Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 482216 times)

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Offline Milanocookies56

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #360 on: February 01, 2006, 07:21:47 PM »
Oh well then I guess they were 12 because I just split the dough in half but they tasted great on the second one I wish I would have a put it on the screen for five mintues and the stone for 2 but i just kept it on the screen the whole 7 the bottom was browned but i prefer mine a little browner


Offline Wallman

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #361 on: February 14, 2006, 09:12:10 PM »
I found using the screen/stone method with Pete's Tom L. NY style dough worked very well. I preheated my oven to 550 for an hour and baked the pizza on a 16 inch screen for around 5 minutes. I then transfered the pizza to my tiles on the bottom rack.  As soon as the pizza hit the tiles the cheese started to bubble and you could hear the dough cooking.  After 2 - 3 minutes the bottom of the pizza had a nice char.  I cooked five pizzas this Saturday for my birthday and they came out great.  The last couple pizzas took a bit longer as the oven cooled down from use, so just keep an eye on your pizzas if you're doing more than one or two. Unfortunately all my guests ate them before I could take pictures.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #362 on: February 19, 2006, 04:10:06 PM »
The photos below show the results of my latest undertaking to make a take-and-bake version of the Lehmann NY style dough. What I have been trying to accomplish along these lines is to 1) produce a take-and-bake pre-formed Lehmann dough skin, and even a fully dressed skin, at least one day, and possibly two or three days, before baking; and 2) bake the pizza in a standard home oven, on the middle oven rack position, at around 425 degrees F, for about 10-15 minutes, without the need for a stone/tiles or pizza peel.

At this point, I would also prefer not to use a special leavening system such as WRISE, as is frequently used by commercial take-and-bake operators to insure that the dough rises sufficiently in the oven in the event consumers “abuse” the pizzas by failing to use them properly and in accordance with the recommended handling and baking procedures.  (As background for this subject, readers may wish to refer to Replies 343, 347, 349 and 355 in this thread, as well as intervening posts.)

My experience to date is that take-and-bake pizzas based on a yeast-leavened dough tend to bake up crispier than most pizzas. From what I have read, this seems to be inherent in a lot of take-and-bake pizzas, particularly if a product like WRISE is not used. Also, the manner in which the doughs are made for this style of pizza, and particularly the use of short fermentation times, tends to preclude achieving pronounced flavors in the crust. I have yet to find a good solution for the first problem without resorting to the use of a product like WRISE, but the second problem seems to have a solution in the form of a simple preferment using only commercial yeast. In this vein, Tom Lehmann himself has recommended use of a short-term (3-4 hours) room-temperature fermented sponge (technically more like a biga, in my view) that is incorporated into the final dough before pre-forming the dough into a skin and cold fermenting it for next day use (usually).

Armed with what I have learned to date about take-and-bake pizzas, I came up with the following formulation for a 16-inch Lehmann NY style take-and-bake dough--which includes in the quantities specified what I will refer to as the “biga”:

Take-and-Bake Formulation for 16-Inch Lehmann NY Style Dough
100%, Flour (King Arthur Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour), 13.02 oz. (368.83 g.)
63%, Water, 8.20 oz. (232.36 g.)
3%, Oil, 0.39 oz. (11.06 g.), 2 3/8 t. (Note: I used 80% canola, or around 2 t., and 20% olive oil, or around 1/2 t.)
1.75%, Salt, 0.23 oz. (6.45 g.), a bit over 1 1/8 t.
0.25%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.03 oz. (0.92 g.), a bit less than 1/3 t.
2%, Sugar, 0.26 oz. (7.38 g.), about 1 7/8 t.
Total dough weight (for one 16-inch pizza) = 22.12 oz. (627.01 g.)
Thickness Factor (TF) = 0.11

Before discussing the biga, I will mention as additional background information that take-and-bake dough skins tend to use low yeast levels (to achieve slow fermentation and to prevent gassiness in the dough), and higher than normal sugar levels (mainly for crust color purposes) and oil levels (mainly for softness and tenderness in the crust). In my case, I used elevated sugar and oil levels and I also increased the thickness of the dough, from the usual 0.10-0.105 thickness factor, to 0.11, in an attempt to reduce the level of crispiness in the crust by using a slightly thicker dough.

To make the biga, I took 55% of the flour and 55% of the water (by weight) called for in the above formulation, added all of the yeast, and mixed and kneaded them together into a dough that had a texture and consistency similar to the final dough. I used my KitchenAid stand mixer, but any mixing technique can be used. In my case, I used water at around 120 degrees F to achieve a relatively warm dough, at around 85 degrees F, to allow for good fermentation in my kitchen at a temperature of around 64 degrees F. I allowed the dough to remain, covered, at room temperature for around 4-5 hours. The formulation for the biga itself can be characterized as follows:

Biga Formulation
Flour, 7.16 oz. (203.01 g.), 1 1/2 c. plus 3 T. plus 1 t.
Water (at 120 degree F), 4.51 oz. (127.86 g.), a bit less than 5/8 c.
Yeast (IDY), 0.03 oz. (0.92 g.), a bit less than 1/3 t.

After the 4-5 hour fermentation, I incorporated the biga with the rest of the dough ingredients. The salt was first dissolved in the remaining water (cool out of the refrigerator), along with the sugar, and the biga was added along with the remaining flour (gradually). The oil was added after all of the other ingredients had formed a rough ball, using the stir and 1 speeds. The dough was then kneaded in the usual fashion for about 5-6 minutes at #2 speed. For convenience, the remaining quantities of flour and water that were combined with the biga can be recited as follows:

Remaining Flour and Water Quantities
Flour, 5.86 oz. (165.82 g.), 1 1/3 c. plus 1 T. plus 1 t.
Water (cool out of the refrigerator), 3.69 oz. (104.50 g.), between 3/8 and 1/2 c.

Once the dough was finished, it was allowed to rest, covered, for 30 minutes at room temperature. It was then shaped and stretched into a 16-inch skin. The dough had a fair amount of elasticity, but after allowing it to rest for a minute or two a few times, the dough did reach the desired 16-inch diameter. The skin was prepared for refrigeration in the manner previously described in the abovereferenced posts, using the cardboard/parchment paper/plastic wrap arrangement previously shown and described.

The pre-formed skin was kept under refrigeration for about 24 hours. It was then dressed in a simple pepperoni style and, to simulate travel from a take-and-bake operation to a consumer’s home, I allowed the fully dressed pizza to sit at room temperature, covered, for about an hour. I might mention that I used a fairly thick sauce--as is typically recommended--to prevent water in the sauce from migrating into the dough during the one-hour wait. As added insurance, I had also pre-coated the undressed skin with a bit of olive oil before putting the sauce down. The pizza was baked on the center oven rack position, on the parchment paper, at a preheated 425 degrees F, for about a total of 15 minutes.

I would describe the latest take-and-bake pizza as the best of the take-and-bake pizzas I have made to date. The crust was chewy and had exceptionally good flavor--almost like a baguette bread flavor--and decent coloration. I was especially surprised by the crust flavor, especially since the dough had remained in the refrigerator for only 24 hours. The crust was still crispier than what I have been looking for--with only modest airiness in the rim--despite the relatively high 63% hydration level. I believe that this result might be attributed to reduced oven spring at 425 degrees F on an oven rack without a preheated stone/tiles. I suspect this is why a product like WRISE is often used.

I believe I can improve the take-and-bake product further, and I have several ideas that I plan to incorporate into my next attempt. To the extent that they advance the process, I will report the results.

Peter

Offline abc

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #363 on: February 20, 2006, 12:45:25 PM »
This is the Lehmann 16" using KingArthur's HIGluten flour.  I haven't used it in a few yrs, and this is the first time I tried the Lehmann with the KA HiG flour.  I'm very impressed with it.  Compared to my previous flour, which is a local 'Jewish' HiG flour (which was good), the KA HiG has more flour flavor, and has more of a crackle like malt for a bagel.  I would say that the simple 'window pane' test that I did out of curiosity was more impressive too.  I bought a 50lb bag with 15.00 shipping from DutchValley foods as mentioned in another thread.  Comes out to about 3.00 per 5lb bag for me, I believe.

Some quick pics, 24 hr rise, 1 final room temp rest.  Fresh tomatoes pulsed and seasoned 2hrs ahead of use, periodically pour out settled water.  Fresh basil, some low moisture whole milk Pollyo, then some local 'fresh' mozz $5/1lb ball, sliced peperroni, some onions.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 12:47:29 PM by abc »

Offline abc

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #364 on: February 26, 2006, 11:02:11 AM »
After about 6 months I got the urge to try a 18", being that I'm working with KA HI.G flour after a few yrs w/ it and having more experience with the Lehmann dough.

I gave it a 2day+ fridge rise.

Pies were finished with NINA tomatoes just pulsed and seasoned, then Polly-o low moisture whole milk from loaf.  Pepperoni and onion.  Simple stuff, just wanted to see how my oven would handle it because 6 months earlier i had some problems with heating.  This time I heated the stone in a middle rack for 1hr, then moved it down to the oven floor.  I think this made a difference.  I think the longer rise gave better char too.


Offline foodblogger

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #365 on: February 26, 2006, 11:41:45 AM »
Wow that looks delicious.  I really like how the tips of the onions blackened.  I bet that tasted amazing.  Smoky parts, sweet parts, juicy parts, all contrasting.  I also like the browning you got on the crust.  Was the 18 inch size more difficult to handle as in getting it in and out of the oven etc?  After I get beyond a certain size it gets iffy.  I need a bigger pizza stone I guess.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #366 on: February 26, 2006, 12:57:19 PM »
foodblogger,

It would be nice to have a really large stone, but you can use an 18-inch pizza screen along with a smaller stone. This is what I do since I don't have an 18+ inch stone and I can't tile my oven shelf to get that size without having to have some of the tiles cut to fit. What I do is bake the pizza on the screen on an upper shelf of the oven and when the pizza crust sets and the pizza is firm and the crust starts to turn brown (after about 5-6 minutes), I shift the pizza off of the screen onto my 1-hour preheated stone at the lowest oven rack position to finish baking and to get better bottom crust browning. At this point it doesn't matter that the pizza is bigger than the stone and overlaps it. Another nice thing about using the screen is that you don't have to worry about navigating the 18-inch pizza from a peel onto the stone or tiles.

Peter

Offline foodblogger

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #367 on: February 26, 2006, 02:44:33 PM »
Pete-
That is an excellent tip and I have already set the wheels in motion for me to be able to try it out.  I ordered an 18 inch like 3 weeks ago and it hasn't come in yet.  Grumble Grumble Grumble. 

Offline abc

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #368 on: February 26, 2006, 05:24:18 PM »
2 mor pics of 1 left over slice.

Offline abc

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #369 on: February 26, 2006, 05:35:29 PM »
Wow that looks delicious.  I really like how the tips of the onions blackened.  I bet that tasted amazing.  Smoky parts, sweet parts, juicy parts, all contrasting.  I also like the browning you got on the crust.  Was the 18 inch size more difficult to handle as in getting it in and out of the oven etc?  After I get beyond a certain size it gets iffy.  I need a bigger pizza stone I guess.

thanks.  i too like the charred onion tips.  i've been fortunate to have been able to achieve that for a while when i add onions as a topping.

yes the charring on the crust i wasn't previously able to achieve with the 18" inch, only the 16"... my next test is a few more times with a 2+ day rise with KA flour to see if this is better than a 1 day rise.  I'm really liking the use of KA flour again.  The flour of the crust, with a few occasional bites being subtly bitter due to the rustic charring is exactly how it is in the decent local 5 borough NYC pizza places (I find that at least 2/5 places don't have an intense enough flame and when you buy a whole pie, it's not charred, but the same pie is fine when you order 1 or 2 slices from their counter and they reheat it).

it was sickeningly tasty today as a cold pizza.  naturally sweet savory red onions, fresh bright sauce (still looking to make it more zesty) just a tad of pepperoni, fresh cheese, hint of oregano, basil, garlic... flavorful crust tast.

Yes, 18" was more difficult.  I'm finding the KA flour to be very extensible... I may have to try reducing the water by 2 or 3 pct... i couldn't stretch it much without bracing it on the counter.

I also parbake these days, and with this 18" I had to open my oven a few times  and being that I waited the for the oven to get back to 550degrees, it slowed the process down measurably.   I should say I tried.  avg. temps were probably 510degrees.  When I make the 16" pies I think I avg. 540%.

I use a 16" round stone... I used the 18" screen to parbake, then a few min w/o the screen, then the final min. with a screen again.  I generally like dough to stone direct contact as much as possible.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #370 on: February 26, 2006, 06:05:28 PM »
abc,

I assume when you say "parbake" you mean that you bake the skin on the pizza screen for a specified period, then dress it, and finish baking the pizza. Is that correct? Also, at which oven rack position do you start the prebake and how do you thereafter move the pizza around?

As far as extensibility is concerned, lowering the hydration is a good way to go without giving up too much in the way of an open crumb. You might also use cooler water. When I first started making the Lehmann doughs, I temperature adjusted the water to get a finished dough temperature of around 80-85 degrees F, which is what Tom Lehmann specified in his dough formulation. It took me a long time to figure out that my refrigerator operated warmer than a commercial cooler and that my doughs were undergoing a faster fermentation than if I were using a commercial cooler. Now I use cooler water and shoot for a finished dough temperature of around 75 degrees F to get the fermentation process back in line. Another way to do it would be to use the 80-85 degrees target but use less yeast.

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #371 on: February 27, 2006, 02:03:42 AM »
Peter,  I had to do a pizza party at a relatives place this weekend with a 550 degree oven.  I have a bag of General Mills Full Strength flour that I haven't used in a while, so I decided to try a lehmann recipe with it.  I used your standard 63% hydration recipe, and yes....... IDY.  I recently found a one pound bag of Fleischman's IDY for two bucks at a restaraunt supply store so I picked it up.  I just wanted to let you know that the pies turned out excellent without any need for modification to the recipe because of the change in the type of flour.  I received a  comment that the pizza was just like what a friend had on a recent trip to NYC.

Thanks for the awesome recipe!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #372 on: February 27, 2006, 10:59:44 AM »
Thank you, scott, but the credit should really go to Tom Lehmann. It is his formulation and all I did was to act as a translator to convert it to home use. It was even his writings that taught me how to do that, plus a whole lot more.
Our members may not know that Tom is a member of our forum, albeit a dormant one. As noted at the following PMQ Think Tank thread, forum member pftaylor tried to engage Tom further in the activities at our forum by posting at the Think Tank: http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/26981. After all of the things I have done to the basic Lehmann dough formulation, I was fearful that I would have to enter a witness protection program if Tom actually saw what I did to his dough formulation.

BTW, for those not familiar with the General Mills Full Strength flour that scott used, it is basically a bread flour with around 12.6% protein. I don't believe it is a flour available at retail, and I would guess that it comes in a 50-lb. bag.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #373 on: March 20, 2006, 06:55:59 AM »
A while back, at Reply 297 at page 15 of this thread (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.280.html), I described an experiment in which I made and baked a 9” Lehmann NY style pizza on a preheated bed of rocks. Pleased with the results, I wondered whether it would be feasible to make a much larger pizza using the same approach. Recently I bought an inexpensive Wilton 15 3/4” perforated pizza pan and decided to test the notion of a much larger pizza, in this case a 15” pizza. I used the standard Lehmann NY style dough formulation, as adapted to the 15” size and a thickness factor (TF) of 0.105. The final formulation I used was as follows:

100%, High-gluten flour (KASL), 11.19 oz. (316.89 g.), 2 1/2 c. plus 1 T. plus 2 t.
63%, Water, 7.04 oz. (199.64 g.), 7/8 c.
1.75%, Salt, 0.20 oz. (5.55 g.), 1 t.
0.25%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.03 oz. (0.79 g.), a bit more than 1/4 t.
1%, Oil, 0.11 oz. (3.17 g.), a bit more than 5/8 t.
Total dough weight = 18.56 oz. (526.03 g.)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.105
Note: All measurements are U.S./metric standard

To make the dough, I used my KitchenAid stand mixer and the following sequencing of ingredients: Water, salt (dissolved in the water), flour/IDY mixture (added gradually at "stir" speed), and oil. The oil was added when the other ingredients formed a rough dough ball, and the dough was kneaded for about 5 minutes more at 2 speed. Once made, the dough was put in the refrigerator in a metal container for a total of almost 3 days, following which the dough was removed from the refrigerator and allowed to warm up (covered with a sheet of plastic wrap) for about 2 hours at room temperature. The dough was then shaped and stretched into a 15” skin (on a lightly floured wood peel). The dough was very extensible but still manageable despite the roughly 3 days of fermentation.

The pizza was dressed with a simple tomato sauce (Stanislaus Tomato Magic), shredded Grande whole-milk mozzarella cheese, Margherita pepperoni slices, and dried oregano. The dressed pizza was deposited onto the bed of rocks in the 15 3/4” perforated pizza pan which had been preheated for about an hour at around 500-550 degrees F. The pizza was allowed to bake on the bed of rocks for about 5-6 minutes, whereupon the pizza was transferred off of the bed of rocks to an upper oven rack position where the pizza was subjected to direct top heat from the broiler element, which had been turned on about 5 minutes into the bake cycle. The pizza remained under the broiler for about a minute or two, so as to provide better top crust browning.

The photos below show the rock/pan arrangement and the finished product. I thought the pizza turned out very well. The crust was chewy and soft, with decent oven spring and a bit of crispiness at the rim. The crust away from the rim was softer and less crispy than usual, but the pizza was very tasty and enjoyable nonetheless. As might be expected after 3 days of fermentation, the finished crust had good flavor and texture. It was a nice departure from the usual Lehmann pizzas baked on a pizza stone. I also confirmed that it is possible to make a decent sized pizza on a bed of rocks. So, if someone had a perforated (or even a non-perforated) pizza pan and can round up enough clean (washed and dried) rocks to cover the entire bottom of the pan, it is possible to make a decent pizza without the need for a pizza stone or tiles. I’m not a camper, but I wonder whether the approach might be adapted to a campfire setting. According to Evelyne Slomon, the precursors to pizzas were baked on stones in Neolithic times (http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/27750) :chef:.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 07:00:10 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #374 on: March 20, 2006, 07:13:34 AM »
And the pie..


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #375 on: March 20, 2006, 07:24:29 AM »
And a slice...


Offline PizzaBrasil

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #376 on: March 20, 2006, 12:37:04 PM »
Peter:

Sorry if I miss the information. What do you use to support your dressed pizza over the rocks bed? A screen? A perforated disk?.
We could expect to obtain punctual hot points (browned ones) in the bottom of the dough. Did not this happen?
Thanks

Luis

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #377 on: March 20, 2006, 01:00:13 PM »
Luis,

I did not use a screen or disk. I just slid the dressed pizza off of the peel (wood) directly onto the bed of rocks. I loaded the pizza onto the bed of rocks just like I would on a pizza stone.

I tried to make a uniform layer of rocks in the pan and to crowd them together so that the dough wouldn't get punctured or sag. I also tried to use mostly round, smooth rocks as much as I could. The rocks do make indentations in the bottom of the dough, as you will note from the slice photo above. I should have taken a photo of the bottom, but where the rocks touched the dough, the crust was darker than the surrounding area. The whole experiment was more for fun but I also learn from such experiments. It was not intended as a novelty pizza. I had a leftover slice of the pizza for lunch today and it was excellent. I make so many of the standard Lehmann pizzas that once in a while I like to try to get a somewhat different style out of the same dough, which the heated bed of rocks provides.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 26, 2006, 07:43:57 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #378 on: March 23, 2006, 09:58:23 AM »
As regular readers of this thread are aware, the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation does not call for any sugar. The reason for this is to prevent or minimize premature or excessive browning of the crust bottom because of direct physical contact of the dough with a very hot oven stone surface. Tom Lehmann will often recommend using sugar if the dough is to be held for more than say, 72 hours, on the theory that there has been depletion of the natural sugars extracted from the flour and that additional sugar will be needed to promote crust coloration.

Recently, in answer to a question posed to Tom on the NY style, he indicated that it was permissible to use around 2% sugar in the dough formulation if the pizza is to be baked in an impingement or infrared oven rather than on a deck. The purpose in this case would be for crust color development. I suspect that most of our members/readers are using home ovens or even wood- or gas-fired ovens, but I mention the above in the event there are members/readers using the basic Lehmann formulation with impingement or infrared ovens.

I suspect that those using pizza screens or disks in home ovens will also be able to incorporate a bit of sugar (e.g., 1-2%) in  the dough because the screen or disk will shield the pizza from very high temperatures, even if the screen/disk with the pizza on it is placed directly on a very hot stone surface.

I might also add that the sugar doesn't have to be ordinary table sugar (sucrose). It can be virtually any form of sugar including honey, non-diastatic malt syrup, and the like. However, if something like honey is used, it will be necessary to increase the amount of honey by about 20% on a weight basis to get the equivalent sweetness to table sugar. This is because honey includes about 20% water. Technically, one should also reduce the amount of water in the formulation to adjust for the water in the honey, but at the single-pizza level it will usually be quite small, perhaps less than half a teaspoon when used at 2% for a 16-inch pizza.

Peter


Offline Wallman

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #379 on: April 03, 2006, 12:50:20 PM »
This Saturday I made 4 Lehmann NY-style pizzas using the basic 63% hydration recipe using KASL flour.  Since I mixed the dough on Tuesday and planned to let it rise for 4 days in the fridge I added a little sugar per the recommendation above.  The pies were great, in fact the best Lehmann crust to-date.  I think the longer rise really helped intensify the flavor of the crust and the sugar added a very tiny bit of sweetness.  I let the dough warm up for about 3 hours rest on the counter before shaping. The dough was easy to handle and very extensible. I'll post pictures later.


 

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