Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 475660 times)

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Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #680 on: August 31, 2008, 01:43:47 PM »
I have a digital scale.


Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #681 on: August 31, 2008, 01:52:21 PM »
A few photos of a pie I made last night.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 01:54:26 PM by tdeane »

Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #682 on: August 31, 2008, 01:55:46 PM »
I'm having trouble uploading photos.

Offline Art

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #683 on: August 31, 2008, 01:57:47 PM »
I have a digital scale.

Me too. Here are are some pics of a 13" pie I made last week (63% hydration, 0.1 thickness factor, and doughball weight of 13.27 oz). In the second photo, you can almost see through the crust near the center. It was definitely thin. Do your pies resemble this at all? Do yours have as large an outer crust as mine? Art
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Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #684 on: August 31, 2008, 01:58:14 PM »
Now cooked.

Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #685 on: August 31, 2008, 02:04:06 PM »
My pies don't have a big outer rim. I model my pies after Joe's and Di Fara. It looks like you have a good oven. What is it? I'm just using my regular oven for now but i got the ok from my wife to buy a good pizza oven. I am think of buying the Nemco 6205 as it gets to 700 degrees which is what you want for NY style pies. Also, it will fit an 18" pie.

Offline Art

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #686 on: August 31, 2008, 02:14:32 PM »
My pies don't have a big outer rim. I model my pies after Joe's and Di Fara. It looks like you have a good oven. What is it? I'm just using my regular oven for now but i got the ok from my wife to buy a good pizza oven. I am think of buying the Nemco 6205 as it gets to 700 degrees which is what you want for NY style pies. Also, it will fit an 18" pie.


Believe it or not, I use a standard Kenmore electric. However, when I set it at the max (550) and let it preheat for an hour after it comes to temp, my oven thermometer usually reads just under 600. I normally cook on a Fibrament stone, but those pics are of a pie I did on a stone made by Engineered Ceramics. See this thread:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7071.0.html

I guess the weight difference between our pizzas can be attributed to the size of my cornicione, but yours really doesn't look that much smaller. btw, nice looking pizza.   Art
When baking, follow directions.  When cooking, go by your own taste.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #687 on: August 31, 2008, 02:19:10 PM »
Tdeane,

Before you dish out almost $900 for the Nemco, take a look at this thread here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4753.0.html

To build an LBE is much less expensive and yields excellent results. Especially if you're making NY style pies.

Just a thought.
Mike

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Offline ImageMan

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #688 on: August 31, 2008, 03:07:45 PM »
Is it a big deal if use AP flour instead of HG Flour?

Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #689 on: August 31, 2008, 03:28:47 PM »
Is it a big deal if use AP flour instead of HG Flour?

    No! People get way too hung up in the flour. You can make a good pie with 00, AP, HG and bread flour. I use Canadian bread flour.


Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #690 on: August 31, 2008, 03:33:11 PM »

I guess the weight difference between our pizzas can be attributed to the size of my cornicione, but yours really doesn't look that much smaller. btw, nice looking pizza.   Art


 You too. Looks like good NY style pie except most NY places don't have the big rim. What kind of cheese did you use?

Offline Art

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #691 on: August 31, 2008, 03:54:02 PM »
You too. Looks like good NY style pie except most NY places don't have the big rim. What kind of cheese did you use?

I use Polly-O whole milk 90% of the time. Sometimes I slice fresh mozz. Also, a generous topping of grated Parm Reggiano or Grana Padano after it comes out of the oven. 
When baking, follow directions.  When cooking, go by your own taste.

Offline ImageMan

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #692 on: August 31, 2008, 04:01:41 PM »
    No! People get way too hung up in the flour. You can make a good pie with 00, AP, HG and bread flour. I use Canadian bread flour.

Will the proportions be the same ?

Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #693 on: August 31, 2008, 04:11:44 PM »
I use Polly-O whole milk 90% of the time. Sometimes I slice fresh mozz. Also, a generous topping of grated Parm Reggiano or Grana Padano after it comes out of the oven. 
  Yeah, I do that too. Although lately I've been using pecorino romano. I kind of like the extra saltiness. I also put fresh basil on and sometimes a good drizzle of very good olive oil. I put olive oil on the pie before cooking as well(I love good olive oil). Lately  I've been using a combination of whole milk dry mozzarella and fresh mozz. You can see that in my photos. I feel like the dry mozz kind of protects the crust from the fresh mozz and it seems to stay crispier that way. I'm thinking of opening a pizza place in my home town of Vancouver. It's a pizza wasteland.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #694 on: September 01, 2008, 02:12:31 PM »
tdeane,

I don't recall the 20-24 ounce figure per se, but the dough recipe on which this thread is based is a home adaptation of the Lehmann NY style dough recipe given at http://www.pmq.com/recipe/view_recipe.php?id=52. That is a commercial recipe that is characteristic of the NY "street" style. I used a thickness factor of 0.10, which yields a dough weight for a 18" size pizza of roughly 25 ounces (3.14159 x 9 x 9 x 0.10 = 25.45 oz.). Some members have used lower thickness factors to make a pizza that is more characteristic of a thin "elite" NY style, like Patsy's, John's, etc. But, my emphasis was on the street style.

I agree that in a commercial setting a hydration of 65% would be too high. In my work on this thread, I referenced the 65% figure because it is in the range specified by the recipe mentioned above. However, I believe that it was member Evelyne Slomon, who wrote a pizza cookbook (The Pizza Book, Everything There Is to Know About the World's Greatest Pie), covering the period of the old NYC pizza masters, who specified a hydration of 65%--which apparently was what some of the early NYC pizza masters used. Most pizza operators are likely to use a hydration of around 56-58%, even for a hgh-gluten flour, because it is easier for workers to handle a lower hydration dough than a considerably higher hydration dough.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 03:58:16 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #695 on: September 01, 2008, 04:08:13 PM »
    No! People get way too hung up in the flour. You can make a good pie with 00, AP, HG and bread flour. I use Canadian bread flour.

tdeane,

If you are making a thin crust elite NY style pizza where there is a small amount of crust in every bite with respect to the rest of the pizza (sauce, cheese and toppings), I don't think that the flour type matters as much. However, for thicker crusts and for other pizza styles, such as thin and crispy, deep-dish and American, I think the type of flour used does matter. The early NYC pizza masters basically used all-purpose flour and bread flour. Later, when high-gluten flour became more readily available, many pizza operators went to that flour. Today, all three flours are used for the NY style.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #696 on: September 01, 2008, 04:21:06 PM »
I don't recall the 20-24 ounce figure per se,


tdeane,

I did a search and I have used the 20-24 ounce figure for a 16" pizza (see Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,562.msg5334/topicseen.html#msg5334), but not for an 18" pizza as best I can recall.

Peter

Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #697 on: September 01, 2008, 05:06:45 PM »
Pete,
     This thread is about NY style and for that i don't think the flour is that important.  You can make a good pie with all those types of flours. I like to use bread flour but I think most people get way too hung up on the flour. I think the differnce in the size of our dough balls is caused the the size of the rim. You have a big rim on your pies. I try to make a more NY style and don't have a big rim. The good NY places don't do that.  That could account for the big difference in the weight of our dough balls. My pies are thin but not too thin. They are crispy but have pull. I lived in Brooklyn for seven years and worked on Carmine St. in the Village. I ate at Joe's nearly every day for 2 years. That was the first great pizza I ever had. Their pies are quite thin. Thinner than you're typical NY street slice. Living in Brooklyn I went to Grimaldi's quite a few times but I always thought it was a little overrated but good. Patsy's was my favorite but I heard they have slipped. Sorry I am just rambling.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #698 on: September 01, 2008, 05:28:40 PM »
tdeane,

When I first volunteered to start this thread, I did not have a good idea as to what the NY street style of pizza was. However, over time, I was able to get a better feel, as I discussed, for example, at Reply 501 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg31557/topicseen.html#msg31557. As you will see from that post, I acknowledged that the rim of a typical NY street style pizza was smaller than I first understood, and also that our members have tended to prefer larger rims. Although I still favor larger rims, some of my later Lehmann NY style pizzas, for example, as described and shown at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.0.html, had somewhat smaller rims.

Peter

Offline tdeane

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #699 on: September 01, 2008, 05:49:17 PM »
I am going for a thin, crispy, foldable slice that has good pull to it. That's what is good about the good NY slices.  Both street slices and the coal oven pizzas do not have a big rim but, hey, to each his own. I would suggest leaving the oil out of your recipe though. It goes against the neapolitan tradition and I doubt any of the best NY places use oil in their dough.