Author Topic: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)  (Read 73701 times)

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Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2008, 05:10:43 PM »
Peter,
I understand your reasoning completely and also understand that for you, the pizza guru, to be able to help people who ask for it, Baker's Percents are a must.  And it seems to me that you spend a lot of "ink" defending/explaining one side or the other.  Or both.

That said, I also get the distinct feeling (having read many MANY threads on these boards!) that some people (NOT you!) feel that recipes like Jerry's have no place here.  I guess that's why I feel a need to defend the "underdog" who doesn't conform.   ;)   ;D  After all, the logo above says "Pizzamaking.com" NOT "pizzamakingbybaker'spercents.com"   :-D   It seems that quite often, when recipes like Jerry's are posted, someone feels the need to jump in and tell them that they should be using Baker's Percents so that the rest of the population, both members and guests, can make the recipe. 

I also agree that it would make it easier to replicate a dough using volume measurements if the poster would explain their method.  I use the "stir, spoon and sweep" method and so sometimes need to add more flour, just like I did when I made this recipe a few weeks ago. 

If someone likes the looks of the photos they see but don't feel comfortable making a recipe with old-fashioned volume measurements, perhaps they should learn the conversion steps, like you have.  And, of course, they can always query the poster for clarification.  But I see no reason for anyone to get "soap-box-y" about the dubious NECESSITY of Baker's Percents.  If you don't like the recipe as posted, go find another one!  Lord knows, there are PLENTY on this site!   8)   :-D

~sd
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Offline abatardi

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2008, 05:28:04 PM »
I think Pete said it best as always.  And as you said consistent results keep customers coming back.  I don't know why one would not strive for creating a consistently good product in their own kitchen, especially when they are in the mood for good pizza and aren't sure what they are going to get if they go by 'feel' alone - light airy crust or dense and chewy, because they may not be experienced enough yet to "feel" the same thing every time.  Also if you stick to weight measurements, you can change small things in the formula to see what happens in the end result.  If you had two similarly skilled people, one using weights and one using feel and volumes, and they were both striving at the same end result, I don't see how anyone could argue that the person doing it by feel would get there in less attempts.  Either way, feel comes with experience no matter which way you work... If you took away my scale I am confident I could make an identical pizza dough because I've done it so many times and know what the dough should look like and what it should 'feel' like.  Most people come to this board to learn how to make pizza, and how to reproduce something they see in pictures as closely as possible.  This cannot be done by the novice baker by feel alone.  They might luck out once or twice but the consistency will not be there and sooner or later they will be wondering what happened to make their latest batch turn out like crap ('no such thing as too much yeast with my method' - ha!).  

- aba
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Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2008, 06:32:40 PM »
aba,
did you read the post of mine that is just above your last?  I thought not... I think we were typing at the same time.

Let me say this as succinctly and nicely as possible:

This recipe was written in volume measurements because Jerry likes it that way.  He has stated reasons for his preference.  We don't need any more explanations of why you think BPs are better.  You will never convert us VM adherents, so you should just leave the pulpit.  You're preaching in the wrong church.   :angel:    >:D

I have used this recipe of Jerry's twice now, the second time reduced by 1/3 because the recipe is too big for just DH and me, and both times it turned out WONDERFULLY! 

You could save yourself a lot of time typing (especially making seemingly backhanded comments which you have not as yet explained even though asked) if you would just avoid VM recipes since you have made it perfectly clear that you don't like them.  Then poor Peter wouldn't have to jump in with HIS explanations...    and you're right, aba, Peter DID say it best, as always...

Again, it comes down to the reason why one method is used as opposed to another, and not whether one method is better than another.

Peter

Since this is an open forum called pizzamaking.com, any recipe should be welcome, not just those in BPs.  Or am I wrong?   ;)

~sd
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 10:30:13 PM by sourdough girl »
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Offline abatardi

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2008, 04:38:01 PM »
I guess it's like trying to argue politics... in the end, some people are still Bush supporters.  ;D  To each his own. 

- aba
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Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2008, 04:58:44 PM »
aba, you are exactly correct!  Which is why, in reply #23, I suggested that we all just agree to disagree...

(And you DON'T want to get me started on Bush...  he, personally, sent my husband to Iraq.)   ;)   >:D   :'( 

~sd
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Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2008, 12:43:30 AM »
abatardi,

I'm sorry, I have really tried to stay out of this one, But  >:D

"consistent results keep customers coming back"

I'm sorry, but I don't run a Pizza Joint, DO YOU  ??? ??? ???

I cook for Friends and Family  ;D ;D ;D   Do You  ??? ??? ???

"I don't know why one would not strive for creating a consistently good product"

I make Pizza, Not "products", Do You  ??? ??? ??? ???

"If you took away my scale I am confident I could make an identical pizza dough"   :o :o  If you were "Confident", you wouldn't have to brag about it  :-D :-D :-D

 "('no such thing as too much yeast with my method' - ha!)." Where did you get that Crap  ??? ???

abatardi, Know what I wish you and me could have,  A good old fashioned "Bobby Flay" "Pizza Throwdown"  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You Got The Guts  ??? ??? ???

I'm READY  >:D >:D >:D

Jerry  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 


Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2008, 03:37:15 AM »
OH, yeah!
Bobby Flay!!

Sign me up as one of the judges!!  I'll be impartial, I PROMISE!! 
(Did you ever notice on those throwdowns that the judges are all local??.... for a REASON!!  If he's taking on a local food icon, the judges should NOT be impartial...they should KNOW the local cuisine!  If they're stacked against Bobby, well, that's what he asked for!)

Hang onto your toques  :chef:  here we go....  :pizza:   :P   :o   8)   ;D 

~sd



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Offline abatardi

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2008, 11:12:58 PM »
Remember, I don't do "#'s"  ;)

Too Much Yeast  ???  Not if you make it "My" way  ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry

;-)

Ha!  I'd even put money on that.  Tax time coming up and I could use the extra $$$.  :-)

- aba
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Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2008, 12:13:00 AM »
Sourdough Girl,

NO, You Can Not Be A Judge  >:( >:(  You Would Not Be Impartial  >:( >:( >:(

Tell Ya what though, I'll do this is in Aba's back yard so He'll have all the Judging Advantages  ;) ;)

And I'll Still "Whup His Butt"  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Whoooooooooooo  ;D

Jerry


Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2008, 01:03:51 AM »
abatardi,

You Have, As of Yet, Refused to Explain the following comment you made in this thread, to our "first or low time posters"  >:(

"Is it just me or does this thread have an unusual number of first or low time posters raving about the recipe?"  ??? ???

Please, as I am sure that you will agree, that They (first or low time posters), would "Really" love Your Explanation, as to Exactly What You Meant   ;D ;D

Thanks for your Timely Response  ;) ;)

Jerry

Offline abatardi

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2008, 02:06:57 AM »
Thought it was pretty self-explanatory.

/end thread

- aba
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Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2008, 02:31:01 AM »
Aba,

Ever heard the old saying, "Thought Thought, But He Thought Wrong"  ??? ??? ???

You "Still" haven't "Explained"

Jerry

Offline abatardi

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2008, 11:22:52 AM »
/end thread
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Offline JerryMac

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2008, 11:45:37 PM »
abatardi,

Sorry, You can't end "MY Thread"  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Jerry

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2008, 12:16:08 AM »
abatardi,

Sorry, You can't end "MY Thread"  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Jerry
He has a point.  ;D
Making great pizza and learning new things everyday.

Offline pnj

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2008, 12:36:20 PM »
I've been itching for a really good pie lately. I'm going to try this one out tonight.

What happens if I leave one of the dough balls in the fridge for a day or two? I've found that no matter what I add to the dough, if I leave it to cold ferment for a day or more it is allways easier to work and seems to increase the flavor as well. yet this dough seems to be one that you cook the same day. One thing I don't like about pizza making is that I have to plan so far ahead for good pizza....

And why are there NO pictures of this elusive pie?

Offline pnj

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2008, 12:56:10 PM »
well, made this yesterday. I don't have a mixer so I had to use my hands. kinda sucks.. the dough was really wet/moist. I cooked it at around 500 or so and used a flat pan with no holes. It was the first time I'd used this pan. I sprayed a small amount of oil on the pan and placed the dough on it.

the dough was VERY thin. the crust didn't puff too much, I would have like more rise.

it tasted fine but about an hour later I had a funny floury feeling in my stomach... weird.


Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2008, 03:07:45 PM »
pnj,
I'm no expert, (that would be Pete-zza!) but I'm guessing that the use of a cold pan with the dough is why you didn't get the oven spring you wanted.  I have made this recipe several times (and am making it again tonight... the poolish is on the counter!) and I bake at 550o F on a stone preheated for at least an hour.  I get GREAT oven spring with the hot stone.  I also have a second stone directly above so that the entire pizza is evenly cooked.  If you don't have a stone, you might want to consider investing in one... it does make a difference!

Just curious... did you leave one of the dough balls in the fridge for a cold retard?  If you did, I would sure like to hear the results.  I think this recipe is designed with the poolish so that you don't necessarily need a cold overnight ferment.  The poolish gives it extra flavor instead.

As for the "floury" feeling... I'm not sure what that's all about, but I can tell you that, for me, this crust is very light, crisp and flavorful, with just the right amount of chewiness... it is the only one I have made so far where DH doesn't leave ANY crust on the plate... he eats the entire slice!  That's high praise from him!

I will post pics of tonight's pizza...

~sd
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2008, 05:17:26 PM »
In the opening post in this thread, Jerry mentioned that there were pictures of his pizzas available on the forum, and that there was also a video by Bill/SFNM showing a similar dough condition out of the mixer. I believe the video is the one at http://youtube.com/watch?v=DQd38yoND0g, but I have been unable to find the pictures of Jerry's pizzas. Can anyone provide a link to those pizzas?

As to pnj's results, I believe that part of the problem stemmed from making the dough by hand. Jerry relies on visual cues to tell him when the dough is ready, specifically, when the dough pulls away from the sides of his mixer bowl but not from the bottom. When making the dough by hand, it is hard to get comparable visual cues. That problem is exacerbated by the fact that, by my estimation, the hydration of the dough is somewhere between 75-81%. That range assumes that Jerry measures out his flour and water textbook style, and could well be different if he uses different measuring methods. In any event, it takes considerable skill to make skins out of a dough with a hydration of close to 80%. Using a cold pan to bake the pizza also did not help, as sourdough girl has pointed out. Ideally, you would like the dough to hit a very hot stone to get the best oven spring. When a pan is used, the pan has to get up to temperature before the pizza on it can start to bake and exhibit good oven spring. With a very highly hydrated dough, it is hard to get the oomph needed to yield good dough expansion. Using a perforated pan might have helped by getting some of the heat directly to the dough.

It is possible to cold ferment a dough based on the poolish method, but usually the purpose of using the poolish method in the first place is to save on total preparation time. The usual practice is as Jerry described. To materially depart from that method will usually require modifying the dough formulation and the dough management process, as by altering the amounts of yeast, the poolish and/or dough fermentation times, temperatures, etc.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 05:49:23 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline abatardi

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2008, 09:03:48 PM »
And why are there NO pictures of this elusive pie?

I guess we're supposed to have faith.

- aba
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Offline Mick

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2008, 04:22:49 AM »
I guess we're supposed to have faith.

- aba



  :)

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2008, 07:25:32 PM »
Here is my attempt at Jerry's NY style: 13" mushroom and pepperoni, baked at 550 degrees F on a pizza stone for about 6 minutes. I kept track of everything I did, so I can provide whatever detail anyone may desire.

Peter






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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2008, 07:35:43 PM »
Another photo of the pizza from another side..


Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2008, 08:27:42 PM »
Peter!
Nice pizza!!

I made a couple last night using Jerry's recipe.  Didn't get any slice photos, but have a couple of other photos to share.  The close up shows the nice, brown crust bubbles which signify those nice voids.

"Faith" is no longer needed!!

The pies were sure GOOD!!  I made one with little fishies, pepperoni, black olives, diced yellow onion and diced red pepper.  Would have liked green pepper better for the visual contrast, and some fresh mushrooms, but didn't have any in the fridge.  I used part skim Precious mozz.  The sauce was an 8 oz can of Hunt's tomato sauce mixed with McCormick's "Gourmet" Tuscan style dried herbs (purchased at Costco).  This is my "emergency" sauce when I discover, to my chagrin, that I have no "good" tomatoes in the pantry. 
The other was Precious fresh mozz, sliced fresh tomatoes, fresh basil (some added before baking, some after... photo shows only the "before" basil) and EVOO.  Both were WONDERFUL!  The fresh mozz/tomato pizza was baked second and, since we were quite hungry, I didn't allow long enough for the oven/stone to recover, so that pizza crust is not as dark.  But, I can tell you, it was just as flavorful!

I baked at 550o on a stone (with a second stone ~3" above) that was preheated for over an hour.  The pizzas baked in about 6 minutes.  Nice crust bubbles on the first pizza and good browning.  When I sliced it with the pizza wheel, there was a nice, crisp crunch.  The crust was chewy and flavorful. 

LOVE this crust!  Have yet to try it with my homegrown starter, but that will be another iteration. 

~sd
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2008, 08:40:23 PM »
I hope that Jerry will tell us exactly how he measures out the flour when he makes the dough. I ended up with a hydration of around 66%. I found that I had to work fast to dress the pizza so that it wouldn't stick to the peel. If I know how Jerry measures out the flour I should be able to get a better fix on the hydration. It's a good recipe, and a good choice for a pizza to be made same day. I used barley malt syrup, which accounts for the light brown color of both the dough and the crumb.

Peter