Author Topic: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)  (Read 62962 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #140 on: January 06, 2010, 12:02:41 PM »
scott123,

I agree with everything you said in relation to the Calvel quote, except the part about the carbonic acid, about which I have no special knowledge. The matter of enzyme versus yeast performance comes up from time to time on the forum. One of the earliest posts on this subject came from member pizzanapoletana (Marco), a Neapolitan dough expert and student of that style, at Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg13410/topicseen.html#msg13410.

Professor Calvel, at page 56 of his book, also talks about how to remedy a problem with low residual sugar, which is something that Ryan might find of interest:

"Whether doughs are leavened with a poolish, by levain-levure (sponge and dough), or with pate fermentee, whenever they undergo an excess of maturation or fermentation it is a good practice to remedy in advance the resulting lack of residual sugars. To do this, add from 0.1% to 0.2% malt extract during mixing--or on very rare occasions from 0.3% to 0.5% sucrose--to reestablish the proper sugar balance."

The malt extract to which Professor Calvel refers in the above quote is diastatic malt, not non-diastatic malt. A similar recommendation on the use of diastatic malt is also made by Didier Rosada toward the end of his article at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm, but his recommended usage is 0.5-1%. I once had an interesting discussion with a technical person at the largest U.S. producer of malt products and my recollection is that he recommended around 2-3% (I neglected to ask him, however, whether he was referring to the dry or liquid form of the diastatic malt.) According to the article on malt at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8308.msg71658.html#msg71658, one should be able to replace one half of the formula sugar with diastatic malt. In my experiments with diastatic malt, I used it on the low side and found that the results were not much improved. I perhaps should have used more but I was concerned that the dough would become excessively slack from overuse of the diastatic malt. Ryan (Gags) might want to keep these considerations in mind if he decides to continue to use his cold fermentation version of JerryMac's recipe.

There have been experiments, including one by me, to try to increase the residual levels of sugars in a water-flour mixture by giving the alpha/beta amylase enzymes more time to work on sugar conversion. See, for example, Reply 69 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg66521.html#msg66521 and also the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7770.msg66722.html#msg66722.

I'm sure that JerryMac will confirm all of the above when he reads this post and the few that preceded it. He will perhaps ask us to never darken the door of this thread again :-D.

Peter

« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 07:08:07 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline scott123

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #141 on: January 07, 2010, 04:36:33 AM »
So Marco believes that amylase activity IS temperature dependent, but... it's a little less temperature dependent than yeast activity.  I can resonate with that.

The carbonic acid premise is relatively new to me as well.  I found it a few weeks back while researching lower pH levels in fermented doughs:

http://www.dakotayeast.com/help-fermentation.html

I don't agree with everything they're saying (I rarely agree with everything anyone's saying ;) ), but... the concept that the primary acidifying agent in non sourdough dough was carbonic acid, formed from dissolved carbon dioxide, seemed to make a little sense to me.

As they were less than $1 each, I bought 20 of them - as you said, to create both a deck and ceiling (and maybe even a lip around the sides and back of the deck).


If you want to play around with a lip, by all means, go for it, but I don't think you're going to see any dramatic difference between having a lip (or a wall) and not having a lip. At least, not if your ceiling is less than 12" high and your bricks are covering a good portion of the shelves.

Here's what bakingstone has to say about walls in a home oven:

http://www.bakingstone.com/faq.php

Quote
Use a second FibraMent stone as the ceiling by placing on the wire rack above.  Adjust the height of the wire rack so it's immediately over the foods you are baking.  Since we have greatly reduced the ceiling height of the oven, and are redirecting the heat back down on the items we are baking, wall inserts are not necessary.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:38:56 AM by scott123 »

Offline scottoliphant

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #142 on: February 20, 2012, 10:49:12 AM »
finally posting pictures of my experience with the JerryMac recipe
(a Margherita and a white pie with ricotta, roasted garlic and spinach)
we make this dough about twice a month and absolutely love it.
I follow it pretty much as it's written. The only thing I've changed over the past year is that I've started using our oven's convection bake at 550 and it cooks the pizza perfectly
thanks so much!

Offline pythonic

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #143 on: February 21, 2012, 02:51:52 PM »
Scott,

What was your cook time with the 550 convection?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #144 on: February 21, 2012, 05:52:34 PM »
I gave this a shot today however my poolish fermented for around 8hrs and not the 3-4 the recipe called for because i woke up late.  I'm wondering how this would affect my pizza also so if anyone wants to chime in.

Also, I started with the minimum amount of flour to add (1 1/2 cups) to the poolish and it wasn't wet like JerryMac said it should be "almost running off the hook" so I will have to correct that on my next pie.

Oven spring was very good but I overcooked this using convection at 550 degrees (I think at least) and it came out a little dry and burnt on the bottom which messed with the flavor.  Still trying to figure out my new kitchen aid oven.  I will report back when I bake one up to my standards.





« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:03:54 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline scottoliphant

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #145 on: February 22, 2012, 10:36:08 PM »
cook time with the convection was about 6-7 minutes, got a little longer as we progressed through the 4 pizzas (always double the recipe and invite over friends!). But, 3-5 minutes quicker than without the convection (at same temp of 550)

Offline Lester7009

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #146 on: March 05, 2012, 10:01:37 PM »
 
 I made your Pie today and must say It was one of the Best Pies ever. The Pie had a light crisp crust and light chew. The flavor was great. I think you have
 a great Pie. Thank you for sharing this recipe. It is a great Keeper. I must say it is interesting. The Poolish, the fermentation' etc. Enjoyed doing this. Great Pie. Yes I am a nubile but it turned out great. Followed your directions and came out just right.

Thank You
Lester
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 10:12:44 PM by Lester7009 »

Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #147 on: March 06, 2012, 04:30:06 PM »
Thanks Lester, glad you like the dough  :)

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2012, 01:01:29 PM »
Jerry,

Followed your recipe to a tee......Wowza!.....thanks a million JerryMac !!

Bob
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 04:09:18 PM by Pete-zza »
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Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #149 on: March 09, 2012, 06:50:48 PM »
Bob,

     You are more than welcome  :) glad you liked the dough and your pies look great  :D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry


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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #150 on: March 11, 2012, 03:38:05 AM »
Just tried a modified Jerry Mac for the first time. I let the poolish sit over night, and incorporated everything this morning around 10 oclock for a 5:30 bake. The dough was very easy to work with, and very tasty. However, I don't know if it was my extended poolish ferment or not, but both my wife and I felt very gassy afterwards. My thoughts is that it may be too much yeast for my extra long Jerry Mac considering I got a double bulk rise in about an hour and a half, then split into 2 dough balls and still got about a triple mass rise. I think I would definitely make the Jerry Mac again with the extended poolish, but next time I think I will cut the yeast in half. I will probably go with just the tsp in the poolish and that's it. Anyways, thanks for the great recipe, Jerry, everyone loved it!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 03:40:20 AM by censored »

Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #151 on: March 12, 2012, 10:41:38 AM »
Censored,

     I never cold retarded either the poolish or dough ??? Others have, maybee they can help ya out  ???

Mangia Bene :chef:
Jerry

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #152 on: March 12, 2012, 09:53:06 PM »
Censored,

     I never cold retarded either the poolish or dough ??? Others have, maybee they can help ya out  ???

Mangia Bene :chef:
Jerry

Actually it was all room temp fermentation, my dough never hit the fridge. It worked great though, it brought out a ton of flavor. I am probably going to make this dough again tomorrow for Wednesday, or Thursday for Friday. I am just going to go with the one tsp IDY in the poolish and see what happens.

Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #153 on: March 13, 2012, 08:54:59 AM »
Censored,

     If your gonna push the fermentation at room temp, cutting the yeast definitely sounds like the way to go  ;)

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry

Offline slybarman

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #154 on: April 22, 2012, 06:51:10 PM »
Greetings:

I am very new to pizza making. I gave this recipe a try today. Two questions:

1) The dough smelled quite "yeasty" when I went to make the pies. It tasted good, but it was a much stronger yeast smell than I have encountered before. I had used SAF gourmet perfect rise yeast ('cause that's what I found in the pantry :) ). Anyhow, is that common and is it a problem?

2) I cooked the pizza @ 545 on a lodge logic cast iron pizza pan that pre-heated in the oven. The pan was on the bottom rack. The top of the pizza got done before the crust was done enough. The crust would have been just right with about 3 more minutes, but the cheese would have burned. So, can I pre-bake the crust for a few minutes and then top the pizza, or is that a no-no?

Thanks in advance.

Offline Ev

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #155 on: April 22, 2012, 07:54:03 PM »
Did you preheat the cast iron pan, or just the oven?

Offline slybarman

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #156 on: April 22, 2012, 08:24:04 PM »
Yes, the pan was pre-heated.

Offline Ev

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #157 on: April 23, 2012, 12:44:06 AM »
Yes, the pan was pre-heated.

Sorry, I missed that somehow in your original post.
I,m afraid I'm not sure how to advise you to fix your under baked crust. Hopefully someone experienced in cast iron cooking will chime in.
Good luck.

Offline slybarman

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #158 on: April 23, 2012, 10:29:06 AM »
OK - I infer from your reply then that most people are not having any trouble getting the crust and toppings to finish at the same time and have not found a need to pre-bake. Perhaps I need to try a stone instead.

Offline Ev

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2012, 10:57:18 AM »
Not having tried this recipe myself, I can't really say what the problem might be. My first thought was that maybe your pan was not preheated and then realized in your first post you mentioned that it was. Glancing back though other posts on this thread, it looks like everyone else is having pretty good results. Perhaps you should try a stone instead of the cast iron. That's what I use for many different formulas and it always works pretty well. On the other hand, this just came to me. You may try preheating your cast iron pan under the broiler just before launching the pie. This should get you a pretty fair amount of extra heat on the bottom. Worth a try, I think. Post some pictures of your results if you can.


 

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