Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 555347 times)

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Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #850 on: July 07, 2010, 12:27:21 AM »
?
-Jay


Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #851 on: July 07, 2010, 12:32:54 AM »
?
-Jay

Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #852 on: July 07, 2010, 12:43:52 AM »
I think I'm getting the hang of it.
-Jay

Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #853 on: July 13, 2010, 04:41:48 PM »
My latest with this dough recipe.
-Jay

Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #854 on: July 13, 2010, 04:50:02 PM »
#2
-Jay

Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #855 on: July 13, 2010, 04:51:22 PM »
#3
-Jay

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #856 on: July 13, 2010, 05:01:03 PM »
Jason,

Very nice job. What did you do differently this time?

Peter

Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #857 on: July 13, 2010, 06:15:13 PM »
Jason,

Very nice job. What did you do differently this time?

Peter
Thanks Peter,
I let the dough age in the fridge for 24 hours. In my previous attempt I made the dough, let it rise on the counter for an hour then made the pizza. This one was better than the first take. I also didn't pre-cook the sauce. I sifted the whole peeled tomato's added some spices in the FP, and let it rest for 24 hours too.
-Jay

scott123

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #858 on: July 13, 2010, 10:26:59 PM »
Jason, that cold ferment made a huge difference. Nice work.


Offline jever4321

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #859 on: July 13, 2010, 11:10:51 PM »
Jason, that cold ferment made a huge difference. Nice work.
Thanks, I love tinkering with this stuff. It's amazing how much fun it is when there are some success stories.
-Jay

Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #860 on: July 13, 2010, 11:21:14 PM »
Jason,

Your pie looks great.  :)  Good job!

Norma

Offline atx33

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #861 on: August 05, 2010, 11:55:54 AM »
Hello everyone, new poster here but I have been reading the forum for a while. I have started to get into making pizza about 6 months ago and have been duplicating Tom Lehmann's recipe/and Pete-zza's 1st initial post on this thread, except I have been using KABF. The dough has turned out very good (except a couple times the dough has been to elastic to work with, I think I am over kneading) but overall people really like it.

Well I am looking to take it to the next level so I finally shelled out and ordered KASL but was wanting to make some pizza for friends this weekend and was curious if there is anything I can add to help the protein %? One person I talked to mentioned adding semolina but I am uncertain if that will help.

I apologize if this is a dumb question.  ??? I really do appreciate any help.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #862 on: August 05, 2010, 03:16:03 PM »
I finally shelled out and ordered KASL but was wanting to make some pizza for friends this weekend and was curious if there is anything I can add to help the protein %? One person I talked to mentioned adding semolina but I am uncertain if that will help.

I apologize if this is a dumb question.

atx33,

That is not a dumb question at all. There are some pizza operators who do use semolina flour as part of their flour blend to make the NY style. However, that is not particularly common for that style. In your case, if you plan to use KASL, which is a high-gluten flour, I don't see any compelling need to supplement it with anything else. However, if you would like to try out a KASL/semolina blend, I would try using semolina at around 15-20% of the total blend. I have used semolina as part of flour blends and like it quite a bit even though it is not representative of the classic NY style.

Peter

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #863 on: August 07, 2010, 10:07:28 PM »
anyone using the bread flour from sams?  I have been using King Arthur Bread Flour, but decided to give the sam's a whirl - so far so good, but I have not done a thin NY style yet with it (did american style and it was good). 

Offline james456

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #864 on: August 08, 2010, 09:33:21 AM »
I'm venturing into NY style pizza making after successful attempts at mimicking a Papa Johns pizza via Pete's recipe.

I'm in the UK, so I don't have access to the KASL (14.2% protein content) flour common to most formulations. I've sourced two brands of flour with differing values of protein content (PC), one with 13.9% and the other with 14.8%.  I don't currently have access to VWG and from the brief search I've done, it may seem difficult to source.

In the meantime, I'd like to experiment with Tom Lehmann's NY style recipe using the above flours.

Here's where I need your expertise: what will I have to adjust for each of the two flours?

If it helps, I'll be baking these pizzas in a convectional oven with a max temp. of 250c/482f using unglazed quarry tiles as the pizza stone (I'm also in the process of sourcing Soapstone).
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 11:03:01 AM by james456 »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #865 on: August 08, 2010, 10:10:30 AM »
james456,

Can you tell us what brands of flours you are considering?

Peter

Offline james456

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #866 on: August 08, 2010, 11:02:46 AM »
Pete-zza,

Sure, the flours:

Brand: Sainsbury's Very Strong Canadian Bread Flour, Taste the Difference 1kg
Link:http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/frameset/redirect.jsp;GROSESSIONID=MpFClsqLTy3tnMfywWxmysmtF1T18XvHvNLZb5GPHSLJ3zRrVnTh!-339279265!-1745459902?bmForm=deep_link_groceries_search_javascript&bmFormID=1281279334006&bmUID=1281279334006
Nutrition info (per 100g):

Energy............1444kJ/340kcal
Protein............14.8g   
Carbohydrate....67.3g   
Total Sugars.....1.4g   
Starch.............65.9g
Fat.................1.3g   
Saturates.........0.3g   
Fibre................3.0g   
Salt.................trace   
Sodium.............0.00g   

Brand: Allison's Premium White Very Strong Bread Flour
Link: http://www.allinsonflour.co.uk/products/premium-white-very-strong-bread-flour.html
Nutrition info (per 100g):

Energy...................1429KJ/337kcal
Protein...................13.9g
Carbohydrate..........67.1g
of which sugars.......1.4g
Fat.......................1.4g
of which saturates...0.2g
Fibre.....................3.1g
Sodium..................0.003g
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 04:10:20 PM by james456 »


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #867 on: August 08, 2010, 11:53:23 AM »
james456,

If you are planning to use a dough formulation that calls for KASL or other similar high-gluten flour, you should be able to use either of the flours you mentioned without changing anything in the formulation. If you tell me which formulation you are planning to use, I think I should be able to confirm my advice.

Peter

Offline james456

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #868 on: August 08, 2010, 12:27:07 PM »
Pete-zza,


The formulation:

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.25%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (1%):
Total (166%):
270.79 g  |  9.55 oz | 0.6 lbs
170.6 g  |  6.02 oz | 0.38 lbs
0.68 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.22 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
4.74 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
2.71 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.6 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
449.51 g | 15.86 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = 0.103
Bowl residue compensation: 3%.

This formulation is based on the one found here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg5674.html#msg5674


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #869 on: August 08, 2010, 01:30:42 PM »
james456,

I think you should be fine with the dough formulation you posted and the one you referenced. If you plan on hand kneading the dough, you may want to let the dough rest from time to time while kneading to improve the hydration of the dough, which can be a problem sometimes when hand kneading a dough made with high-gluten flour. You will note, for example, that King Arthur recommends that doughs made with its King Arthur high-gluten flour be made in a machine, as I noted at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4282.msg35764.html#msg35764. However, as pointed out in the abovereferenced post, for a dough that is to be hand kneaded to the point of being somewhat underkneaded, you should not have a problem with either of the two high-gluten flours you mentioned. You also have the option of increasing the hydration a bit on the bench if you find it necessary.

Peter


scott123

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #870 on: August 08, 2010, 02:13:41 PM »
James, member brayshaw (Paul) has been testing bread flours available to UK bakers for a few months now in preparation for a NY style pizzeria that he's opening later this year. I would both read through a few of his posts as well as drop him a line to ascertain his thoughts about the two flours you're considering.

He recently made two good looking pizzas with 'supermarket Canadian flour,'

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11560.msg105951.html#msg105951

and that may be the Sainbury's, but I'd check with him to confirm.

The UK flour market, as Paul has witnessed, can be a little tricky to navigate.  Sometimes the protein numbers have a wide margin of error.  For instance- that 14.8% for the Sainbury's feels freakishly high.

Getting the right flour helps, but having the right oven setup is critical.  482F, even with soapstone, isn't going to give you enough heat for bake times short enough for the kind of oven spring you want for NY Style. It's close (550 with soapstone is pretty respectable), but not close enough.  You're going to want to look into some sort of oven workaround:

Baking a Varasano pizza on 250c/480f oven

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #871 on: August 08, 2010, 02:31:00 PM »
I agree that 14.8% protein looks high but it is possible that the protein content is being specified on a "dry basis" rather than a "wet basis" as is used in the U.S. This distinction is discussed at page 5 at http://web.archive.org/web/20060822034202/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/15ec5c94af1251cdac2d7a25848f0e27/miscdocs/Flour+Guide.pdf.

In Reply 864 in this thread, james456 indicates that he is looking into a soapstone source. Whether that will be adequate in his oven remains to be seen.

Peter

Offline jw

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #872 on: August 17, 2010, 03:00:01 PM »
help!1

Newbie here.
 
I thought I had this right.  Using the dough calculator I mixed 100% flour, 63% H20, .5 % ADY, .5 Salt, 1% oil. and got a sticky mess.  I made 3 batches last night using KASL, KA Italian, and a 00 brand that I cant remeber.  All were a sticky mess.  I used this recipe before and ity seemed to work. 

The ADY came out of the fridge(? a problem) and all dry ingrediants were mixed than added to water then oil. I thought I followed the Lehman video but I must be missing soemthing.

We are cooking in a WFO.
Thanks in advance.

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #873 on: August 17, 2010, 03:25:58 PM »
jw,

Can you provide more detail on how you sequenced the ingredients when you made the three doughs, and also whether you used a stand mixer, hand kneading, etc.? I assume that you did not use flour blends, only the individual flours you mentioned. Did you rehydrate the ADY before using and, if so, how specifically did you do it? Finally, what water temperature did you use?

Peter

Offline jw

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #874 on: August 17, 2010, 04:16:05 PM »
mixed flour, yeast and salt in a kitchen aid mixing bowl. poured in water.  mixed 2-3 minutes scrapping dry ingredints into wet.  let sit ~20 minutes.  continued mixing adding oil for ~5-6 minutes.  Did not rehydrate ADY prior to mixing for first 2 batches(you are correct, no mixing of flour).  Rehydrated ADY for last with small % of H2O from total H20 requirement. This was even a larger stickeier mess.  The kids said it all had the consistency of icing while in the mixing bowl. Tap water ~100 degrees.

Viewing the Lehman videos on You Tube it looks as if they add it all in dry, and water then oil and PRESTO!

maybe I'm thinking too much, its jsut dough.