hand-kneading it I kept feeling it get sticky and slightly wet.

So I the questions I have are:

1. Does anyone have any recommendations/portions for a slightly smaller amount of dough, one that would be moderately thin on a 13" pizza stone?
2. Would there be any obvious or apparent reason why my dough wasn't as elastic as I'd hoped? I really had to put a fair amount of force and body weight to even stretch it out as much as I did.

I've attached a picture of my "disaster" although I'm actually still happy I made it. The taste was a little light and bland, but I think that's more to do with the pepperoni, tomatoes and cheese I used. The dough/bread itself smelled and tasted amazing.

Offline vtsteve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Vermont, USA
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1096 on: November 07, 2014, 01:06:19 AM »
If you use the dough calculator -- http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html -- it's very easy to change the dough amount to yield a desired thickness. The number you change is the 'thickness factor', which is actually the weight of dough (in ounces) per square inch of pizza skin.

This is a pretty typical NY-style formula, two balls for 13" pies at a nice thickness factor (0.08):

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
IDY (0.3%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (1.5%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (164.8%):
Single Ball:
372.64 g  |  13.14 oz
223.59 g
1.12 g
7.45 g
5.59 g
3.73 g
614.12 g | TF = 0.0816 (includes 2% bowl residue)
307.06 g | 10.83 oz

Use a scale, weigh your ingredients. It removes *so* much of the guesswork. I only left the ingredient gram weights in the table; I work in grams. If you're dead-set on volume measures, at least you'll get some experience with the calculator. >:D

Avoid the excessive use of bench flour - it throws off the formula hydration (but if you don't weigh the ingredients, you're only guessing anyway). I do everything up to rounding the finished doughballs right in the bowl, so I don't need to use *any* bench flour. If it sticks to your hands, scrape it back into the bowl and keep on mixing.  :)

The quality you're seeking in your dough is 'extensibility', you want the dough to open and not spring back. Your problem was too *much* elasticity (think about trying to stretch a strong rubber band). The best ways to build too much elasticity are... too much bench flour, and balling (or reballing), and not giving the dough time to relax before you attempt to open it.

Offline Zaroh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Canada
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1097 on: November 07, 2014, 07:28:48 AM »
Great, thank you vsteve! I just prepared another dough ball using a scale accurate to the nearest tenth of a gram. All measured to the T.

The dough was pretty darn sticky, but I took your advice and just scraped it off and mixed it back in. Letting it sit right now and I'll probably post the results tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks again for the advice/help, I really do appreciate it  :).

Offline vtsteve

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Vermont, USA
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1098 on: November 07, 2014, 09:19:26 AM »
 :chef:

According to TXCraig1's yeast prediction table -- http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26831.msg285982.html#msg285982 -- the dough should be ready after 8 hours at 70 degrees. You should pop it into the fridge soon if you're planning to bake later than this afternoon. If you fridge it right after mixing, it's good for 2-4 days.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 09:27:55 AM by vtsteve »

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22442
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1099 on: November 07, 2014, 09:52:58 AM »
Zaroh,

I was planning to respond today to your earlier post but Steve (vtsteve) beat me to it. But he did a very nice job advising you.

One of the things I had planned to mention to you are a few posts that I often cite to members who are new to the Lehmann NY style dough. Those posts are the ones that begin at Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg19563/topicseen.html#msg19563. I was planning to convert the recipe to the 13" size, and to use a lower thickness factor, but Steve has already shown you how to do so. The thread in which Reply 8 appears also has other useful information on how to make, and bake, the Lehnann NY style pizzas.

Good luck.

Peter


 

pizzapan