Author Topic: N50 vs ELux DLX 2000 (Read 7276 times)

les_garten · « **on:** November 20, 2007, 07:05:35 PM »

Hello,
I have been perusing the forums and want to buy a Mixer. I am so glad I found this place so that I didn't buy one of those KA POS. I have it narrowed doen to a Vintage Hobart N50 or a ELux DLX 2000. I talked ot Hobart and they said that Mixer is not rated for "Pizza Dough". It seems that it would do fine. It is only 4-5 Quarts depending on who you talk to. That's probably enough for me.

Any thoughts about pluses or minuses with the two mixers? Preferences, etc?

Les

pizzoid · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2007, 05:48:33 PM »

I would say Hobart (if you can get a spiral dough hook), even thought I've never used one.

Having recently _not_ used my DLX for 3 weeks, I found the pin electrolytically welded to the arm, and had to take a hammer to it to make it useable again. I expect corrosion problems like that on the deep-ocean robotic subs I work on, not my kitchen appliances! While the pin seems to be stainless, the arm seems to be plated, cast zinc, or similar. Wash or wipe it down, and it corrodes, locking it in place.

DLX, as far as I have determined, is only preferable if you're someone who absolutely needs to occasionally make a batch of dough starting with 4-5 lbs of flour. Mixes ingredients like crap, but kneads & deveops gluten well. But that might only be the KASL flour I've been using......

I've found that so far on my standard 4 x 10.5 oz. finished dough recipe, I've gotten best results from my old DAK bread machine, then my 30 yr. old Oster kitchen center (but as noisy as an airport runway), then it's a toss up between the DLX and the Kitchenaid KSM90!

Sorry to burst any bubbles.....

- Al

les_garten · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2007, 08:46:59 PM »

Hi Al,
I pretty much had settled on the DLX, but have gone back and forth a few times. I think I wold like the Hobart to have a slightly higher capacity, but in reality 5 Qt.s is enough. You did kinda nail me with the DLX comments considering what I've been reading about it. The Elux design has been around almost as long as the Hobart. The Hobart will take ALL the Kitchen aid accessories including the spiral Hook.

Les

Villa Roma · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2007, 08:47:16 AM »

Mixers? We don't need no stinking mixers!

(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5682.msg49850.html#msg49850)

Villa Roma

les_garten · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2007, 11:40:09 AM »

Quote from: Villa Roma on November 22, 2007, 08:47:16 AM

Mixers? We don't need no stinking mixers!

(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5682.msg49850.html#msg49850)

Villa Roma

A shameful display of Screwdriver abuse!

Les

Bryan S · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:40:06 AM »

Quote from: les_garten on November 20, 2007, 07:05:35 PM

Hello,
I have been perusing the forums and want to buy a Mixer. I am so glad I found this place so that I didn't buy one of those KA POS.

Les

I just love my KA Pro 600. I make double batches of pizza dough once or twice a week and it has never let me down in the past 2.5 years that I've owned it. Granted I'm only making 40-50 ozs of dough with it but the Pro 600 can handle that no problem. KA IMO gets a bad rap because people buy the cheapest one and try to do something with them that it's not meant to do, double batches of pizza dough come to mind in the 325 watt model. JMO, YMMV.

pcampbell · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2007, 08:22:08 AM »

I agree - I just got a new KitchenAid and it is night and day vs the Artisan. It is a "Pro 5 Plus". I dumped 45 ounces into the bowl and put it on "2" for five minutes. The base didn't shake like on my Artisan and not once did the dough creep up the hook. With the Artisan on a 5 minute knead I'd have to stop and fix the dough once a minute if not more. I am guessing 67 ounces (3 16" balls) would be just fine also.

les_garten · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2007, 10:40:39 AM »

Hi Folks,
Thanx for the Feedback everyone. I had read some pretty spotty reviews of all the KA's on the Net and basically just decided to steer clear of all of them. The bad reviews were for all the Models, all the way up to the 6 Qt Pro. It seems like they are perfect for Cake doughs, but strained on bread and Pizza dough. Also a high degree of failures for almost their entire product line. I have all Kitchenaid Proline stuff in my Kitchen. I had an issue with my Dishwasher after two years and while hunting for the Part, I found some dirt on KA Customer satisfaction. Pretty abysmal.

Moral to the story: I just won a like new N50 on Ebay for $522. The infamous(at least to DLX owners) Cook's Illustrated reviews even gave it a recommended rating. I am only interested in Bread and Pizza Dough. It's just me and my wife, so this should be plenty of Mixer for me.

Thanx for the info here!

Les

pcampbell · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2007, 11:33:27 AM »

I have read a lot of bad reviews on the KA, but haven't had any bad experience yet. I am sure you will be happy with the N50. Now to get yourself a spiral hook!

abatardi · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2007, 11:57:28 AM »

Quote from: les_garten on November 26, 2007, 10:40:39 AM

I had read some pretty spotty reviews of all the KA's on the Net and basically just decided to steer clear of all of them.

I guess you're bound to get some bad reviews for a product that pretty much millions of people own. I could rattle off 10 people in about 15 seconds that I personally know that has one, and probably double that if pressed... I don't know a soul (except on this board) who owns either an N50 or a DLX. Also keep in mind the majority of the time people only review something because of a bad experience.

I think it's also one of those things (as far as pizza is concerned) that is just like flour in that you eventually come back around to where you started... People on here (myself included) may have spent months trying various types of flours and protein levels and grinds only to realize you can make perfectly good pizza with store brand all purpose if you do it right (and this flour is probably still better than what some of the greats used 100+ years ago). I have had great pizza from all types of mixers, from someone's own two hands all the way up to 5 figure specialty 'kneading machines'..

- aba

les_garten · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2007, 11:58:33 AM »

Quote from: pcampbell on November 26, 2007, 11:33:27 AM

I have read a lot of bad reviews on the KA, but haven't had any bad experience yet. I am sure you will be happy with the N50. Now to get yourself a spiral hook!

Hi Patrick,
There is some confusion about whether there is one for the N50. I have a call into Hobart and some supply places. I know the K5 Spiral Hooks will attach, but don't know if the bowel clearance will be correct or not. I also don't know if there will be a reliability issue with a Spiral Hook or not. I had heard that the New N50's came with a Spiral hook. I won the auction yesterday and am trying to buy the Hook today.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170170935005&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007

les_garten · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:21:52 PM »

Quote from: abatardi on November 26, 2007, 11:57:28 AM

I guess you're bound to get some bad reviews for a product that pretty much millions of people own. I could rattle off 10 people in about 15 seconds that I personally know that has one, and probably double that if pressed... I don't know a soul (except on this board) who owns either an N50 or a DLX. Also keep in mind the majority of the time people only review something because of a bad experience.

I think it's also one of those things (as far as pizza is concerned) that is just like flour in that you eventually come back around to where you started... People on here (myself included) may have spent months trying various types of flours and protein levels and grinds only to realize you can make perfectly good pizza with store brand all purpose if you do it right (and this flour is probably still better than what some of the greats used 100+ years ago). I have had great pizza from all types of mixers, from someone's own two hands all the way up to 5 figure specialty 'kneading machines'..

- aba

Hi,
Read the Cook's Illustrated Review and pay attention to what they say, about how these Mixers behaved during Bread dough mixing. Also think about what happens when an electric Motor strains and slows down while pulling a certain amount of amps. Even the CI review that listed KA as Recomended talks of how all these mIxers, except the N50, strained on Bread dough and Pizza dough. Read over the types of complaints hat Folks have for the KA and how they describe their problems. Even the people who are reviewing them positively, remark about how they handle stiff or High Protein doughs.
You are correct in saying there is a smaller market for a $2000 dollar mixer. There are a lot more Ford Explorers sold than Toyota Land Cruisers also. That does not mean that Explorers are superior to Land Cruisers. KA has a massive marketiing dept. and Budget That's why there are zillions of them sold. Additionally, they make their appearance on every cooking show and News segment on cooking. They own the Home Mixer market for sure. Most people probably use them to make cakes and cookies in relatively small amounts, they are great for that. In their price space for what they are intended to do, they are Probably the best thing out there.
Here's what I wanted in a Mixer. I want to be able to throw 3-4 pounds of KASL in it and want it to sound like it's mixing air, and I want to get this in a 5 QT model, not a 12 or 20 Qt Hobart. The chief complaints on the KA's were premature failures thermal shut downs, and slowing, stopping, and straining. That pretty much riled out all except the DLX and the N50. I leaned towards the DLX, but there were some issues with mixing, and I didn't really need the capacity. Like the N50, the DLX has a unbroken lineage back to the 30's or so. I also looked into KA's made before '85 or so when Hobart had them. They seemed adept at handling bread dough, but still seemed a little anemic compared to the N50.
I called the KA's a POS, sorry about that, it wasn't personal. They just seem a little nutless for mixing Pizza dough.

Thanx for the Input!

Les

abatardi · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:42:31 PM »

These reviews general think of pizza dough as like 50% hydration bread flour...

- aba

les_garten · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2007, 01:03:02 PM »

Quote from: abatardi on November 26, 2007, 11:57:28 AM

I think it's also one of those things (as far as pizza is concerned) that is just like flour in that you eventually come back around to where you started... People on here (myself included) may have spent months trying various types of flours and protein levels and grinds only to realize you can make perfectly good pizza with store brand all purpose if you do it right (and this flour is probably still better than what some of the greats used 100+ years ago). I have had great pizza from all types of mixers, from someone's own two hands all the way up to 5 figure specialty 'kneading machines'..

- aba

Hi,
I agree that a Mixer does not run a Pizzeria. I was referenced to a Screwdriver earlier in this post, and how well it made Pizza. The issue is that I don't own a Mixer. I'm using my Wife's Oster Bread machine and it's going to die a premature death from mixing Pizza dough. I also don't have any control over what it does and how it does it. So, I want to buy a Mixer, and I'm an Engineer so I was doing my research. I don't buy anything without looking into it beforehand. I would not Pay $1800-$2000 for a N50, so I started watching Sales like Ebay and Craigslist.

Here were my requirements that I started with:
1) Handle Bread dough and Pizza dough up to about 3-4 Pounds with little or no strain
2) Be able to sit on a counter top
3) Cost around $400
4) Be good at mixing
5) Be a Lifetime Purchase

The KA's in my research failed 1 and 5.

Before I started the research, I wanted a KA 6 Qt pro. I thought Kitchenaid, what could be better, you see them everywhere. Hell, even MARTHA uses one. As soon as I saw the first posting about straining with anything thicker than AP flour, I started looking further. It finally came down to the DLX and the N50. The DLX finally lost because of a few comments on this Forum about them and the CI review. I also talked to the Engineering dept at Hobart who test all mixers and asked them questions about Vikings, Bosch's, N50's etc.

So it came down to the N50.

The last thing I would note is that anyone with a KA of any Vintage should be in Love with a N50. Can't you see the family resemblance? It's like saying your Grandpa sux! My Grandpa may not be as Svelte as he used to be, but he knows a lot more about the world than I do.

As was stated somewhere else, the Hobart N50 is what a KA want's to be when it grows up!

There is a consensus that when Hobart Sold off KitchenAid that their quality and reliability suffered.

Les

abatardi · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2007, 01:21:36 PM »

I've had a KA 5qt pro for over 5 years now without a hitch. I have even run it with a spiral hook for the last 2+ years. I'm sure it will last me a long time to come, and I could buy 4 or 5 of these babies for the price of one N50 if anything ever did happen to it.

That being said, if I could get a new N50 for $400 I would... But that would just be a great deal and not going to happen... :-) Just seems like overkill. Speaking of grandpas, mine would probably smack me upside the head if he thought I was considering buying a $2k mixer. ;-)

- aba

les_garten · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2007, 01:24:25 PM »

Quote from: abatardi on November 26, 2007, 12:42:31 PM

These reviews general think of pizza dough as like 50% hydration bread flour...

- aba

You'r kinda makin' my point here. The N50 is used to Proof concrete.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nE6Yww-9wNIC&pg=PA373&lpg=PA373&dq=hobart+n50+concrete&source=web&ots=CG5O0Qbc6c&sig=8gOyI6xaNfmDf8MGfprl8myPaDY

This isn't the only comapny that uses it to mix sand and concrete. Google it and you will be amazed. This was one of the things that sold me on the fact that I will never be able to strain or wear out this Mixer. Unless of course I go into Concrete engineering!!

Les

les_garten · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2007, 02:19:40 PM »

Quote from: abatardi on November 26, 2007, 01:21:36 PM

I've had a KA 5qt pro for over 5 years now without a hitch. I have even run it with a spiral hook for the last 2+ years. I'm sure it will last me a long time to come, and I could buy 4 or 5 of these babies for the price of one N50 if anything ever did happen to it.

That being said, if I could get a new N50 for $400 I would... But that would just be a great deal and not going to happen... :-) Just seems like overkill. Speaking of grandpas, mine would probably smack me upside the head if he thought I was considering buying a $2k mixer. ;-)

- aba

I wouldn't pay $2000 for it either. I paid $522 for one in unused condition. I bought a $2000 mixer for $500 ;-)
I guess it's a philosophical issue. I look at it like this. I just spent $522 for a machine that can do commercial duty for 50-100 years or longer. N50's are really Heirloom quality as were the Older KA's when they were made by Hobart. A fair amount of the KA info I found was on this Forum from people having the problems I have described.

So here's the two scenarios here.:

1) If I bought KA 600 for say $360-$399 and it lasted for like 3-5 years, over 20 years I would spend like $1600-$2800 having bought between 4 and 7 mixers if I were as unlucky as a lot of people have been, and I subscribed to the throw it away and buy some more of those Baby's scenario.

2) Or the Scenario I just engaged in. Pay $522 once and own it with no problems for the rest of my life.

If I decide to sell it, I'll get my money back for it, so it will be free to use as long s I want it.

So after examining this, do you understand how I might make the decision I did?

One more scenario, take your mixer and take my mixer and let's do an endurance test mixing concrete, who will win that test? Can you site hundreds of references where The current KA lineup is used by Industry to Mix concrete?

Anyhow, these things are what made me want one of these Mixers at a good price. Another use I found along the way for this mixer is that medical Examiners use it in Pathology departments to Mix/liquefy samples.

Les

Bryan S · « **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2007, 12:05:00 AM »

Les, you did good, real good. $522 and some change you got one Hell of a mixer Bud, nice score.

les_garten · « **Reply #18 on:** November 27, 2007, 01:05:13 AM »

Quote from: Bryan S on November 27, 2007, 12:05:00 AM

Les, you did good, real good. $522 and some change you got one Hell of a mixer Bud, nice score.

Hi Bryan,
Thanx! I'll post some PIX when I get it. It's basically a commercial KA, same design, just more robust. Is that an Ultra in your Avatar?

Les

Bryan S · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2007, 01:16:59 AM »

Quote from: les_garten on November 27, 2007, 01:05:13 AM

Hi Bryan,
Thanx! I'll post some PIX when I get it. It's basically a commercial KA, same design, just more robust. Is that an Ultra in your Avatar?

Les

Les, PM me if you come across another N50, I want one.
It's a Ultra kind of. It's a RoadGlide that has every Ultra option on it and then some. The guy I bought it from spared no expense on that bike. It's got the wrap around passenger seat with rear speakers, lowers, CB intercom, King Pack, cruise, chrome everything........... it goes on and on. Yeah It's a Oldie, 99 Roadie but I got a pretty good deal 2 years ago on it for $10,500.00 I since put a Bassani 2-1 pipe on it and S&S 510 Gear drive cams, along with a Power Commader module. It puts out 90 HP with 90ftlbs torque, up 30 on both ends from the factory. It's a blast to ride.