Author Topic: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style  (Read 86229 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2007, 11:07:30 AM »
The photos below show the finished pizza, a single slice as I cut it out of the finished pizza, and a second slice that I enhanced with additional toppings. Specifically, I added some Mexican picante sauce (medium heat) to the second slice as shown below, along with some chopped fresh tomatoes, shredded lettuce and a couple of dollops of sour cream. That combination was exceptional, with several different textures, flavors, heat (from the jalapeno peppers in the picante sauce) and temperatures. The unadorned slice was also very tasty in its own right.

Peter


Offline scott r

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2007, 11:46:49 AM »
Does anybody have a good pizza sauce recipe ? Im glad I got into making my own pizzas as all the "Good" pizza joints around here are going to pre-made crusts and they are horrible.

I think the classic sauce style for this type of pizza (at least what I have had various pizzerias in the midwest where this style is the most prevalent) is fairly pasty when compared to other sauces.  Usually I suspect something like Escalon's Bonta or the Stanislaus Saporito extra heavy rather than a tomato base with texture like a whole peeled, crushed, or a puree.  The tendency is not to thin these down as much as you would for a typical NY style slice.

In a home setting a simple Hunts or Contadina tomato paste would be the closest thing to the Saporito or Bonta. 

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2007, 08:48:30 PM »
The photos below show my latest cracker-style pizza based on the modified DKM cracker-style dough recipe.

The dough for this pizza was made almost identically to the last dough but for a few small changes. First, I used room temperature water instead of water at 135 degrees F on the basis that the dough would get plenty of heat in the proofing box without the need for the water temperature to be elevated to 135 degrees F. Second, I autolysed part of the flour (about half of it) and the total formula water, without the IDY mixed in with the flour as I did the last time. Instead, the IDY was combined with the rest of the dry ingredients (the rest of the flour, salt and sugar). Third, once the dough ball was formed from the popcorn-like dough pieces, the dough ball was put into the proofing box for 2 hours instead of 1 ½ hours. This small change appears to have been the most significant since the dough was very easy to roll out. In all respects, the dough and the rolled out skin at every stage were virtually identical to the last dough. The photos of the two dough balls up to the point where the skins were placed in the refrigerator were virtually indistinguishable.

After the skin was removed from the refrigerator (after about 2 days), it was prepared essentially identically to the last one except that I did a better job of fitting the latest skin into my 14” cutter pan, and I went back to the basic pepperoni style. As with the last skin, the one I worked on today shrunk a bit while it was in the refrigerator. However, I was able very easily to roll it back out to its original size (and more if I wanted) to nicely fit the cutter pan. The skin was docked on both sides before placement in the cutter pan (pre-oiled) and it was pre-baked for about 4 ½ minutes on the lowest oven rack position. The dressed pre-baked crust was baked for 8 minutes on the lowest oven rack position and for 2 minutes on the upper rack position, all at 475 degrees F.

The finished pizza was also very much like the last one in terms of the degree of crispiness and cracker quality. Interestingly, neither had the layered or flaky characteristic of the crusts that were based on using the food processor to make the two doughs. At this point, I would give the nod to the food processor over my KitchenAid mixer because of the ease and speed of preparation of the dough using the food processor and the more flaky cracker quality that I got (and liked) when I used the food processor to make the doughs. It remains to be seen if I can reproduce the results using the food processor for a larger pizza (14” vs. 12”).

I think the most significant advancement to date is the use of the proofing box to heat the dough before rolling it out. That technique pretty much solves the problem that a lot of people have had rolling out the DKM low-hydration dough (or any other low-hydration dough). It is the method I plan to use with future low-hydration doughs, at least until I find a better way. As future experiments unfold on this style, I will report back to the membership.

Peter

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2007, 12:51:11 AM »
Latest cracker crust....Tonites pie inspired by Peter. Taco pizza made with the following crust recipe last posted by Peter. Perfect for a 16" pie with no extra dough left over.

Flour (100%):
Water (36%):
IDY (1%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.5%):
Sugar (1.2%):
Total (143.45%):
 278.15 g  |  9.81 oz | 0.61 lbs
100.13 g  |  3.53 oz | 0.22 lbs
2.78 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
4.87 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
9.74 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.14 tsp | 0.71 tbsp
3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.84 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
399.01 g | 14.07 oz | 0.88 lbs | TF = 0.07
Note: Pizza size entered into the tool is 16”; desired final pizza size is 15”; no bowl residue compensation.

After making the dough, it rested on the counter for 24 hours. Then seeing as I don't have a proofing box as Peter described I filled a container with water that was 105-110 degrees and submerged the container of dough in it holding it down with a strip of duct tape and covered with a towel, added more hot water as needed to maintain temp. Proofed like that for about an hour, flipping the dough ball once. Dough rolled out great with no problem at all.

I rolled it to 16", docked on both sides and par-baked for 5 min. in a 500 degree oven on a fibrament pzza stone. I don't have a cutter pan so what I do is generously oil with olive oil or ghee on one side then stick heavy duty foil 18" wide to the oiled side and flip onto pizza peel. Then the foiled side goes to the stone for the par-bake. After I let it cool, then oil the top side before topping. Topping was a mix of diced tomatoes (drained) mixed with some taco sauce about 50/50, onions, gr peppers, bl olives and burger pre-fried with Tones taco seasoning, mozz and cheddar cheese with a little extra pizza seasoning sprinkled on. A few jalapeno peppers on 1/2 for me as the bride doesn't like them as much. Back in the oven til done at 475 on the foil/stone. Probably one of the best, crispiest crusts to date, Bubbley, crunchy and snapped when I ran the cutter thru it. I gotta figure a way to stop the maddness. Too many pizzas, and too many extra pounds going on. I guess I can blame all you guys for such a great wealth of info here ;-)   Great work guys, following is the latest pics.....
Jon

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2007, 09:51:53 AM »
Jon,

I'm glad that you were able to make the process work for you. I'm pleased also to see that you used the dough warming method at the end of the fermentation rather than at the beginning as I did. That is something I was planning to do at some point but hadn't gotten around to it just yet. What machine did you use to prepare the dough?

These pies can become addictive.

Peter

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2007, 10:28:27 AM »
Hi Peter,
I have a new Kitchen Aid Pro 600. I used the paddle on low/stir speed til it started to tighten up a bit then let rest/autolyse for 15 minutes then put that new fangled hook on for another 6-7 minutes. I gave my old KA to one of my daughters. I'm going to have to go get me a new, decent food processor though to try the dough out on that. Need one anyway for making my pasta dough, getting a real bad jones for some scratch pasta, especially leftover, thick-cut noodles fried in butter in the morning with some eggs....mmmmmm
Jon
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Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2007, 01:50:11 PM »
Hi Peter,

Have you decided to keep the par-baking in the recipe to reduce the "gummy-layer" below the toppings? Or do you feel the par-bake gives rise to more air pockets in the crust? -D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2007, 02:46:01 PM »
Dan,

I have decided to pre-bake mainly because I think it gives me greater control over the process and the end product, mainly in terms of the crispy and cracker characteristics of the finished crust. With pre-baking, I don't have to worry so much whether the cheese, sauce and toppings will be too weighty on the crust and slow down the bake such that I end up with a crust that isn't crispy or crackery enough for my taste. Also, I may not have to worry so much whether the skin is thin or thicker.

With my home oven and based on what I have learned so far, I think I will be inclined to use the pre-bake whether the dough is a low-hydration dough or a medium-hydration dough. I might change my mind if I go to a lamination method, as John has done with some of his experiments. Absent some form of lamination, I don't think that you can get around having to use a pre-bake with a medium-hydration dough (for example, a dough with a hydration of about 45-50%). With such a dough, I don't think you can load it up with cheese, sauce and toppings and expect to bake it in a home oven and produce a crust that is crispy and crackery. There is just too much mass for the oven heat to penetrate and drive out the moisture such that you end up with a dry and crispy and crackery crust. In that case, I think the risk of getting a pasty crust is fairly high. It is less with a low-hydration dough. However, it can still be an iffy proposition with a low-hydration dough. You might get a great crispy and crackery crust but, then again, you might not. My recollection from reading the posts on DKM's cracker-style dough recipe is that a lot of the members have been using a pre-bake.

Obviously, pre-baking crusts is impractical in a commercial setting. I am sure that the higher oven temperatures (around 650 degrees F) that are available with commercial deck ovens, along with laminating the doughs using a commercial sheeter, will allow one to bake pizzas without using a pre-bake and end up with a crispy and crackery crust. It may not matter whether the dough is a low-hydration dough or a medium-hydration dough. In my home setting, I have found that laminating skins is very hard. I haven't yet tried laminating a skin made from a warm low-hydration dough as I have been experimenting with, so I can't say yet whether it is a viable method. If so, I think I should be able to bake the pizza directly on a pizza stone, or in a cutter pan, without using a pre-bake. But I won't know for sure until I try it.

What I am ultimately after is coming up with a "system" that increases the likelihood of success by the people who try it.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 02:47:50 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2007, 03:24:38 PM »
Peter, Dan,
Although I've been making homemade pizzas for years this site and you guys have helped immensely, and my research not being as vast as you guys, in my experience the par-bake WAY out runs 'not' doing it for that crispy, bubbly, crunch as my last photos show. Also on a commercial level my favorite pizza joint, Savoy's Pizza in St Paul, MN uses par-baked crusts. I think they bake them off during the day, because when we go there to eat all the crusts are pre-rolled, and look par-baked and stacked above the prep station. They reach up and grab the size they want, top (generously) with toppings of choice and into the oven. It's a sturdy, cracker type of crust. Not as bubbly and crunchy as what we've been doing here but close. This last crust I did was one of the best yet. I found a good re-heating method rather than nuking and getting a soft crust or having to start up the whole oven is to put a couple slices in a large non-stick skillet, covered on low. Crust is snappy crispy and heats thru very nicely.
Jon
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Offline mbusse

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2007, 04:24:47 PM »
Pete,

I see you use vegetable oil in the latest test. Do the results vary if you use olive oil?
I looked but could not find a reference to the reason for using veg oil.

I will be trying this recipe and cooking at about 700F without prebake to see what I get.

Mark

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2007, 05:27:45 PM »
Mark,

You can use either. In fact, I have been using a light olive oil for the most part. The reason I specified vegetable oil is that DKM's original recipe specifies vegetable oil. I think DKM's recipe was a clone of what Pizza Inn used, and no doubt they used vegetable oil because it is cheaper than olive oil. There shouldn't be a reason why you can't use butter, or ghee, if you wish, in lieu of the oil. Technically, you would adjust the formula hydration a bit because butter includes 16% water (salted) or 18% (unsalted). Ghee, one of Jon's favorites, is 100% fat, with no water. Tom Lehmann has a cracker-style dough recipe that calls optionally for butter in the dough. I would think that butter, or ghee, would add nice flavor tones to a cracker-style crust.

I look forward to the results of your 700 degree F bake. That may tell us a lot.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 05:29:25 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2007, 02:49:05 PM »
Having established that it was possible to use the dough warming method I previously described with the modified DKM low-hydration doughs prepared using a food processor and a stand mixer, I wondered whether it would be possible to use the same dough warming method with a low-hydration dough prepared another way—specifically, by hand. I wasn’t sure whether I could actually make such a dough by hand but having paid careful attention to the dough physics of my last several doughs discussed in this thread, I decided to attempt an experiment to see if I could replicate the dough physics in a hand kneaded dough.

For the experiment, I decided to make enough dough for a 12” pizza. For this purpose, I used the same dough formulation as the last one but entered a value of 13” for the desired pizza size into the expanded dough calculating tool. From a skin of 13” I would cut a 12” final skin. The dough formulation I used was as follows:

Flour (100%):
Water (36%):
IDY (1%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.5%):
Sugar (1.2%):
Total (143.45%):
183.62 g  |  6.48 oz | 0.4 lbs
66.1 g  |  2.33 oz | 0.15 lbs
1.84 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
3.21 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.58 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
6.43 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.42 tsp | 0.47 tbsp
2.2 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.55 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
263.41 g | 9.29 oz | 0.58 lbs | TF = 0.07

To prepare the dough, I started by sifting the flour (Harvest King), to which I added the IDY and stirred to incorporate. The formula water, at room temperature, was then placed into a large mixing bowl, and the salt and sugar were added to the water and stirred until dissolved, about 30 seconds. The flour/IDY was then added at about two tablespoons at a time into the water in the bowl, using a standard kitchen fork to incorporate the ingredients. I continued this until approximately two-thirds of the flour had been added and a fairly wet dough mass had formed around the fork. The reason I used the fork was to minimize gluten development, which could make the finished dough more difficult to roll out. I estimate that the dough mass formed around the fork had a hydration of about 52%. I then covered the bowl with a towel and let the dough rest for about 15 minutes, to allow for better hydration of the flour.

At the end of the 15-minute rest period, I added the remaining flour to the bowl, along with the oil. I combined the ingredients in the bowl as best I could by gently kneading them right in the bowl. The contents of the bowl were then emptied onto a work surface. I tried to incorporate the remaining ingredients as best I could, knowing that I would not be able to make a cohesive dough ball by hand. So, I took the dough ball as it had been formed to this point and tore it into small pieces about the size a nickel. I then spread the dough pieces and flour over the work surface into a fairly thin layer. The first photo below shows the results of that exercise. Using a simple spray bottle as shown in the second photo below, I then sprayed the dough materials on the work surface with water from the spray bottle. I estimate that it took about 20-25 sprays to cover everything.

I then gathered and pressed the dough pieces and loose flour together until I had a dough ball that held together. This turned out to be an easy task. I pressed the dough tightly between my cupped hands but I did not knead the dough ball because I did not want to overly develop the gluten structure. The third photo below shows the dough ball at this stage. I later estimated that adding the additional water by way of the spray bottle increased the hydration of the dough from its starting value of 36% to about 38.5%. So, the dough was still a low-hydration dough.

The finished dough ball then went into my proofing box for about 2 hours at a temperature of around 110-115 degrees F. The dough about doubled while in the proofing box. The fourth photo below shows the dough ball at that point. I then flattened the dough ball gently by hand and rolled it out to 13”. This was extremely easy to do—much easier than I was expecting. From the 13” skin, I cut a 12” skin using a 12” pizza screen as a template. The fifth photo below shows the 12” skin. I calculated that the thickness factor for the skin was 0.0615 based on a dough weight of 6.95 ounces. As before, I dusted the skin with a bit of flour, folded it into quarters, encased it in plastic wrap (as shown in the sixth photo below), and put it into the refrigerator. The dough remained in the refrigerator for about 2 days.

After I removed the dough skin from the refrigerator and let it warm up at room temperature for about an hour and a half, I rolled it out a bit more to compensate for minor shrinkage while the dough was in the refrigerator. After docking the 12” skin on both sides, I placed it into my 14” cutter pan that I had lightly pre-oiled. As before, the skin was then pre-baked, removed from the oven to be dressed (in this case with only sauce and cheese), and returned to the oven to complete the baking of the pizza. I estimate that the pre-bake took about 4 minutes, and the rest of the bake took about 7 minutes on the lowest oven rack position and a final 2 minutes at the topmost oven rack position, all at 475 degrees F.  The photos in the next post show the pre-baked crust and the finished pizza. 

The pizza was delicious, with a crispy and crackery crust. The pizza was the equal of the others in just about all respects. More importantly, the results demonstrate that it is possible to easily make a low-hydration dough by hand and, by using the dough warming method, to make a very good cracker-style pizza out of that hand kneaded dough.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2007, 02:57:11 PM »
And the photos of the pre-baked crust and the finished pizza...




Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2007, 03:38:02 PM »
Pete,
A question for you. It's probably been asked before but, have you tried using beer instead of water with your cracker crust, and how was it different, good/bad?? I made a cracker recipe yesterday that I will be cooking in a few hours and I forgot I was going to try beer in it. I'll try and post some pics later. Just looking for reproducible results from my last one which for me, was perfect. My buddy who doesn't cook but like eating it said it can't get better than the last one and he doesn't think I can do it twice. So why am I wanting to goof with it by trying beer??? The old saying...'because I can'... I guess. Just want to see if it would make a big difference or not. Your thoughts??
Jon
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2007, 03:45:43 PM »
Jon,

No, I haven't tried beer, although I know that other members have used beer for other styles of pizza. It may be worth a try, however, with the cracker style. My thoughts in the flavor department is to use butter in the dough or possibly a natural preferment, just as I tried with the Lehmann cracker-style dough formulation.

Peter

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2007, 04:25:26 PM »
Still off work from my ankle surgery, probably til middle of Dec. so all I got is time...more pizza and more belly. I'll give the beer a try sometime this next week and let you know what I think. Not that I'm unhappy with what I've got, just curious on the flavor difference. Got all my stuff cut and prepped for tonites pie. By the way that last one you posted looked great.
Jon
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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2007, 11:09:41 AM »
Last nites pie. Crust was done as described by Pete's last post using his DKM recipe. Mixed with paddle til machine started to work heavy than autolysed for 15 minutes and finished with dough hook and proofed on counter for 28 hours. Before rolling I put container in a 110 degree water bath for 1 hr and rolled out great, docked on both sides, and oiled generously with ghee and flipped onto heavy duty foil and placed on stone for par-baking in a 500 degree oven. Got a little done in a couple spots as I was distracted making drinks for myself and guests...priorities... Crust got a real nice spread of bubbles. After crust was cooled it was again coated with ghee on the top to waterproof and then topped with sauce and cheese followed with onions, sausage, gr peppers, wild maitaki/hen of the woods mushrooms and more cheese the finished with some bacon crumbles. Crust was very airy, lite and crispy but at the same time sturdy enough to hold up to the toppings. Again thanks to Pete, DKM and others here who do all the leg work to make these recipes so much easier for the rest of us. As always great job guys, I think I've finally got this cracker crust dog whipped in to pretty good shape.
Here's some pics, again sorry for the cell phone pics, maybe Xmas will show up with a new dig camera!
Thanks all and if I don't post before... Everyone Have A Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain


Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2007, 11:31:31 AM »
Forgot to add one observation. There was 4 of us eating the pie last nite and when we were chewing, it literally sounded like we all were eating potato chips, that's how crispy it was in spite of some generous toppings.
Jon
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2007, 11:46:43 AM »
Using all the helpful hints and knowledge passed on so far...I had to try one more.  Made a 36% dough..thoroughly undermixed in my kitchenaid.  Let dough rise in a previously warmed oven for 2 hours.  Rolled a sheet of dough about one quarter inch thick...(very easily, since dough was warm).  Folded this sheet into three layers (remember, I'm convinced it is the compression of this dough which makes it good) and rolled it out again into a thin sheet (Not to hard and I was pleased I didn't have to work the hell out of it).  Cut out two skins using a template..and refrigerated overnight.  The next day, took skins out to warm up an hour...the skins were 7 inches in diameter and weighed 3.5 ounces,  there was about a half inch shrinkage from what I cut the day before.
The skins are not prebaked, they are simply dressed and thrown right on the oven stone in a 500 degree oven...they took about 8 minutes to cook...the results were fabulous...I could sell hundreds of these every day.  A previous post had concern that the skins were doughy looking.....the proper way to see if a skin is cooked is to look at a cross section that has been torn...not cut...and I tried to show this difference in the photos.  The bottom was crisp and tender....the dark coloration is a little mustard and pepperoni grease getting under the skin.  This was an excellent pizza...at least in what I'm looking for.
John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2007, 01:43:16 PM »
I made a long-needed upgrade to my proofing box. I added a window so that I can see what is happening to the dough while in the proofing box. I also moved the instant read thermometer to the left side panel. I just poked it through the Styrofoam.

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2007, 02:11:58 PM »
I think I've finally got this cracker crust dog whipped in to pretty good shape.

Jon,

I am paraphrasing somewhat, but I believe it was Randy who said that the DKM cracker-style pizza was one of the easiest to make but which requires close attention to the steps involved in the preparation of the pizza. I believe he is correct. I, too, think that it is one of the easiest recipes to practice. So, if you follow the steps carefully, such as the steps I tried to lay out in detail with my experiments, one should have a pretty good chance of success. In fact, the last experiment shows that one doesn't even need a food processor or stand mixer to achieve good results. All that one needs to make and process the dough is a large bowl, a kitchen fork, an inexpensive spray bottle, a rolling pin, and a pair of hands. It may even be possible to dispense with the sieve and sifting the flour (although I haven't tried that yet).

Of course, a source of heat for heating the dough is an important part of my "system". It can be a simple proofing box like mine, an MR-138 ThermoKool unit, a hot bowl of water (such as you used), or a preheated oven (as John used). I believe that heating the dough takes the pressure off of the dough to be perfect, or nearly so. I use a digital scale to weigh the flour and water, but heating the dough may allow more slack in the dough such that one may even be able to use volume measurements of flour and water and still get good results. I am not necessarily advocating that approach simply because I like to get consistent results and the digital scale plays into that objective.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 02:30:35 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2007, 02:28:37 PM »
The heating the dough before rolling thing definately makes a big difference. I've made several without doing that and as soon as I read about your proofing box I did the even cheaper version in the hot water bath, BIG difference when rolling. I think one does need to take care not to get too hot though. I to keep the water bath 105-110 degrees for an hour and the dough is well warmed thru. And being an avid sausage maker and blending diffent spices, I agree, digital gram scale is a must. I have 2, one that measures grams or ounces and the other grams, ounces or tenth of a gram both with tare buttons to zero. I wouldn't be without them.
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2007, 03:07:40 PM »
Wow very intersting results. John, did you use the same recipe or your own secret one? It seems like the lamination process ensured that there would be a thicker bottom layer which would remain crispy. The air pockets in the crust John made are all "above" this bottom crust layer. Whereas in the pizza Peter made, the bubbles appear to be more random in the finished crust. Also, it seems like the prebake of Peter's crust helped compensate for any differences in oven types and the lack of a sheeter. I am really impressed at the results you have obtained Peter without a sheeter nor folding the dough while rolling it out.

I have a question for Peter; During the process you ripped the doughball up into little pieces then just pressed them together. Do you think even though the dough was proofed this way that it's these "unincorporated" pieces that are giving rise to the bubbles in the crust? In other words, it's this ripped up "scraps" that bubble up because there is trapped moisture there from the water bottle? Basically it seems like this is successfully (not quite 100%) compensating for not laminating the dough in a sheeter. Even in the shot you have of the unbaked crust, you can see the scraps that aren't incorporated. This lends heavy support for scrap dough being used in this crust, which may be the cause for the inconsistencies at most "cracker" type parlours.

Another observation is Jon's pizza (jackitup). There doesn't seem to be the same amount of large size voids compared to the other two. This seems to be strictly technique, because he used the same recipe as Peter. However, if you look at the dough ball, it's really incorporated much more than what Peter did.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 03:59:58 PM by DNA Dan »

Offline fazzari

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2007, 05:07:21 PM »
Hey Dan,
I didn't use a sheeter.  This was all done at home
John

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2007, 05:13:34 PM »
Rolled a sheet of dough about one quarter inch thick...(very easily, since dough was warm).  Folded this sheet into three layers (remember, I'm convinced it is the compression of this dough which makes it good) and rolled it out again into a thin sheet (Not to hard and I was pleased I didn't have to work the hell out of it).  Cut out two skins using a template..and refrigerated overnight. 
John

Oh my bad! I read your post incorrectly. Your usage of the word "sheet" got me all excited! I definitely have to try this recipe now. Ignoring my previous comments, I think the question still stands about the "shredded" dough.