Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 491526 times)

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Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1060 on: December 26, 2013, 11:48:10 PM »
I have a question for people who use or have used Pillsbury bread flour for the Tom Le Mann recipe. What is a good Hydration percentage for a pretty small batch of dough? It is my first time using this brand of flour, and I have no idea how well it absorbs water.

Thanks for any and all help,
Julian


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1061 on: December 26, 2013, 11:56:58 PM »
Julian,

I would say around 61-62%.

Peter

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1062 on: December 27, 2013, 12:30:11 AM »
Thanks, Pete. I will give that percentage a try and tell everyone how it works out.

Julian

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1063 on: December 28, 2013, 11:50:23 AM »
I tried it at 61% and found it to be far to wet. I began adding flour to the mixture and put somewhere around a half a cup more flour in. The beginning flour amount was about 7 1/2 Oz. I also tried using the food processor for the first time with no luck. It just got tangled between the blade and bowl. Am I doing something wrong or do I just have a bad blender from many years ago?

Julian

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1064 on: December 28, 2013, 12:56:29 PM »
Julian,

This is the thread that I usually cite for those who choose to use a food processor to make a NY style dough:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2189.msg19289.html#msg19289

Peter

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1065 on: December 29, 2013, 12:48:15 AM »
Thanks, Pete. I have read through that and others, but I still managed to mess it up. I am more of a visual learner; do you know of any good videos demonstrating this technique? I think that the main reason it didn't work, is that my dough was to wet. I have only recently begun taking my pizza dough seriously, and I am still working on finding a good mixture for me.

I have a quick question: on the dough calculator it says that EVO isn't recommended; why? This is the only olive oil I have right now so I haven't been putting any oil in my dough.

Thanks,
Julian

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1066 on: December 29, 2013, 09:38:11 AM »
Julian,

Most domestic bread flours can usually handle around 62% hydration, so I am surprised that you needed to add as much extra flour as you did, even when using a food processor (I assume you weighed the flour and water). Most millers don't cite the rated absorption values for their flours, but for the King Arthur bread flour, where we do know the value, it is 62%. Many professionals typically operate within a range of absorption values and, for a bread flour, it might be 57-64%. So you might have to play around with the Pillsbury bread flour quantity to get the sough consistency and cohesiveness you desire.

As for the recommendation that extra virgin olive oil not be used for a dough to be made using the Lehmann dough calculating tool, you can find the explanation at Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19477.msg190635/topicseen.html#msg190635.

As for a video that shows how to use a food processor to make pizza dough, I am not aware of having seen one although I did not specifically look for one especially when the techniques I developed seemed to work well for me.

Peter

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1067 on: December 29, 2013, 12:06:36 PM »
Thanks, Pete. I don't have a scale right now, but I would really like to get one. How long do you have to run your processor before your dough forms a ball around the blade? It never formed a ball for me; it just made my blades unable to spin. Thanks for the link, I will use olive oil next time I make dough. As for the video, I, too, have looked to no avail.

Thanks,
Julian

P.S. Are there any scales in the price range of around $15 that you recommend?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1068 on: December 30, 2013, 11:02:34 AM »
Julian,

If you are not using a scale, I don't know how you have been measuring out flour and water so that the correct hydration value is achieved. If you are using the hydration value based on volume measurements, that will give you incorrect results. The hydration value is a weight-based value. So, for example, if you have 100 grams of flour and you want a hydration value of 62%, you would use 62 grams of water. In some early recipes in this thread, there were attempts to convert weight measurements to volume measurements but they turned out not to be entirely reliable in a general home setting.

With respect to your question about how long it takes for a ball to form in a food processor, that will depend on the recipe, the amount of dough to be made, and especially the hydration value and whether any other liquids are also used, such as oil. But if the dough as it is being mixed remains crumbly and refuses to combine into a cohesive ball, as is quite common for low-hydration cracker style doughs, that is an indication that there is not enough water to allow a dough ball to be formed, no matter how hard the machine tries to do this. On the other hand, if the dough is wet and liquidy, like a thick pancake batter, the blade will continue to whirl away and never be able to form a dough ball because there is just too much water. I suspect that problems like this will go away for the most part if you start using a scale.

I have not researched digital scales recently, but $15 is perhaps somewhat on the low side for a quality digital scale. At a minimum, you want to look for a scale that can measure to 1 gram/0.1 ounce resolution. It should also be able to handle several pounds of weight. Unless another member reads this post and can offer up a recommendation based on recent experience, you might look for threads on scales on the board at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?board=48.0.

Peter

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1069 on: December 30, 2013, 11:28:20 PM »
I guess I need a scale. I have seen that the AWS low weight scales have been recommended. The AWS 1000 - 0.1g is my first choice, but this scale is a lot more appealing because of the fact that there is nothing blocking any of the sides, which means I could put a bigger bowl on this one.

Can you say if either of these would be a good choice for a hobby?

Julian

P.S. 1000g is plenty for me and I don't think I will mind not being able to go past 0.1g.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1070 on: December 30, 2013, 11:40:34 PM »
I guess I need a scale. I have seen that the AWS low weight scales have been recommended. The AWS 1000 - 0.1g is my first choice, but this scale is a lot more appealing because of the fact that there is nothing blocking any of the sides, which means I could put a bigger bowl on this one.

Can you say if either of these would be a good choice for a hobby?

Julian

P.S. 1000g is plenty for me and I don't think I will mind not being able to go past 0.1g.
Julian, do you know how to include "links" within your post to objects you are referencing ?  i.e. https://www.pricemaster.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2648

ps...I have that scale and it is great for the small stuff. Only weighs to 2lbs. though and you would need to use a very small bowl....platform has maybe 2" by 2" footprint.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 11:45:45 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline JulianN

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« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 06:43:02 PM by Steve »

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1072 on: December 30, 2013, 11:50:55 PM »
If the first scale that I linked to is as good as the second, I would very much prefer to get it it because of the un-ubstructed sides.

Julian

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1073 on: December 31, 2013, 09:35:44 AM »
If the first scale that I linked to is as good as the second, I would very much prefer to get it it because of the un-ubstructed sides.

Julian
Scale #2 lid lays flat so there is no obstruction....both scales will do the same things.
Myself, I'd go with #2 because of the built in lid and because I know it's a good scale(I have one). #1 has moving parts, the swing out dial...I wouldn't trust that.
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Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1074 on: December 31, 2013, 12:36:33 PM »
I didn't know that the lid went all the way down. I guess I will go with the second one.


Thanks,
Julian

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1075 on: December 31, 2013, 02:12:56 PM »
I didn't know that the lid went all the way down. I guess I will go with the second one.


Thanks,
Julian
I also have this scale and if you can afford it, Julian, it is the way to go. Weighs to over 17lbs. and you will never need another scale....does Baker's %'s too!  :chef:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001NE0FU2/?tag=pizzamaking-20
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Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1076 on: December 31, 2013, 02:57:03 PM »
That one is a little bit overboard for me. I just ordered the smaller one, so I will soon be making accurate measurements.

Thanks for the help,
Julian

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1077 on: January 09, 2014, 05:35:11 PM »
Hello,

today, I tried making dough in the food processor for the first time after getting my scale, and it worked well in terms of messiness. Though it was clean, the dough wasn't great. I put my sugar, flour and yeast in the bowl and mixed it, then I turned the processor on and poured the water, with salt mixed in, into the bowl all at once. When it became a ball, I did the Tom Lehmann test of pulling out an egg sized chunk of dough, smoothing it out, placing my thumbs on the dough and pulling it to see if it broke at all; it did. After the test failed, I put it back in and ran it for another 15 seconds or so, then did the test again; nothing. I repeated this about four or five times, never getting the results I was looking for, so I did a little bit of hand kneading and "tried" to ball the dough. I said tried because, it didn't really work out to well, there were many tears on the surface, which ruins the point of balling the dough.

This is the recipe that I used:

Flour (100%):    198.31 g  |  7 oz | 0.44 lbs
Water (63%):    124.93 g  |  4.41 oz | 0.28 lbs
IDY (0.40%):    0.79 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    3.47 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
Oil (1%):    1.98 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.44 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    3.97 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Total (168.15%):   333.46 g | 11.76 oz | 0.74 lbs | TF = 0.104

Can anyone help out with my problem?

Thanks for any and all help,
Julian

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1078 on: January 09, 2014, 08:50:19 PM »
Julian,

I am pretty certain that the test you conducted on the dough is intended for a dough made in a stand mixer. A food processor works so much faster that it easy to overknead the dough. I would suggest that you stop the food processor shortly after the dough has been formed into a ball and the ball is coasting around the mixer bowl between the blade and the side walls of the bowl. If you want to do any final kneading to be sure that the dough ball is round and smooth, I would do that by hand.

I also recommend that you add the water mixture to the mixer bowl gradually rather than all at once. That should allow for a more uniform and complete hydration of the dough.

Perhaps as a result of an oversight, I note that you did not say anything about the introduction of the oil into the mixer bowl. With only 1% oil, I think you can safely add it either to the water/salt mixture or to the mixer bowl once the dough forms into a rough ball.

Peter

Offline JulianN

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1079 on: January 09, 2014, 10:51:36 PM »
Thanks Pete!

I will keep all of that in mind next time I make dough. With the oil, I add it after the ball has formed. Something else, do you think I should up my amount of oil?

Julian