Author Topic: Big Dave's Cracker Crust  (Read 6353 times)

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Offline Steve

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Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« on: October 21, 2004, 03:20:43 PM »
Found this at:
http://www.bigdaveostrander.com/ask/askdavePF.htm#PuffyDough

Q. I'm just taking over existing business. We want to make an adjustment to the dough. Any suggestions for making it less puffy and more crisp?
- Neil Heiman, SO-DOugh Pizza, Seattle, WA

A. Generally Puffy Dough is caused by over proofing. Proofing is what happens from the time the dough comes out of the mixer till it goes in the oven. Puffy is caused from the chemical reaction between sugar and yeast. Yeast feeds on the available sugar, and proteins in the flour, and produces carbon dioxide. That gas (CO2) makes all of the little bubbles that give the dough a rise when it hits the heat of the oven. This is called oven spring and has been popularized by the DiGorno Pizza TV adds. A great recipe for crispy, sometimes called cracker crust, goes like this.
 

Ingredients (25# Batch)
20# High-Gluten Flour
8# Water 70 degrees F
1 oz. Active Dry Yeast
3 oz. Sugar
10 oz. Salt
6.5 oz. Vegetable Oil
3.5 oz. Egg Whites

Add everything but flour, oil and eggs in mixing bowl. Let dry ingredients dissolve. Stir and add all other ingredients.      

This is a very stiff dough. After mixing let relax for 3-4 hours, in bulk. Or refrigerate overnight.

A dough roller is needed for this dough and to avoid bubbling this dough must be perforated with a docker after rolling.

If this is the desired dough you're looking for we did good! If you simply want to reduce your dough less puffy try reducing the amount of yeast your using in half and storing your dough at less than 36 degrees. Another tip is cooling your water temperature to 70 degrees. Less yeast, heat, = less gas.

Last Tip: Bake at lower temperature for longer time, this tends to dry out the crust and gives a crispier texture.  

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bryan

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2004, 07:34:10 AM »
Quote
25# Batch
Egg whites seems an interesting addition.

I don't have a 60 quart hobart but I do have a 6 quart kitchenaid.  Scaling down a recipe this large to 1/10th batch is probably tricky.  When I first read Big Dave's "Old Faithful" recipe, I was asking myself the same questions I ask myself now:

This man measures water in pounds, so when he says "oz." does he mean 1/8 cup or 1/16 pound, and is he consistent about it?

Offline Steve

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2004, 07:41:55 AM »
He most certainly means weight. All commercial recipes are specificed by weight and not volume.

And, I too, had the same question: What effect do the egg whites have on the finished crust?
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Offline Randy

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2004, 08:28:03 AM »
Seems like i remember the egg whites coat the gluten strans and prevent them from developing, i.e., sponge or angel food cake.

Randy

Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2004, 10:30:19 AM »
I recalled reading a question to Tom Lehmann about using egg whites in pizza doughs.  I found the answer this morning at PMQ, as follows (in quotes).  

"Egg whites are added to a dough to help create a crispy texture. If adding liquid egg whites (albumen) you would typically add 2 to 3% egg whites. Be sure to reduce the amount of water added to the dough by the same amount. BUT, I really don't recommend adding liquid egg whites to your dough due to the sanitation issue associated with the use of liquid egg whites. If you absolutely MUST use liquid egg whites, use frozen pasteurized liquid egg whites (available from most bakery suppliers)and read up on the issues of cross contamination. Under no circumstances can I recommend using fresh eggs for this purpose. The risk is just too great.  The most practical approach is to use dry egg white/albumen. This is much easier to work with and it reduces a lot of the micro issues associated with liquid egg whites, and it doesn't need to be refrigerated, that's gotta be worth something. The amount of dry egg white to use is 12% of the weight of liquid egg whites. Liquid egg whites are approximately 12% solids and 88% water. When adding egg whites to the dough they are just added directly to the dough, no need to whip the liquid variiety, and the dry can be added directly to the flour. Do remember to stir the dry egg whites into the flour to disperse it before adding any water as direct contact with water will cause the dry egg white to pill/lump badly."

Peter

Offline DKM

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2004, 12:43:36 PM »
Interesting to use a high gluten flour and egg whites.  

Also based on my own readings I'm not sure I agree 100% with Lehmann and the use of dry whites over liquid whites.

DKM
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2004, 01:13:11 PM »
I suspect that Tom L. has a commercial setting in mind.  I can't see any reason why fresh egg whites couldn't be used in a home setting.

Peter

Offline Steve

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2004, 01:59:13 PM »
Here's Big Dave's recipe scaled down for a single test pizza:

1.00 pound High-Gluten Flour
6.40 ounces (0.8 cup) Water, 70 F.
0.05 ounce (3/8 tsp.) Active Dry Yeast
0.15 ounce (1 tsp.) Sugar
0.50 ounce (2 1/2 tsp.) Salt
0.33 ounce (2 tsp.) Vegetable Oil
0.18 ounce (1 tsp.) Egg Whites
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2004, 02:53:12 PM »
Steve,

As you were posting a scaled down version of the recipe, I was going through the same down scaling exercise.  I came up with the same numbers.  However, what I can't tell for certain is whether the egg whites specified in the recipe are dry or wet.  I have some dry egg whites ("Just Whites" brand), and if the egg whites in the recipe are wet and the conversion to dry is 12% (per Tom L.'s recommended conversion), then I come up with about 1/3 t. of the dry (1 t. of the dry weighs 2 grams, or 0.07 oz.)  If the egg whites specified in the recipe are dry, then I come up with about 2 1/2 t. dry.  It's hard for me to imagine that Big Dave would specify liquid egg whites for a commercial application--because of the health issues mentioned by Tom L.--and it would appear that adding liquid egg whites to dry flour (if you literally followed the instructions) would result in the pilling/lumping problems Tom mentions.  

Unfortunately, I can twist the instructions of the recipe both ways.  Maybe someone can provide clarification.

BTW, for those who are interested, the baker's percents I came up with are as follows: High-gluten flour (100%); water (40%); ADY (0.31%); sugar (0.94%); salt (3.31%); vegetable oil (2.03%); and egg whites (1.09%).  For the scaled-down 16 oz. of flour version, I calculated the following volume measurements for ADY, sugar, salt and vegetable oil:

   ADY, 3/8 t.
   Sugar, about 1.4 t.
   Salt, about 2 1/2 t.
   Vegetable oil, about 2 t.
   Egg whites, TBD (see above)

Regular readers should feel free to check my math--or my analysis :).

Peter
« Last Edit: October 22, 2004, 03:35:34 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2004, 08:10:35 PM »
I sent an email today to Big Dave in which I asked him what form the egg whites take in his recipe and, if in liquid form, how would one convert to dry form.  Here is his reply (in quotes):

"The egg whites are in liquid form.  They can't be converted to dry measurement.  Egg whites are a great source of protein.  The more protein the crispier the crust."

What surprised me was that the egg whites can't be converted to dry form.  I guess we'll have to get some eggs out and start weighing the whites ;D.  

Peter



Offline Randy

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2004, 08:36:45 PM »
The more protein the crispier the crust."

This by itself is a great piece of information.
 8)
Randy

Offline DKM

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2004, 09:45:19 PM »
I kinda feel stupid not having thought that.  Duh.

DKM
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Offline Steve

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2004, 07:41:23 AM »
I made one of Dave's cracker crust pizzas over the weekend. The egg whites do, in fact, produce an extry crispy crust... almost too crisp, IMHO. And, another downside, the crust is very salty.  :-\

I want to experiment some more with this recipe, perhaps cut back on the salt. My dough ball did not rise at all when left in the refrigerator for its 24 hour rest. Either I killed the yeast (doubtful), or there was so little of it (likely), or the high salt content (also likely), the dough ball was exactly the same size as when I put it in.  ???

Again, more experimentation is needed.
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Offline Randy

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2004, 08:18:40 AM »
In the dough doctors version he had you leave it for 4 hours on the counter before placing it in the cooler. How long did you leave it out?

Randy

Offline Steve

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2004, 10:10:42 AM »
It went straight into the cooler... I didn't want to chance it with the raw egg whites.

I also made a DKM Pizza Inn thin crust... it too went straight in to the cooler. It rose just fine.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2004, 10:11:32 AM by Steve »
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Offline DKM

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Re:Big Dave's Cracker Crust
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2004, 01:28:23 PM »
I'm making the Pizza Inn style tonight.  Hopefully it will work.  Last had to be thrown out after I got sick, the one before I screwed up and left out the sugar.

Going for it all now.

DKM
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