Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 87939 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21642
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #520 on: March 22, 2013, 09:12:47 PM »
hee!!  i dont want you to ruin your dough!!!  i need to seek out peter's posts of the temps of those presses and the times!  i do have a cast iron pan!!!! what fun!!  Norma, read the review of your new york pizza here!  saw those pics!  man you are so adept at so many different pizzas your new york looked awesome!!!!!  the reviewer also thought so!  way to go!!!!

Terry,

I would not try your idea on the skin I have cold fermenting, but I wouldn't see how you could control the temperature of something like you want to try.  I wish you luck if you decide to use your cast iron pan.  I have different cast iron pans too.   :-D

Norma
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 09:26:09 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #521 on: March 22, 2013, 09:13:46 PM »
there has to be a patent out there on those dough presses, and in the claims of those inventions they should iterate every advantage they may have to the pizza making process, and if they do indeed induce layers they should speak of it in those claims in order to be protected and to have a stronger patent....i wonder if HRI has any patents....i need to search!!!

Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #522 on: March 22, 2013, 09:16:10 PM »
Terry,

I would not try your idea on the dough I have cold fermenting, but I wouldn't see how you could control the temperature of something like you want to try.  I wish you luck if you decide to use your cast iron pan.  I have different cast iron pans too.   :-D

Norma
i need to check the temps, but if the cast iron pan is heavy and iron, it should hold heat pretty well, for enough time for the press.  it has a large thermal mass and like your pizza stones, once the entire thing is heated to the desired temp for a good period of time, it can hold the temp pretty welll i would imagine for several pressings!!!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21642
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #523 on: March 22, 2013, 09:20:11 PM »
Terry,

I don’t want to get this thread too far off topic, but I did try a waffle iron to bake a pizza.   :-D http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11568.0.html

That pizza is one reason I don't think your idea is too crazy.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #524 on: March 22, 2013, 09:20:23 PM »
now if i try this, using 2 cast iron pans heated i think would simulate their machine better! one turned over the other normal and opress down with it with all your might!  i think their presses are heated top and bottom!

Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #525 on: March 22, 2013, 09:21:58 PM »
Terry,

I don’t want to get this thread too far off topic, but I did try a waffle iron to bake a pizza.   :-D http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11568.0.html

That pizza is one reason I don't think your idea is too crazy.

Norma


wow!! you are good!!!  not too far off topic at all!  this could be something!  great work Norma!!  man you are creative and an excellent pizza maker!!! thank you!!!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #526 on: March 22, 2013, 09:23:41 PM »
hee!!  i dont want you to ruin your dough!!!  i need to seek out peter's posts of the temps of those presses and the times!  i do have a cast iron pan!!!! what fun!!  Norma, read the review of your new york pizza here!  saw those pics!  man you are so adept at so many different pizzas your new york looked awesome!!!!!  the reviewer also thought so!  way to go!!!!
I believe it is 800 + degrees Terry...also, it is a "press", probably some hydraulic 10 ton contraption that has timed sequence too just to make it harder for us!  :-D

But I sure like the way you are thinking about this dude...very impressive to say the least!  :chef:
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 09:25:36 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21642
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #527 on: March 22, 2013, 09:24:13 PM »
wow!! you are good!!!  not too far off topic at all!  this could be something!  great work Norma!!  man you are creative and an excellent pizza maker!!! thank you!!!

Terry,

I am not really that good, but just like to experiment to see what happens.  I have been known for trying crazy stuff.

Wait and see what Peter has to say.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #528 on: March 22, 2013, 09:34:31 PM »
I believe it is 800 + degrees Terry...also, it is a "press", probably some hydraulic 10 ton contraption that has timed sequence too just to make it harder for us!  :-D

But I sure like the way you are thinking about this dude...very impressive to say the least!  :chef:
oh my word!! that is high!!!  only way i could do it would be to put the pans in my wfo for a couple hours, and then i would need to work out 3 times a day with free weights for about 3 years and then try and not succeed!  however i wonder if we can get a proof of concept with a lower temp....slower compression.....400 twice as long on the compression....wow!  i need to remember though its just proof of concept we need only a small piece of dough and a couple layers to show up!!

Offline Garvey

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 463
  • I wish could have pizza every day.
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #529 on: March 22, 2013, 10:54:43 PM »
What about using two cutter pans (that nest)? 


Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #530 on: March 22, 2013, 11:08:12 PM »
heck yeah!!  will they hold heat long enough?  ok, again i must think! proof of concept..we just need to see layers! doesnt need to be perfect.  ok i  heat the pans! put the skin between! run it out to the driveway and run over it with the car!!  ok ok! im gettin carried away with the compression! but still heat em put the skin (or i guess dough ball) in between then sit on it stand on it! do whatever you can for great compression!  hell!   thats a good idea Garvey!  i like it!  makes a nice rimn too!! Nice!!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #531 on: March 22, 2013, 11:14:28 PM »
heck yeah!!  will they hold heat long enough?  ok, again i must think! proof of concept..we just need to see layers! doesnt need to be perfect.  ok i  heat the pans! put the skin between! run it out to the driveway and run over it with the car!!  ok ok! im gettin carried away with the compression! but still heat em put the skin (or i guess dough ball) in between then sit on it stand on it! do whatever you can for great compression!  hell!   thats a good idea Garvey!  i like it!  makes a nice rimn too!! Nice!!
Ok that's it Terry...I'm sorry but I feel it my duty to ask you, check that...plead with you to step back away from this idea before you end up hurting yourself...or, even worse, your poor car man!  :o

Pizza Pal,
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #532 on: March 22, 2013, 11:19:23 PM »
alright!!  but when i  back get back to work on monday im gonna use the patent database and do some patent searches!!!!  right on Bob!!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #533 on: March 22, 2013, 11:34:55 PM »
alright!!  but when i  back get back to work on monday im gonna use the patent database and do some patent searches!!!!  right on Bob!!
Ok buddy....that sounds harmless enough I guess. I do admire your tenacity Terry.  :-\

Bob   ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Garvey

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 463
  • I wish could have pizza every day.
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #534 on: March 22, 2013, 11:47:15 PM »
I could see this being messy.  What if you had three cutter pans: cold press the dough with your fingers into the "middle" pan, making sure to get some kind of rim going, and then nest that pan between two blazing hot pans.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #535 on: March 22, 2013, 11:58:01 PM »
I could see this being messy.  What if you had three cutter pans: cold press the dough with your fingers into the "middle" pan, making sure to get some kind of rim going, and then nest that pan between two blazing hot pans.
And clamp it all together with 3 pairs of vise grips maybe.... ???
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline mrmojo1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 338
  • pizza sans frontières
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #536 on: March 23, 2013, 12:13:28 AM »
NICE!!

Offline Garvey

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 463
  • I wish could have pizza every day.
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #537 on: March 23, 2013, 12:45:20 AM »
If the dough is already rolled out/pressed out to size, I don't think you need much extra pressure at all except enough to ensure the transfer the heat from the other pans.  I.e., the heavy pressing is for a cold dough ball.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21904
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #538 on: March 23, 2013, 08:00:37 AM »
I think it would be instructive if we all went back and reread the pertinent parts of the three articles referenced below, and also reviewed the YouTube video as also presented below:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080121222757/http://www.pmq.com/mag/200705/article.php?story=lehmann

http://web.archive.org/web/20100626072731/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2002summer/doughformer.shtml

http://web.archive.org/web/20090607015955/http://www.pmq.com/mag/200805/topform.php (Note: See edit on next post)
California Pizza Kitchen Pizza Dough


I believe that the above articles and video make it clear that a primary purpose of a dough press is to increase the production rate of skins, just as the sheeters that HRI used in the 1940s made it easier and faster to form the skins than doing it by hand. According to HRI, when it went to dough presses, in 1990, it tripled its throughput. Of course, with a hot dough press, you get some additional things beyond just forming the skins, like highly compressing the skins and getting application of heat. However, as the Colombo article referenced above mentions, the skins are not cooked or baked. The hot press raises the gluten gel to the surface and, as Tom Lehmann frequently says, an "exoskeleton" is formed that creates a top surface that is semi-fixed and holds the steam center as the crust bakes. At the option of the user, the skins can be proofed if desired, as is done in HRI's pizzerias (for about 15-20 minutes), or dressed and baked (or par-baked in HRI's case) right after coming out of the hot press, as is done at HRI's frozen pizza plants.

In HRI's case, I believe that the dough formulation and related dough making and baking methods may be more critical to the success of the HRI pizzas than the hot dough press, or otherwise every skin produced by a hot press would yield a crust that is flaky, which we know not to be true. So, my focus would be to first get the dough formulation, and also the form, fit and function, correct before thinking about home solutions to the hot dough press. If it later turns out that the dough press is the reason for the flakiness, then members can resort to whatever solutions they can devise in a home setting.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 10:12:44 AM by Pete-zza »

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21904
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #539 on: March 23, 2013, 10:20:51 AM »
For some reason, the link to the Sarah Colombo article that I referenced in the last post does not always work. I tried to insert the link into my post as suggested by Steve (I tried a couple of ways), and had success doing so, but later it did not open up to the correct article. So I believe that the problem is at the Wayback Machine rather than on the forum. Consequently, I have decided to excerpt the part of the article that relates to dough presses. Here it is:

Hot presses work by using a manual or motor-operated heated platen to press a dough ball into a die cavity. They can create different shapes, including traditional round and rectangle crusts. Hot presses are ideal for forming oven-rising pizzas with a raised edge. Some of these presses even offer optional mold inserts that recreate the shape of hand-formed pizzas. Hot presses also have thickness adjustments so you can predetermine the exact diameter of the skin. Dan Rio, president of Dough XPress, a division of Hix Corporation in Pittsburg, Kansas, says that makes hot presses ideal for pizzerias that use conveyor ovens. "With a certain thickness setting, a 16-ounce dough ball will come out to be 14" every time," he says.

Hot presses usually require the aid of relaxing ingredients, such as oil, to help the dough stretch and to reduce shrinkage while it bakes. And because the heated platen activates the dough yeast to some degree, the dough needs to be baked immediately after it's pressed. However, most manufacturers agree that this heat exposure doesn't critically affect the structure of the dough. "People are under the assumption that the heated platen cooks the dough, but it doesn't," explains Dale LaRose, sales manager of Cuppone America, a division of Global Industries in Manteca, California. "When you press dough, it brings the gluten gel to the surface, seals that formed pizza base, and holds the steam center inside when it bakes." Like sheeters, hot presses come in different sizes to accommodate various production levels at pizzerias. Although most presses can't accommodate the volume typically produced by sheeters, they're generally less labor-intensive to operate. "There is very little employee training involved with a press, because all they need to know how to do is press a button," says Larry Serafin, marketing manager for the Dolton, Illinois-based AM Manufacturing Company.

Cold presses, which are popular in high-production markets, perform a similar function to hot presses, except they don't rely on heat activation. Instead, they form using a high water-absorption process and dough set to a high temperature (generally around 100°F). Cold presses require that the dough is very soft to form, which can make it difficult to create a welldefined, raised-edge crust. However, they also afford a unique opportunity by allowing you to finish forming the dough by hand. Like hot presses, cold presses rely on oil or similar activating ingredients. Cold presses are also ideal for making focaccia bread, and can produce unique, fried-bottom crust pizzas.


Peter


 

pizzapan