Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 93371 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #420 on: March 16, 2013, 08:16:39 AM »
Oh no, don't worry...pizza prices were great. Most everything I got was on sale too.
I meant like for things around the deli and butcher counter...you can tell they cater to people wanting "special" brand this and that type products.
I also got some Ellio's frozen pizza squares...seen folks saying good things about those over on Serious Eats...we'll see. ;)

Bob

Bob,

Good to hear the pizza prices were great.  8) I understand now what you meant that you can tell they cater to people that want special products.  I think our local supermarkets sells those Ellioís frozen pizza squares too, or at least they did.  I remember purchasing them for my children many years ago and thought they were good at that time.  I still also recall my first pizza making adventure when I was a teen.  A girlfriend of mine was Italian and an Italian neighbor lady next door to my girlfriend made great pizzas at home.  I watched her and tried to duplicate what she did at my home.  My attempt was sure a mess and at that time I had flour all over my motherís kitchen.  No wonder my mother doesnít want me to mess around with flour too much anymore in her kitchen.  :-D That was the end of my pizza making attempts (except for boxed pizza mixes) until I found this forum.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #421 on: March 16, 2013, 09:15:15 AM »
I have to watch that video more at Reply 223 to be able to duplicate how the rim crust is exactly formed.  Thanks for referencing it again.  I tried to do it that way, but my crust didnít want to stay up as good as the HRI crusts do.   

I prepared the dough by sifting the flour, salt and IDY together and just dumped the corn oil in with the water and then dumped the water and oil combination in with the other ingredients.  I just mixed with a regular fork until all the ingredients looked mixed like my mother does when she makes pie crusts.  I didnít experience hardly any problems this time, except I have to learn the fluting method better to form the rim.  The dough ball was just dumped into the flour and a little flour was put on my wooden table.  I used my regular wooden rolling pin to roll the dough.  The skin that was fluted and docked were easy to transfer to the dark disk (with a little straightening needed after it was transferred to the disk).  The pre-bake was done at 465 degrees for about 14 minutes and then after the pie was dressed it was baked for about another 13 minutes.  I donít know why my crust had more coloration than your deconstructed and reconstructed HRI pizzas.  I did use my IR gun, but it is hard to take the temperature without a pizza stone in a oven.  The floor of the oven says one temperature and the sides say another temperature, so I am not exactly sure those were accurate temperatures.

I also weighed the pie right out of the oven and it weighed 791 grams.  Wasnít that a lot of weight for this 12Ē baked pizza?

I am interested in tasting a real HRI frozen pizza.  I sure hope Harris Teeter at Fulton, MD has those HRI frozen pizzas after they checked and told me they did. 
Norma,

From the photos you posted of your latest HRI clone, I would say that you perhaps got a more flaky crust than what HRI produces with its pizzas, at least its frozen pizzas. I think that what you will find is that if you use your home stand mixer or food processor, you will end up with a much more robust dough with a more fully developed gluten structure. The salt should also help strengthen the dough more because of the more aggressive knead. As a result, the dough ball will look and feel more like a normal dough ball, not something that looks like a "brain". Moreover, when it comes time to form the rim on the skin, it will be easier to accomplish and it should stay upright longer. I think you can also expect to see some sacrifice of the flakiness in the finished crust.

With respect to the weight of your finished baked pizza, at 791 grams, or 27.90 ounces, I consider that weight to be in the "zone". According to the HRI pizza box, a frozen HRI pepperoni pizza weighs 792 grams, or 27.94 ounces. However, the actual weight of the frozen pizza on a home scale can be an ounce or ounce-and-a-half more (32-45 grams for my two HRI pepperoni pizzas). Also, the weights of the frozen pizzas already reflect the losses that the pizzas sustained as they were partially baked in HRI's frozen pizza plants. In my case, the baked weights of the two HRI pepperoni pizzas that I experimented with, and that were fully defrosted, were 782 grams (27.58 ounces) and 756 grams (26.67 ounces). However, my baked weights were a bit lower than normal because I "lost" several grams due to the deconstruction and reconstruction of the two pizzas. There is no way to know how much a typical HRI frozen pepperoni pizza loses in weight from the time the pizza is made in its frozen pizza plants and it comes out of the user's oven. But I think you can see that the weight of your pizza was in line with my numbers.

In the above vein, it should also be remembered that a typical HRI frozen pizza is baked in two steps. The first step is a pre-bake of the crust at 490 degrees F for 90 seconds. That is for a crust that rides on a conveyor belt without a carrier. After the cheese and pepperoni are added for a pepperoni pizza, the pizza is baked at 495 degrees F for three more minutes. Apparently at that stage, the pizza should have a temperature of 165 degrees F. There perhaps aren't a lot of losses in weight at those temperatures and bake times because the high oil quantity reduces the rate of evaporation of the water from the dough and also because the hydration of the dough is fairly low in the first place. So, I suspect that a fair amount of weight loss occurs during the much longer bake time in the oven of the consumer. But there is no way to know for sure. I think that you will find from future experiments that you can pre-bake your crust for a much shorter time than you used and that the total bake time can be further reduced. And that should result in a lighter final crust than you achieved.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 09:51:03 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #422 on: March 16, 2013, 10:45:01 AM »
Norma,

From the photos you posted of your latest HRI clone, I would say that you perhaps got a more flaky crust than what HRI produces with its pizzas, at least its frozen pizzas. I think that what you will find is that if you use your home stand mixer or food processor, you will end up with a much more robust dough with a more fully developed gluten structure. The salt should also help strengthen the dough more because of the more aggressive knead. As a result, the dough ball will look and feel more like a normal dough ball, not something that looks like a "brain". Moreover, when it comes time to form the rim on the skin, it will be easier to accomplish and it should stay upright longer. I think you can also expect to see some sacrifice of the flakiness in the finished crust.

With respect to the weight of your finished baked pizza, at 791 grams, or 27.90 ounces, I consider that weight to be in the "zone". According to the HRI pizza box, a frozen HRI pepperoni pizza weighs 792 grams, or 27.94 ounces. However, the actual weight of the frozen pizza on a home scale can be an ounce or ounce-and-a-half more (32-45 grams for my two HRI pepperoni pizzas). Also, the weights of the frozen pizzas already reflect the losses that the pizzas sustained as they were partially baked in HRI's frozen pizza plants. In my case, the baked weights of the two HRI pepperoni pizzas that I experimented with, and that were fully defrosted, were 782 grams (27.58 ounces) and 756 grams (26.67 ounces). However, my baked weights were a bit lower than normal because I "lost" several grams due to the deconstruction and reconstruction of the two pizzas. There is no way to know how much a typical HRI frozen pepperoni pizza loses in weight from the time the pizza is made in its frozen pizza plants and it comes out of the user's oven. But I think you can see that the weight of your pizza was in line with my numbers.

In the above vein, it should also be remembered that a typical HRI frozen pizza is baked in two steps. The first step is a pre-bake of the crust at 490 degrees F for 90 seconds. That is for a crust that rides on a conveyor belt without a carrier. After the cheese and pepperoni are added for a pepperoni pizza, the pizza is baked at 495 degrees F for three more minutes. Apparently at that stage, the pizza should have a temperature of 165 degrees F. There perhaps aren't a lot of losses in weight at those temperatures and bake times because the high oil quantity reduces the rate of evaporation of the water from the dough and also because the hydration of the dough is fairly low in the first place. So, I suspect that a fair amount of weight loss occurs during the much longer bake time in the oven of the consumer. But there is no way to know for sure. I think that you will find from future experiments that you can pre-bake your crust for a much shorter time than you used and that the total bake time can be further reduced. And that should result in a lighter final crust than you achieved.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for suggesting to use my home stand mixer or food processor the next time I make an attempt on a HRI dough.  I can understand that using one those mixing devices would give a more robust dough with a more fully developed gluten structure.  I didnít think of the salt also helping to strengthen the dough more because of the aggressive knead, but that makes sense.  I can understand too that when it is time to form the rim it would stay upright longer. 

Thanks for posting why you thought my finished baked pizza weight of 791 grams was in the ďzoneĒ.  I see now that the weight of my pizza was in line with your numbers. 

I also didnít think about when a typical HRI goes though those two steps in the bake that perhaps there arenít a lot of losses in weight at those temperatures and bake times because the high oil quantity reduces the rate of evaporation of the water from the dough and also because the hydration of the dough is fairly low in the first place.  I will try a shorter pre-bake in my next attempt.  I knew my bakes times were probably off, but really wasnít sure what to do.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #423 on: March 16, 2013, 05:58:25 PM »
FWIW,   this is only an opinion....
Over the past week I have baked 3 HRI frozen pizza's. Not only do I find the taste to be quite bland compared to the last time I had this frozen product(aprox. 2 yrs. ago) but these pizza's are also difficult to bake. Following the package directions got me an overly crisp crust and the rim was just about rock hard. Read somewhere that a defrosted pie will bake up nicer....was a 'lil better but rim was still lifeless and very hard. Pizza #3 was baked on a thick anodized hard coat cutter pan for half of rec. time and then moved to top rack without the pan....this turned out well I must say...but it was still very bland tasting. And I'm talking about a pizza with several toppings on it....it's as if it sapped the flavors right out of my toppings and left me wondering where that good 'ole HRI crust flavor went to. Extremely disappointing and I am done with this product.

The Loo's doctored dough I made before these Frozen HRI product trials was waaay better. And thanks to Norma's recent attempts here at this great pizza I have some tricks up my sleeve that I believe will help get the cloning close to fruition. I'm watching her closely; and, of course, Peter's great guidance/observations. You haven't heard the last from me on this one.  8)

But dang...sure wish this style of pizza wasn't so rich and filling(supposed to be on a diet right now ::) )
Each night my dog looks at me like...."are you sure you meant to give me this many scraps dad? "   :-D

Bob
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #424 on: March 16, 2013, 06:05:12 PM »
^i also find the frozen pizzas bland...  i would not buy them again.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #425 on: March 16, 2013, 06:16:13 PM »
Bob,

As Garvey noted at Reply 183 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg190287/topicseen.html#msg190287 , apparently there is a better way to bake the HRI frozen pizzas than to follow the instructions on the box. In my case, I had no choice but to bake the HRI frozen pizzas when they were completely defrosted since I had dismantled them and put them back together again after I had taken all of my measurements. But, even then, the rims could get quite hard if the pizzas were allowed to bake too long.

I will be interested in Norma's reactions once she has a chance to try out the frozen HRI pizzas.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:18:29 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #426 on: March 16, 2013, 06:19:53 PM »
I've made a few, and I had a rock hard rim using both Garvey's instructions, and the instructions on the box.

EDIT:  I could have baked them too long, but for the same middle "doneness," other pizzas I make don't get nearly as hard.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:22:44 PM by CDNpielover »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #427 on: March 16, 2013, 06:36:42 PM »
Bob,

As Garvey noted at Reply 183 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg190287/topicseen.html#msg190287 , apparently there is a better way to bake the HRI frozen pizzas than to follow the instructions on the box. In my case, I had no choice but to bake the HRI frozen pizzas when they were completely defrosted since I had dismantled them and put them back together again after I had taken all of my measurements. But, even then, the rims could get quite hard if the pizzas were allowed to bake too long.

I will be interested in Norma's reactions once she has a chance to try out the frozen HRI pizzas.

Peter
Yes, I forgot to post that on my pie# 3 I reduced the oven temp to 425. Half of that bake was on a thick pan so it was probably close to the results Garvey had at 410 on the rack. It does take a 'lil longer and Garvey hit it on the head with that rec.    You need the extra time to get the ingredients up to temp. and lower oven temp. to avoid the hard brittle rim...I've never seen a frozen pizza take so long to get the sauce and cheese hot. Suppose it is that oil laden dense crust not allowing good heat transfer through the dough.

I made that rant post mainly for Norma's benefit so she has some bake tips in case she scored today on the trip up North with her daughter.... ;)

Bob
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:38:28 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #428 on: March 16, 2013, 06:58:27 PM »
I find all of your conversations interesting on how to achieve a good bake on a frozen HRI pizzas.  I sure donít know what to try. 

I purchased 5 HRI frozen pizzas at Harris Teeter today.  Harris Teeter didnít have a lot of choices for the HRI frozen pizzas, but at least I should be able to taste what the HRI frozen pizzas taste like.

I should have stayed in MD.  It was about 34 degrees when my daughter and I left home and it was 54 degrees when we arrived at Harris Teeter.  When we came home it was 34 degrees again.  I like warmer weather better. 

Bob, you were right that the Harris Teeter stores are neat.  We ate our way though the samples in the store and I purchased some Shrimp Tempura Sushi to eat and had a Peteyís Bing Black drink.  All the food was good. 

I tried to post the pictures, but this is what it said.  The 3 photos are the right size limit to the best of my knowledge.  The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.  I never saw that message when I went to post pictures that the upload folder is full.

I will try in the my next post to post the pictures and see what happens.

Norma
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 07:05:54 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #429 on: March 16, 2013, 07:22:21 PM »
I find all of your conversations interesting on how to achieve a good bake on a frozen HRI pizzas.  I sure donít know what to try. 

I purchased 5 HRI frozen pizzas at Harris Teeter today.  Harris Teeter didnít have a lot of choices for the HRI frozen pizzas, but at least I should be able to taste what the HRI frozen pizzas taste like.

I should have stayed in MD.  It was about 34 degrees when my daughter and I left home and it was 54 degrees when we arrived at Harris Teeter.  When we came home it was 34 degrees again.  I like warmer weather better. 

Bob, you were right that the Harris Teeter stores are neat.  We ate our way though the samples in the store and I purchased some Shrimp Tempura Sushi to eat and had a Peteyís Bing Black drink.  All the food was good. 

I tried to post the pictures, but this is what it said.  The 3 photos are the right size limit to the best of my knowledge.  The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.  I never saw that message when I went to post pictures that the upload folder is full.

I will try in the my next post to post the pictures and see what happens.

Norma
Norma,
I would highly rec. Garvey's way......frozen, middle rack, 410 degrees.   Rotate after 15 min. and then keep your Eagle eye out on it after about another 8 min. You will be golden...trust 'ol Bob!  ;)

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #430 on: March 16, 2013, 07:30:19 PM »
Norma,
I would highly rec. Garvey's way......frozen, middle rack, 410 degrees.   Rotate after 15 min. and then keep your Eagle eye out on it after about another 8 min. You will be golden...trust 'ol Bob!  ;)

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for recommending Garvey's method of baking a HRI frozen pizza.  I am too full tonight to try one, but might try to bake one tomorrow.  I purchased two bigger frozen pizzas and 3 small frozen pizzas.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #431 on: March 16, 2013, 08:13:15 PM »
If anyone is interested, I sent Steve, the administrator of this forum, a PM why Bob and I couldnít upload pictures on this thread.  Steve told me that the attachment directory was full and he just fixed it.  Thanks Steve.  ;D

These are the pictures I was trying to upload.  I think I will have enough HRI frozen pizzas to decide if I like them or not and also will now be able to examine the crusts.

Norma
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #432 on: March 16, 2013, 08:18:14 PM »
Hey Norma, do they carry sausage HRI at Harrie Teeter?  (Is that the one that's sold out?)  They didn't have it here in Arizona, which is too bad because sausage is my favorite and Bob (I think) said it's good.

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #433 on: March 16, 2013, 08:26:09 PM »
Hey Norma, do they carry sausage HRI at Harrie Teeter?  (Is that the one that's sold out?)  They didn't have it here in Arizona, which is too bad because sausage is my favorite and Bob (I think) said it's good.

CDNpielover,

No, the Harris Teeter I went to didn't carry the HRI frozen pizza with sausage.  The empty space that was sold out was another brand of frozen pizza.  Sorry to hear in Arizona that there wasn't any HRI frozen sausage pizza either.  I would have liked to been able to try the HRI frozen sausage pizza too. 

Norma 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 08:27:43 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #434 on: March 16, 2013, 08:47:52 PM »
Hey Norma, do they carry sausage HRI at Harrie Teeter?  (Is that the one that's sold out?)  They didn't have it here in Arizona, which is too bad because sausage is my favorite and Bob (I think) said it's good.
CDN,
As always, I recommend people that are new to Chicago pizza to always try a sausage only pie.  Thin or deep...don't matter. And the same is true for a HRI pizza...but be forwarned....their sausage is kinda strange man. But it is what it is and that is still rec. to get the jist of a HRI pizza. It is not your typical Garvey homemade Chi-town fennel and other great spices or my Primio mild good an greazzy stuff. Their sausage borders on a "nasty nugget" wierd texture processed deal...much better ITRW on 31st. Street...but I'm just say'in man.

Frozen wise...I have only seen sausage with pepperoni pie's in their large size.....now the mini's I have seen with sausage only. Not sure why they seem to be all over the map with their different topping availabilities. I assume it has to do with regional favorites but even that appears a bit hokus pokus to me....Craig would know more about these marketing  disparities than I...

Bob

edit: changed "of" to "on" in reference to their sausage being better in person...i.e.  31st. Street
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 08:54:38 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #435 on: March 16, 2013, 08:49:56 PM »
CDN,
As always, I recommend people that are new to Chicago pizza to always try a sausage only pie.  Thin or deep...don't matter. And the same is true for a HRI pizza...but be forwarned....their sausage is kinda strange man. But it is what it is and that is still rec. to get the jist of a HRI pizza. It is not your typical Garvey homemade Chi-town fennel and other great spices or my Primio mild good an greazzy stuff. Their sausage borders on a "nasty nugget" wierd texture processed deal...much better ITRW of 31st. Street...but I'm just say'in man.

Frozen wise...I have only seen sausage and pepperoni pie's in their large size.....the mini's I have seen with sausage only. Not sure why they seem to be all over the map with their different topping availabilities. I assume it has to do with regional favorites but even that appears a bit hokus pokus to me....Craig would know more about these marketing  disparities than I...

Bob

Lol after reading that I can't say I really want to try it!  Not really a fan of their frozen pies anyhow.  :chef:

Garvey's sausage is killer btw
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 08:51:36 PM by CDNpielover »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #436 on: March 16, 2013, 08:59:53 PM »
Lol after reading that I can't say I really want to try it!  Not really a fan of their frozen pies anyhow.  :chef:

Garvey's sausage is killer btw
Well CDN...you never know. It will give you a "hit" of being in Chi-town, and my critique may be a bit harsh(but I don't think so 8) ). Heck, if you can even find one ...for the price it ain't gonna break the bank to at least try one. ya never know...you might like it!  ;D

Do you own a dog?    >:D
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #437 on: March 16, 2013, 09:03:41 PM »
To be honest, I don't care much for their frozen pizzas...  I think the dough has some interesting qualities, and this thread is great, but it's just not my thing I suppose.  I'm guessing their fresh pizzas are much better than their frozen pies, otherwise I can't understand the hype!   :chef:

Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #438 on: March 17, 2013, 11:29:01 AM »
I wonder if there are any other mumblings out on the web of them changing their recipe? in my frozen pizzas experience growing up in the burbs I would get home run Inn or reggios.  their sausages are totally different but in my memory I thought their crusts were similar. and they were both good for being frozen pizzas.   anyone have a reggios lately?

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #439 on: March 17, 2013, 11:30:57 AM »
I emailed Home Run Inn and said they I saw on the web that people seemed to be having problems when trying to bake a frozen HRI pizza in their home ovens.  I said some people have reported the crust became too tough or too brown and I had read the baking instructions on the back of the box and would like HRIís opinion on how to precede with the bake of a frozen pizza so I could have the best results.  I also said I would like my frozen pizzas to turn out like Home Run Innís fresh pizzas out of their conveyor ovens.  This is what Home Run Inn replied to me. 

The directions on the box assuming the oven is calibrated accurately. Create pizza very close the conveyor cooked pizza. Good luck. And let me know how it goes.

I am going to try to bake a HRI small frozen cheese pizza early in the afternoon.

Does anyone have any other questions they want me to ask of Home Run Inn?

Norma
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