Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 542131 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #975 on: March 14, 2012, 10:35:38 PM »
Very nice pies Norma!  I was in Lancaster for 10 years and enjoyed Roots Market.  I got to get back and have some of your pizza!  Since you are the "godmother" of NY sourdough style oven deck pizza, your evaluation finding no perceptable difference between sourdough and non sourdough Lehman cold ferment is newsworthy!  I have not gotten into sourdough for my NY pie, but often consider it.  Others such as Chau have been cautious about advising me to jump into sourdoughs for my NY pie, and Scott 123 is not a big fan either.  I now am even more hesitant.  Thanks for your work  generous sharing of your work!  Mark

Mark,

Thanks for your nice comments!  :) Rootís Farmer's Market and Auction is really a nice old-fashioned farmers market as you already know.  It has been around since 1925.  I am not the ďgodmotherĒ of NY sourdough style, but did try the Lehmann dough with two sourdough formulations.  One being at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12173.0.html and the other is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11700.0.html  I have been using the preferment Lehmann dough at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.0.html for a couple of years.  I had tried the milk kefir preferment and Ischia sourdough starter, but gave up on them because of the erratic yearly swings in market temperature.  The preferment Lehmann dough was much easier to handle because the preferment (not sourdough, but made with IDY) was made on a Friday and left to cold ferment until Monday before I made the final dough.  It is then left to cold ferment for one day.  I wouldnít hesitate to try a sourdough preferment again in a NY style pizza, but wouldnít do it for market.  I am still feeding my Ischia starter. 

Steve was kind enough to share his NY style formulation with me and it works in his home oven and in my deck oven.  I am not to sure about my home oven though.  Steveís home oven can get up to 550 degrees F and my home oven can only get up to 500 degrees F or a little higher, so Steve has the advantage of a higher oven temperature at his home.

Anytime you get back to Rootís stop in and see Steve and me.

Norma
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Offline communist

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #976 on: March 15, 2012, 09:12:48 AM »
Mark,

  The preferment Lehmann dough was much easier to handle because the preferment (not sourdough, but made with IDY) was made on a Friday and left to cold ferment until Monday before I made the final
  Thanks for the information Norma!  I am sorry, I equated preferment with sourdough on the forum for the past year.  I have some reading to do!  It is beautiful in Lancaster County this time of year. Hope to get down there soon!  Mark

Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #977 on: March 15, 2012, 09:22:31 AM »
  Thanks for the information Norma!  I am sorry, I equated preferment with sourdough on the forum for the past year.  I have some reading to do!  It is beautiful in Lancaster County this time of year. Hope to get down there soon!  Mark

Mark,

I also mixed-up preferments for a long while.  The preferment I used in all of my sourdough Lehmann doughs and preferment Lehmann dough is a poolish.  The preferment Lehmann poolish just had equal amounts of water and flour with added IDY.

Really to me there isnít a great big difference in using a preferment in the regular Lehmann dough, but I can tell a difference.  I donít think the average person would be able to tell the difference.

Yes, it is beautiful in Lancaster county this time of year.  The Amish are out plowing.  Hope to see you sometime.  :)

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #978 on: March 15, 2012, 12:02:47 PM »
Norma,

I am 100% with Peter on his observation that average Joe is not going to pick up on your dough change.I have seen a lot of people eat a lot of pizza over many years of selling and just watching and I believe ya gotta throw 'em a pretty good curve before they notice a change.
Just out of curiosity, Norma, have you ever tried garlic powder in your Lehmannn's doughs at Market?
I think MM pretzels would be a great "twist" on the traditional pretzel theme and just might be a hit....advertise them as "Sweet Pretzels" maybe, or something like that...?
Sorry to hear the MM pizzas aren't doing as well as they should.....maybe just needs a bit more time to catch on. Fresh, bright colored "veggies" are big right now ,as I'm sure you know. We see them everywhere, on everything. An MM dough with a bright white cheese as the backdrop for broccoli,and tri-colored peppers sitting out front in your display case,although "gourmet"  looking would certainly draw me into it.....and I"m a rural kind of guy ! 8)  But I'm sure you've already been trying these things,....you're a clever lady.   ;)

Keep up the good work, Norma. Changing that dough would lighten your load though, eh ?  Good luck.

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #979 on: March 15, 2012, 12:26:37 PM »
Norma,

I am 100% with Peter on his observation that average Joe is not going to pick up on your dough change.I have seen a lot of people eat a lot of pizza over many years of selling and just watching and I believe ya gotta throw 'em a pretty good curve before they notice a change.
Just out of curiosity, Norma, have you ever tried garlic powder in your Lehmannn's doughs at Market?
I think MM pretzels would be a great "twist" on the traditional pretzel theme and just might be a hit....advertise them as "Sweet Pretzels" maybe, or something like that...?
Sorry to hear the MM pizzas aren't doing as well as they should.....maybe just needs a bit more time to catch on. Fresh, bright colored "veggies" are big right now ,as I'm sure you know. We see them everywhere, on everything. An MM dough with a bright white cheese as the backdrop for broccoli,and tri-colored peppers sitting out front in your display case,although "gourmet"  looking would certainly draw me into it.....and I"m a rural kind of guy ! 8)  But I'm sure you've already been trying these things,....you're a clever lady.   ;)

Keep up the good work, Norma. Changing that dough would lighten your load though, eh ?  Good luck.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks so much for your thoughts and good luck!  :) I donít think either the average person would be able to tell if I decide to change my dough.  I am still not sure what I am going to decide to do. I might make half of my doughs this week with the preferment and half with Steveís formulation and get some taste testers to see what they think. 

I havenít tried garlic powder in the Lehmann dough, but I know Steve did.  It turned out very tasty.   ;D

We have many soft pretzels in our area  (our area in known for soft pretzels, and the one soft pretzel stand has been at market for many years) and at least three stands at market sell old-fashioned soft pretzels and soft pretzels like Auntie Anneís, so I am not sure how well even an MM soft pretzel will fair.  I know fresh vegetables on a pizza look very nice and also taste great.  :P  I wish I could be able to offer some more regular NY style pizzas with vegetables (because there are so many at market), but I have limited space at market. 

You are right that changing my dough would lighten my work load.  I still have to go to market to clean, fold boxes, and do stuff that needs to be done on a weekly basis, but I wouldnít have to go exactly on a Friday.  The preferment part of the Lehmann dough doesnít take really long to prepare, but it has to be started on a Friday.  Then there are also more things to wash when using the preferment. 

If I decide to switch over to Steveís formula for the Lehmann dough I will start another thread.  One thing that concerned me was that two pizzas had to be put on screens at the end of the bake or the bottom crusts would have been too brown.  I think that was in the middle of the afternoon when market wasnít as busy, so I guess my deck was hotter from not opening the doors as much.  I am not to sure of that though. 

Norma
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Offline franko9752

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #980 on: March 15, 2012, 12:39:57 PM »
Do you use an IR gun for your deck temps? I got one last month. I have the electric version of your gas BakersPride counter top and my bottom deck would read 500 deg. and my top deck would be 590deg. Sometimes my pie bottoms will get too brown too, good idea on putting screens on before it goes too brown, going to try that with a couple of screens i have but never used, i used to just put a pizza pan under if getting too brown. No need to put oil on the screen after it cooked....Plus my thermostat is about 150 deg off.

Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #981 on: March 15, 2012, 02:21:37 PM »
Do you use an IR gun for your deck temps? I got one last month. I have the electric version of your gas BakersPride counter top and my bottom deck would read 500 deg. and my top deck would be 590deg. Sometimes my pie bottoms will get too brown too, good idea on putting screens on before it goes too brown, going to try that with a couple of screens i have but never used, i used to just put a pizza pan under if getting too brown. No need to put oil on the screen after it cooked....Plus my thermostat is about 150 deg off.

Frank,

I have used an IR gun many times to check my deck temperatures, and they are all over the place depending on where the temperature is taken.  On the sides of the deck it seems to be hotter.  My top deck doesnít seem to run as high as my bottom deck.  Seems like your electric deck oven is the complete opposite of mine.  In other doughs I have also used screens sometimes.  They seem to work well if the bottom crust was starting to become to brown before the top of the pizza is finished.  I never tried a pizza pan if the bottom was getting dark too fast in the deck oven, but have done that on my BBQ set-up.

I didnít check the deck oven temperatures on Tuesday though.  I might do that this coming Tuesday if any of the Lehmann dough pizzas brown too fast on the bottom crust.  Thanks for making me think!  ;D

Norma. 
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #982 on: March 19, 2012, 05:55:56 PM »
There were three Lehmann doughs mixed for tomorrow, one being the preferment Lehmann dough.  I will see if my customers, taste testers, or Steve can tell the difference in the final pizzas.

Norma
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Offline R2-Bayou

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #983 on: March 19, 2012, 06:15:40 PM »
Since its been too cold outside to comfortably run my Little Black Egg, I've been researching NY style recipes.. Gave a shot at the 67% hydration recipe from a comment earlier in this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg5353.html#msg5353

Best NY style I've made yet! Sorry no crumb shot. I mixed the pizza dough in the same bowl I just mixed my sourdough bread dough in, so the flavor was likely helped by the residual starter (or at least that's what I'm telling myself ;D).
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #984 on: March 19, 2012, 06:41:32 PM »
R2-Bayou,

Your NY style looks delicious!  :)  What kind of flour did you use?

Norma
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Offline R2-Bayou

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #985 on: March 19, 2012, 06:45:47 PM »
Thanks Norma!

I used Bob's Red Mill Organic AP (Organic Unbleached White Flour). The mill is close to where I live here in Oregon and I get 50lb bags for cheap..

« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:10:37 PM by R2-Bayou »
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Offline franko9752

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #986 on: March 19, 2012, 10:56:42 PM »
Looks tasty!

Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #987 on: March 21, 2012, 07:01:38 AM »
These are pictures of the different pies from yesterday.  I donít know why I didnít take more pictures of each dough and resulting pies.  The Lehmann dough with the dressings on the first pie was my taste testers favorite and also Steveís and mine.  The first pizza with the toppings of Alfredo Sauce with garlic, spinach, cheddar, two blends of mozzarellas, applewood smoked bacon, spring onions, and olive oil soaked sun dried tomatoes sure was good.  Using that Lehmann dough gave the highest oven spring and moistness in the crust.  I had upped the IDY a little more on Monday.

Next week I will start another thread about the Lehmann dough at market.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #988 on: March 21, 2012, 07:02:51 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #989 on: March 21, 2012, 07:04:24 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #990 on: March 21, 2012, 07:06:16 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #991 on: March 21, 2012, 07:07:33 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #992 on: March 21, 2012, 07:09:06 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #993 on: March 21, 2012, 07:12:46 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #994 on: March 21, 2012, 07:14:10 AM »
Norma
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Offline BeerdedOne

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #995 on: March 22, 2012, 05:34:09 PM »
Here are a few pictures of my first attempt with the Lehmann style recipe, which I found quite forgiving and rewarding.  The pie baked up with a nice color and texture and with moderately soft open crumb in 4 minutes.  The exact formulation was the same as the one Norma gave as Tom's 'new' formulation in reply #940 in this thread, sized for a 14 in. pie:

 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 05:36:42 PM by BeerdedOne »

Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #996 on: March 22, 2012, 06:34:21 PM »
BeerdedOne,

Your pizza sure looks tasty with nice crust browning and oven spring!  :)

Norma
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Offline BeerdedOne

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #997 on: March 22, 2012, 08:26:09 PM »
Thanks Norma, for saying the pizza looks good and tasty, I think it was!  The browning and ovenspring were a big part of that, which was helped along by a hot stone (650F).


Offline norma427

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #998 on: March 22, 2012, 08:34:15 PM »
Thanks Norma, for saying the pizza looks good and tasty, I think it was!  The browning and ovenspring were a big part of that, which was helped along by a hot stone (650F).



BeerdedOne ,

What kind of oven do you use that can get to 650 degrees F?  Also if you donít mind me asking what kind of flour did you use?  I am trying to understand more about different flours.

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #999 on: March 22, 2012, 11:43:51 PM »
That's a great looking pizza there!


 

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