Author Topic: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style  (Read 86195 times)

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Offline fazzari

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2007, 01:52:41 PM »
Peter
It is entirely possible that maybe we're looking for different skins altogether.  I'm not a huge fan of thin and crispy (although I would never turn it down).  I got to thinking about why I originally went with the long room temp ferment...and now I remember, that at 40%, I didn't feel the kitchenaid would develop the dough I needed to laminate....so, I tried using time to help me with that after reading about the no knead bread...but was amazed at the difference in taste and so I will always use this method for homebuilding this crust again.  Another funny aside,...I cannot bring my skins from work and cook in my oven...I can't get the oven hot enough and this just ruins the crust.  But with the method I tried at home the oven was perfect.  In fact the first batch I had the oven all the way up and they were to crackery for me...but when I turned the oven down to 500 they were perfect.
In answer to your question about which thickness I preferred....our 7 inch pizza at work is about 4 ounces and I just don't think it gets better than that for my taste.

Thanks for all your help
John


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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2007, 02:00:43 PM »
Peter,
I read your latest post last nite and you got my pizza bug biting so even with the eff'd up ankle I made the DKM crust. As described it came out very 'scrappy'. I let it rest for 4 hours and then took it back out and re-kneaded by hand a little to get things a little more incorporated and more of a satiny appearance on the outside and put it back it a covered oiled container to rest for the rest of the 24 hour countertop proof. I'll try and post some pics of the results tonite.
On another note, I had my daughter pick me up some cheese last nite, some regular cheap mozz and some Bel Gioioso fresh. I tok the advice from another thread and nuked it and re-kneaded it to get the extra whey out so as to not water down the pizza and it went from a mushy texture to a very nice firm texture. The surprizing part was that on a 16oz chunk of the fresh stuff I got 4oz of whey, 25%!! That turns a $8.49/lb chunk of cheese into $10.61/ chunk of cheese. Even with the price of milk where it's at I think a guy's better off making his own fresh mozz. I think it's time to start playing around with making my own fresh cheese again and getting better quality and cheaper too.
Just smelled the dough after what would be about 17-18 hours now and WOW, plenty of aroma in there. Can't wait to roll it out and get'rgoin tonite!!
Jon
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Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2007, 05:10:54 PM »
In my opinion, it's not the low hydration that particularly makes the cracker crust, but rather the lamination process.  So, without the use of sheeters, one must find a way to laminate dough without over-rolling as this causes unwelcome toughness.  To do this, compromises have to be made...your idea of using warmer water is a good one and I know it matters tremendously at work.  But, I also think that you can experiment with developing the dough a bit more in the mixing stage....I know with my kitchenaid mixer, the 45% dough came together a lot easier than the drier doughs...yet, I kept it way undermixed..and since I've been playing around with long room temp ferments, I thought , why not, so I did....I really didn't know what to expect, and so I was flabbergasted at the results for a first try.

Hi John, So do you feel that you can take a wide range of hydrations using a proper sheeter and still produce a laminated crust that crisps up? It just seems like there really isn't much working around the sheeter on this one, because either you are going to create a totally different dough, or the method will effect the cooking, flavor profile, crumb, etc.

You also mentioned that dough from your restaurant doesn't cook the same as it does at home. I think this is typical of what a lot of other folks have often asked on these forums. Do you feel that the high temps are a necessity to make a laminated dough properly?

Thanks for the comments so far, this thread has been a great read.

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2007, 10:48:17 PM »
Tonites pie....
Par-baked, with onions, gr peppers, mushrooms, sausage and Bel Gioioso cheese on top of the sauce and some cheaper Crystal Farms on the top. I like the diced cheese better than the shredded as someone posted in a different thread, doesn't cook as fast and melts in with the toppings a bit better without browning too fast. Only thing I can bust myself on is I should have rolled the dough a bit thinner, but all and all a very good pie. Also top and bottom were generously coated with ghee to get a crispier crunch on the bottom (thus the foil, then placed on the stone) and to help seal the top before the sauce. You guys have helped my pizza skills to a huge degree and once again I thank you.
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2007, 10:58:34 PM »
Jon,

Very nice.

Did you use the original DKM dough recipe or one of my thinner versions?

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2007, 08:51:57 AM »
Hi Peter,
The original one by DKM http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php.
As I said, the only thing I can bust myself on is not rolling it thin enough. But as you can see, I have a hard time using a lite hand on the toppings so it works out just fine with the heavier 'top end'.
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline fazzari

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2007, 12:39:48 PM »
Okay
I tried an experiment I should have tried long, long ago.  Yesterday I mixed up a batch of dough (33.5% hydration)...this is at work.  I let it double, and then I sheeted a 20 pound piece of dough and cut a 10 inch, 7.7 ounce skin out of the sheet.  I then folded the sheet and re-rolled (laminated) the dough and cut out a 10 inch 7.3 ounce skin.  Both skins were refrigerated overnight.  I then baked both with the same toppings in the same oven (650 degrees).  The top pictures should be the sheeted skin, while the bottom ones are the laminated one.  The outside appearance of both pizzas are quite similar.  The bottom of the sheeted crust is way more spotty....the laminated crust seemed to brown evenly all the way across the bottom.  The textures were completely different..  the sheeted crust was crispy, crackery...the laminated crust was crispy, tender.

I'm not here to pass judgement on the skins...although I will always take tender over crackery, because everyone likes something different.  I'm just trying to point out that one recipe can make two completely different products with slight modifications. 

You know I've never broken down my procedures this far in 30 years..I was taught by the 'monkey see-monkey do" method and so it is very interesting to me to see why things work the way they do.

Now, here's a question...why is the lamination so much different...is it because of cell compression, or is it the actual dough Kneading like action of the extra roll.

That was fun
John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2007, 03:32:48 PM »
John,

Purely by coincidence, I did a similar experiment today but using a 2-ounce dough ball that I gathered from scrap from one of my recent doughs. I put the dough ball into the refrigerator until today, when I decided to run my own test with it. The dough ball had been in the refrigerator for about 3-4 days, but it was about 5-6 days old total counting the two days that it had spent in the refrigerator as part of the initial dough.

After removing the dough ball from the refrigerator, I put it into my proofing box to warm it to around 104 degrees F to hopefully allow me to roll out the dough more easily. I decided that I would use the fold and re-roll lamination method. The dough rolled out fairly easily to start but it became tougher to roll out once I folded it and re-rolled, which I did a couple of times. Fortunately, I didn’t have to roll the skin out to a large size since the amount of dough I had would only make a roughly 6-7” pizza (with a skin thickness factor of about 0.06). Once the dough was rolled out to that size, I docked it on both sides and placed in into a 7” dark, anodized nonperforated cutter pan (also from pizzatools.com). I had pre-oiled the cutter pan as before.

This time, I did not pre-bake the crust. I just dressed it as usual and baked it at 475 degrees F for about 10 minutes, on the lowest oven rack position. I noticed that it took longer for the crust to brown, but I was not surprised and actually expected it since, as noted above, the dough was about 5-6 days old. The photos below show the finished pizza.

As you experienced, the crust was crispy but tender rather than crispy and crackery. As can be seen in the middle photo below, there were not a lot of obvious layers to produce the cracker-like characteristic. However, the pizza was delicious nonetheless. It made for a nice snack for lunch today.

I wouldn’t try to make too much out of today’s experiment other than that it is possible to make a pretty good pizza out of the leftover dough scraps after several days. I would want to do a more straightforward test of the lamination method using fresher dough, either same day or a day or two later, to see if I reproduce the results I got today.

Peter

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2007, 03:53:25 PM »
John,

I don't have a sheeter, but I have used the pasta roller method and have done a similar experiment before. It's my experience that the laminated doughs come out tender because you get a "steaming" effect between the layers as it cooks. You're basically trapping more air bubbles between the layers. The more layers I would make, the more gummy the topside of the crust became, to a point though, too many and you just get one solid reincorporated dough. So there is a fine balance there between sheeted once, twice, three times, or too much. I think on the flip side of things, pastries like croissants call for multiple thin layers but they are also slathered in butter. It's very difficult to produce more than 9 layers (3 passes through a sheeter folding in thirds each time.) with flour alone and not resort to some sort of fat to keep the layers separate.

Have you tried different hydrations with respect to the lamination process? Could you please address some of the questions I posted earlier? Many thanks.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2007, 04:07:49 PM »
Now, here's a question...why is the lamination so much different...is it because of cell compression, or is it the actual dough Kneading like action of the extra roll.

John,

After posting my last reply, I got to thinking about the question you posed. I think the answer has to do with the degree of rolling of the dough and how much the cellular structure in the dough is compacted by the rolling process. In my case, I ended up rolling the dough so hard that it was like a thin sheet when I was done without any real texture to it. I put a light sprinkling of flour between the layers as I folded the skin, and that seemed to create a bit more distinct layering effect, but it apparently disappeared when I re-rolled.

I think one solution is the one I used with an early Lehmann cracker-style dough that I made where I took the initial dough ball and divided it into two smaller balls, each of which was rolled out separately very thinly as far as I could roll it out. I then superimposed the two skins, with a bit of flour between them, crimped the edges together, and then rolled out the lamination to the desired size. With that method, I got a crispy and crackery effect. It also occurred to me that I could have misted the bottom skin before superimposing the top skin with a bit of water to create moisture that would convert to steam and cause the skin to expand outwardly under the influence of the oven heat, thereby creating a crackery effect. I even thought of adding small dabs of butter between the layers. The danger with this method as I saw it at the time was that one had to be careful as not to make the skin too wet and difficult to roll out the lamination as a result. I guess what I am saying is that one perhaps has to create separate layers and superimpose them to get a quasi-laminated effect. Using a thin skin and pre-baking the crust, as I did with the earlier modified DKM dough, seems to get around that. Yet, there was nothing to complain about with today's mini-pizza. It was very good, and I would be happy with crispy and tender as an end result any day.

So, it seems that maybe the sheeter you have at work compresses the laminated skin just as my hand roller does, creating a final skin without much texture.

Peter

Offline fazzari

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2007, 06:35:04 PM »
Just my opinion, but it's not the layering effect per se which makes this skin so good.  Imagine this, in a restaurant setting, you roll out a long sheet of dough, fold it up and roll it again, at which time you use round templates to cut out skins.  The next batch you roll out a sheet, after which you add all of the scraps of dough from the previous batch, fold and sheet again, .....so you see, after the first batch there really is no layering, its a lot of rolled scraps reintroduced into a new sheet of dough.  So, it has more to do with the compression of the crust.
As I've said in another post somewhere, I've replaced shafts in my huge mixers, because the dough sheared them...I've also sent back brand new sheeters, which couldn't do the job with low hydro dough..it seems as if only the older equipment is bullet proof, but they are getting harder to find.....so you see, trying to replicate this kind of product at home has been a lot of fun, because up to maybe a month ago, I would have thought it was impossible, but it can be done with modifications to the dough.
As for me Peter, I like the look of your last pizza the best...I can tell just by looking at it, this was a good pizza. 
Dan, I'm not saying you can use a range of hydrations to make a good cracker crust....I'm saying somehow, you've gotta get as low a hydration dough as you can, and you have to get it workable with your rolling pin or pasta sheeter or whatever you use.  But also beware....you might be looking for a different crust...I don't particularly enjoy tough, crackery crusts....I shoot for tender and crispy.....also, I have found you can very easily over laminate  and end up with a tough cracker.  Having said all of this guys, there are so many variables that change this type of crust...it is a very hard crust to get consistent.  This week i'm having a hell of a time, because the flour (the same kind we've used for years), is so strong.  You guys would love working with me and my brother, we talk dough every single day!!
It's been 30 years and we're still looking for perfection.
Dan, just one more thing...when my skins are perfect, the heat from the stone travels through the crust very easily...it has to because we use raw beef and sausage on our skins and they are usually cooked in 6 to 8 minutes.....it's when the heat is not coming through, that we screen our crusts to give them more time to cook.

Thanks guys

John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2007, 07:28:01 PM »
John,

I remember reading a piece by Tom Lehmann, who grew up on the South side of Chicago where the cracker-style pizzas were very popular at the time, and he said that when eating a cracker-style pizza you were supposed to end up with a bunch of crumbs in your lap. And that you wanted to hear the crust "crack" when the pizza cutter ran through it. That is what I was shooting for when I started making that style of pizza. Since then, I have seen that there are many variations and nuances of "crispy" and "cracker" and also that you can have a combination of crispy and tender. The last pizza of mine that you liked was the crispy and tender type. It was different than the other pizzas I made and reported on in this thread, but I liked it a lot nonetheless. More importantly for me, I think I have learned a lot more about how to use and work with low-hydration doughs in a home oven environment. At some point, after I have done a few more experiments with the DKM dough recipe, I hope to take what I have learned here back over to the Lehmann medium-hydration cracker-style doughs to make them work better in a home oven setting. I also plan at some point to give the dough formulation you use in your restaurant a try in my home oven. That one should be very interesting because it is a low-hydration dough but not crackery.

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2007, 07:32:55 PM »
Ok, this cracker crust thing is getting real contagious.  I, too, experimented with one the last couple of days.  I attempted to duplicate somewhat the process that Pete mentioned in Reply #16 above using the exact same modified DKM dough formulation mentioned therein with some Harvest Gold flour.  This was my second attempt at a cracker crust as my first attempt about 7 or 8 months ago was not very good. This seemed to be a very difficult dough to master.   I've shied away from trying it again until I read about Pete's many recent adventures on the subject (he's got to be tired of eating cracker crust pizzas by now!). 

I don't have a food processor and didn't want to pull out the big mixer, but used my Emeril hand mixer (don't laugh) instead with the dough hooks.  I usually do most of my dough mixing by hand anyway.  Boy, this is a super dry dough.  I used hot water which was around 128 degrees and instead of a "proofing box," I put the flattened dough ball in a covered bowl in the slightly warmed oven (around 110 to 115 degrees) for two hours.  I was really surprised to see after 2 hours that the dough hadn't risen at all.  Not a bit.  This is the first time I had not proofed the yeast in warm water for 5 or 10 minutes for pizza dough purposes, but instead used what I thought was IDY, but now I'm wondering if it was.  The grocery store usually carries the ADY and another type of "quick rise" yeast (Red Star), which is what I used (picture below). 

Offline BTB

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2007, 07:34:25 PM »
After a couple of hours, I attempted to roll out the dough with my big wooden roller.  Wow, it was very difficult.  Not easy at all.  And when I couldn't get it to a nice round 13" circle, I took some pieces of dough that angled off and attempted to roll it onto the skin so it would be more circular.  But no matter how hard I tried, I could not combine the pieces of dough together.  I don't know how anyone could accomplish the "lamination" as some had mentioned without some special sheeter equipment.  I finally rolled it out to a very thin thickness factor (est. it to be .05 to .06), folded it in half and put it in the refrigerator in plastic wrap for around 30 hours.  At this point I was kind of discouraged and was wondering whether I should discard the dough and discontinue the experiment, but I went forward today anyway.

Offline BTB

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2007, 07:42:14 PM »
After a 90 minute warm up on the counter, I put the cracker crust skin in my oiled cutter pan, docked it a lot with a fork, and pre-baked it in the oven at 475 degrees for around 4 and 1/2 minutes.  Afterwards I dressed it up with sauce, topping and cheese (I did the traditional way with the cheese on top of the sauce) and baked it for an additional 8 or 9 minutes, with switching it from the low rack to the high rack (also with use of the convection oven feature for the last few minutes).  Pictures of the final product are below.  While the pizza was not quite as crispy and crackery as I would have liked, I was pleasantly surprised that it actually tasted pretty good.  Better than a lot of pizza places that I've tried recently (especially down here in Florida).  It was good enough to convince me that I'm on the right track and to further experiment with this crust and see what how it can be improved upon.  I think next time I will revert back to using  ADY that has worked so well for me with other doughs. 

Thanks, Pete, for all your hard work and effort on this style of pizza dough.  I'm glad you took the lead in this area as it hadn't received too much attention in the past.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2007, 08:33:06 PM »
BTB,

Considering all that you went through, I would say that you did pretty well for a start. However, I can assure you that it can be done much more easily that what you experienced. But it was good to know what you did because it convinces me more than ever that a critical part of the process is the use of a food processor to prepare the dough. There is an entire thread on the forum devoted to using a stand mixer to make the DKM cracker-style dough, but having used a stand mixer before to make cracker-style doughs, even those with much greater hydration, I can tell you that it is not really up to the task, and certainly not my basic KitchenAid mixer with a C-hook. Every DKM dough I have made with my food processor has been just about perfect and very easy to produce. It is important to weigh the flour and water, but the rest of the ingredients can be volume measurements. Next time, if I remember, I will take a photo of the dough mixture as it comes out of my food processor so you can see what the texture of the mixture should ideally look like.

The yeast you used is a variation of IDY. It is the SAF counterpart to the Fleishchman's Rapid-Rise yeast. It should have worked. As for the rise in the dough, I went back to my notes and saw that the dough in my case rose about a third during the two hours in the proofing box. Even then, it was hard to tell because the dough slumped and filled the corners of the storage container, making it difficult to tell how much it actually rose. Hence, I didn't pay too much attention to that.

In addition to the food processor, and pre-baking the dough skin, I think the cutter pan is an important part of the equation to achieve good results and ease of preparation of the pizza in a home environment. If you didn't have a cutter pan at your disposal, it is quite likely that you wouldn't have been able to finish your pizza. Even if the dough skin isn't perfect, if you can get it into the cutter pan, you have a chance of success.

The biggest obstacle in your case is likely to be in getting the proper dough to begin with. Using the electric hand mixer isn't likely to be adequate for that purpose. You might want to drag your mixer out and use that next time. You might even read the thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1628.0.html) that deals with the use of a stand mixer to make the DKM dough to see what was recommended there.

Peter


« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 07:56:22 AM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2007, 09:05:57 AM »
I agree the food processor would be better. This dough comes out with a density more akin to a pasta dough than a bread/pizza dough and a good food processor would hold up better and do a better job. I have a homemade, scratch pasta dough recipe that I got from a restaurant owner in Mexico that calls for the dough to be mixed to 112 degr. 'BY FRICTION' starting with room temp ingredients, and the only thing that would do it was my old Waring food processor that I recenly laid to rest after 25+ years of faithfull service (very sad day). Now I have to pick out a new one, just haven't got around to getting one yet.
Jon
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2007, 12:06:58 PM »
BTB,

I did some testing with my electric oven this morning to see if I could get it to a stable temperature of around 110-120 degrees F so that I could use the oven in lieu of the proofing box to warm up the dough. My oven has no temperature readout and I discovered that my oven knob setting starts at 150 degrees F and that my oven thermometers start measuring at around 200 degrees F. When I turned the oven on at a setting below 200 degrees F, the oven heated up too much, especially the racks. I knew this from using my IR thermometer. I found that I could put a pizza stone in the oven and get the temperature of the stone around 125 degrees F, but it would take some tests to determine how to get to that temperature consistently and reliably. So, for now, I will stick with my proofing box because I can set it at its maximum operating temperature of around 115 degrees F and it will stay there for as long as I want.

It occurred to me as I was testing my oven that unless you had a way of knowing the temperature of your oven when you put your dough into it, it is possible that the oven heat was too high and killed the yeast in your dough. Yeast starts to become dormant at around 140 degrees F and dies at around 145 degrees F. At around 153 degrees F, the starch is gelatinized but still swelling.

I might add that you could have still ended up with a pizza even if the yeast died. As we know from the Shakey's experience, it is possible to make a cracker-style pizza without any yeast in the dough. But the dough would still have to be at a temperature to work with.

I have gone back to my post in which I suggested the oven as a possibility in lieu of the proofing box and noted in an edit to see this post.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 01:04:02 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline fazzari

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2007, 02:44:05 PM »
Just one more experiment!
I made a batch of 45% dough, let it set at room temp for 12 hours...I then rolled out the dough into a quarter inch sheet, folded the dough into 3 layers and rolled just as thin as I could, may be a bit less than one quarter inch.  Cut out 2 skins and refrigerated over night.  Took out the skins and let them warm up about 1 hour...I then took one skin and rolled it thinner....it was very, very, very easy to do and so this skin ended up being 8.75 inches and weighed 5.75 ounce.  The other skin I left alone..it was a 9.5inch skin which weighed 9.5 ounces.  Cooked both at 475 degrees, right on the pizza stone .  Both pizzas were tender, crispy and delicious..but the one I rolled thinner, even left crumbs the way the Dough Doctor describes from his childhood.  The top pictures should be the one I rolled even thinner.
John

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2007, 04:34:02 PM »
John,

Thanks for keeping the experiments coming. I don't recall offhand whether I folded and re-rolled the skins when I made the 45-50% hydration Lehmann doughs. I didn't roll out the skins until after one day of room-temperature fermentation, and it was very easy to roll them out. When I get back to my Lehmann cracker-style experiments, I will try the fold and re-roll method.

I have found the 36% hydration doughs to be a greater challenge although I think I am making good progress toward that end.

Over the last couple of days I prepared some doughs using my basic KitchenAid stand mixer. Even though I like the food processor better than my KitchenAid for the low-hydration doughs, I want to see if I can make a decent dough and pizza when using the KitchenAid.

Peter

Offline mr.monte

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2007, 09:29:15 AM »
Has anybody made the  thin crackery dough and topped it and froze it to bake at a later time ? I'm pretty happy with my recipe, but I noticed when  I topped a few ( I always par-bake a couple minutes ) and froze them for later cooking that when I baked them, the crust was WAY more crispy, in fact almost crunchy.

Offline mr.monte

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2007, 09:30:33 AM »
Does anybody have a good pizza sauce recipe ? Im glad I got into making my own pizzas as all the "Good" pizza joints around here are going to pre-made crusts and they are horrible.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2007, 10:15:32 AM »
Has anybody made the  thin crackery dough and topped it and froze it to bake at a later time ?

mr.monte,

Making and freezing the dough with cheese, sauce and toppings is not generally considered to be a good idea because of the damage that is done to the yeast by freezing. However, it is possible to use a chemical leavening system like WRISE in the dough, which is similar to what is used by the frozen pizza manufacturers when they make frozen pizzas like DiGiorno's. The chemical leavenings systems kick in only during baking of the frozen pizza. That way, the dough can still rise even though there is yeast damage. The negative of the chemical leavening systems is that they impart their own unique flavor to the crust (there is baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate, or SALP, in the WRISE product). To mask the taste of the chemicals, it is usually recommended that high sugar levels be used in the dough--something around 5% by weight of flour.

As you noted, most of the major pizza chains have gone to frozen par-baked dough/skins. They are made at commissaries and delivered to the individual shops where they are kept frozen and later thawed for daily use. Some of the frozen cracker-style crusts also include things like baking soda.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2007, 10:22:44 AM »
Does anybody have a good pizza sauce recipe ?

mr.monte,

The only sauce recipe that comes to mind for the cracker style pizza is the one at http://www.pizzamaking.com/thincrust.php. However, I can't vouch for the recipe since I haven't tried it. In my experiments with the DKM cracker-style pizza and variations, the only sauce I have been using is the basic 6-in-1 tomatoes right out of the can with a little dried Italian oregano from my garden. That's it. I kept the sauce simple so that it wouldn't take away from the flavors of the rest of the pizzas. Having made several pizzas that way recently, I have gotten quite fond of the sauce.

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2007, 11:01:18 AM »
As I mentioned in Reply 44, I decided to see if I could make a decent cracker-style dough using my KitchenAid stand mixer in lieu of my Cuisinart food processor. In part it was because I thought that other members like BTB without food processors might be interested but I also wondered whether the results using the two different machines would be similar.

As will be described below, as part of my strategy in using the KitchenAid machine I decided to use the same basic methods as previously described in order to get improved hydration of the flour, but also to minimize development of the gluten as much as possible so that the dough would be easier to roll out. I also decided to increase the size of the finished pizza to 15”, the size of my cutter pan including the sloping sides. For purposes of the expanded dough calculating tool, I used 16”, or one inch greater than the desired final size. As before, I used a thickness factor of 0.07. The formulation I used looked like this:

Flour (100%):
Water (36%):
IDY (1%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.5%):
Sugar (1.2%):
Total (143.45%):
278.15 g  |  9.81 oz | 0.61 lbs
100.13 g  |  3.53 oz | 0.22 lbs
2.78 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
4.87 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
9.74 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.14 tsp | 0.71 tbsp
3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.84 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
399.01 g | 14.07 oz | 0.88 lbs | TF = 0.07
Note: Pizza size entered into the tool is 16”; desired final pizza size is 15”; no bowl residue compensation

To prepare the dough, I started by sifting the flour (Harvest King) to which I added the IDY and stirred to uniformly disperse it in the flour. I then added the formula water, which I had preheated to 135 degrees F, to the mixer bowl. I gradually added the flour mixture to the water by tablespoonsful and stirred the mixture after each flour addition using a standard kitchen fork. I did this until a shaggy wet dough ball formed around the fork. Using this simple method ensured that there would be little or no gluten development at this stage. I estimate that about half of the flour was added to this point. I then covered the bowl and let the dough rest (autolyse) for 15 minutes in order to improve the hydration of the flour. The autolyse period also served to shorten the overall mix time.

At the end of the 15-minute period, I added the salt, sugar, oil and the remaining flour/IDY to the bowl. Using the paddle attachment and operating the mixer at stir speed, I mixed the ingredients for about 6 minutes. I decided not to mix longer than that because I did not want to overly develop the gluten. At the end of the 6 minutes, the dough mix took on the appearance of popcorn, with small-to-medium irregularly shaped pieces. The first photo below shows the dough as I put it on my work surface to form into a ball. As can be seen in the first photo, there was little loose flour. To form the ball, I just pressed everything together. I kneaded the dough ball gently for about a minute. Again, I did not want to overly develop the gluten. The second photo below shows the dough after it was formed. I then flattened the dough ball, oiled it, and placed it into my lightweight plastic snap-fit storage container. The container then went into my proofing box, which I had preheated to its maximum operating temperature of about 115-120 degrees F. The dough remained in the proofing box for an hour and a half. During that time, the dough expanded by about double, as is shown in the third photo below.

The heated dough was removed from its container and rolled out using my heavy rolling pin. The dough was rolled out to 16”. The dough did not roll out quite as easily as the dough made using my food processor, but it was still far easier than if I were rolling out an unheated dough. It took maybe a few minutes longer, plus I was rolling out to a larger size. From the 16” skin, I cut out a skin of 15”. The weight of the 15” skin was 9.70 ounces. I calculated a thickness factor for the 15” skin of 0.063, which was within normal range based on my recent experiments. As before, I dusted the final skin, folded it in quarters, encased it in plastic wrap, and put it in the refrigerator. It remained in the refrigerator for 2 days and 4 hours, at which point I brought it out to room temperature and let it warm up, still in the plastic wrap, for an hour and a half.

When I was ready to use the dough skin, I noticed that it had shrunk about a half-inch while in the refrigerator. However, using my rolling pin, I was able easily to restore the skin to its 15” size. I then docked the skin on both sides and fitted it within my 14” cutter pan that I had pre-oiled in order to get increased bottom crust browning. The cutter pan was then placed in a 475-degree F preheated oven, on the lowest oven rack position, for about 5 minutes. The cutter pan was then removed from the oven to dress the pre-baked crust.

As a change of pace, I decided to make a Mexican-style pizza that was inspired by a favorite tostada that I make using fresh chorizo from a local Mexican butcher shop and shredded quesadilla cheese, which is a mild-tasting Hispanic cheese similar to mozzarella cheese and often recommended for use on pizza. I put the shredded quesadilla cheese on the pre-baked crust and distributed small pieces of the chorizo, which I had lightly sauteed until pink, over the cheese. There was no pizza sauce. The dressed pizza was returned to the oven and baked for 7 minutes, again at 475 degrees F, on the lowest oven rack position. I then moved the pizza to the top oven rack position for about 1 ˝ minutes of additional baking, mainly to get a bit more browning of the quesadilla cheese. I noticed throughout how well the cheese held up to the oven heat.

The photos in the next post show the finished pizza. The crust of the pizza was crispy and crackery although the texture was a bit different than the crust made using the food processor. It was perhaps a bit more tender with a texture that reminded me of a thinner version of the first pizza I made and reported on in this thread. However, the crust was flavorful and enjoyable nonetheless. At some point I plan to make a dough for a larger sized pizza (14”) using my food processor to see if the end results are the same as using the stand mixer.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 10:13:57 PM by Pete-zza »