Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 89602 times)

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Offline redox

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #680 on: April 15, 2013, 04:06:24 PM »
Peter,
About 1 or two hours from now I'll make up the dough using these figures. If you have any thoughts or changes, I'll check back about 5:30 PM EDT.
Flour (100%):
Water (50%):
ADY (2.1%):
Salt (2.0%):
Corn Oil (19%):
Total (173.1%):
249.16 g  |  8.79 oz | 0.55 lbs
124.58 g  |  4.39 oz | 0.27 lbs
5.23 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.38 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
4.98 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
47.34 g | 1.67 oz | 0.1 lbs | 10.52 tsp | 3.51 tbsp
431.3 g | 15.21 oz | 0.95 lbs | TF = 0.1345169


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #681 on: April 15, 2013, 04:49:34 PM »
Jay,

The numbers are correct. Just be sure to scale the finished dough ball to 15 ounces. That weight might increase a bit again if you find it necessary to use bench flour when time comes to form the skin.

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #682 on: April 15, 2013, 06:23:00 PM »
I swear this thread is becoming the main event around here.  Sure wish Peter and Norma could try a frozen pizza from Giordanos and put the same effort into duplicating that masterpiece.

Have you tried any of the Giordano's clone recipes here?  I was pretty happy with the one I made (and posted about).  I think the homemade versions surpass Giordano's, which is pretty bland, IMO.

Garvey

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #683 on: April 15, 2013, 06:46:10 PM »
I swear this thread is becoming the main event around here.  Sure wish Peter and Norma could try a frozen pizza from Giordanos and put the same effort into duplicating that masterpiece.

Nate,

I never purchased a real Giordanos pizza, or any frozen ones, but did make some attempts on making a Giordanos pizza.  There are some good formulations here on the forum for a Giordanos pizza.

Norma
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #684 on: April 16, 2013, 07:59:05 AM »
Have you tried any of the Giordano's clone recipes here?  I was pretty happy with the one I made (and posted about).  I think the homemade versions surpass Giordano's, which is pretty bland, IMO.

Garvey


Yes I have tried many formulations and the taste or texture just isn't there.  Giordanos crust has a very distinct and different taste to it.  Not sure if this is coming from the fat/oil they are using or what?  Their crust is layered as well.
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Offline redox

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #685 on: April 16, 2013, 05:24:14 PM »
I checked the dough after 24 hours and a large gas bubble deflated when I removed the lid. Should I punch it down or leave it alone, I wonder?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #686 on: April 16, 2013, 05:35:47 PM »
Jay,

You can pinch it shut.

Peter

Offline redox

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #687 on: April 16, 2013, 06:59:09 PM »
Ditto. I just got back from the doctors office....Bronchitis.  >:(
Bob,
I hope you're feeling better, I miss your input. Take care of yourself.  :)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #688 on: April 16, 2013, 07:15:07 PM »
Thank you Jay, I'm get'in there and you are very nice.
That dough ball of your's looks right and I can't wait to see how it turns out.  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #689 on: April 16, 2013, 09:54:11 PM »
yeah!! me too! cant wait to see and hear about your results Jay!!  im loving this thread!!  i am learning a lot!! 

Get better Bob!  i used to get chronic bronchitis!!  it can be  so tiring!!  yuck!!


Offline redox

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #690 on: April 17, 2013, 08:12:53 AM »
Jay,

I think I would go with 50% hydration, 2.1% dry ADY (that is, no prehydration), 2% salt and 19% corn oil. That is the formulation that I planned to try next. I would look for a two-day cold fermentation. I would prepare the skin in the manner that I previously suggested to Norma, and that she used for her last HRI clone. That is, I would prepare the skin on a floured wooden peel (using a rolling pin or by hand); after forming the skin to 12", dock it while still on the peel; load the docked skin onto the carrier (either a dark anodized perforated disk or cutter pan); form the fluted rim (the final diameter of the fluted skin should be about 11 1/2"); and proof the skin for about 15 minutes at room temperature. If needed or desired, you can reform the fluted rim after the proof period if it droops and leans one way or the other. I am hoping that the reduced hydration and the use of less ADY, along with the two-day cold fermentation, translates into a sturdy skin with an upstanding fluted rim and without dimples.

If you plan to go light on the cheese and toppings, you might dress the pizza in the usual manner and bake it at about 425-450 degrees F until the crust at the rim and bottom is of the desired degree of browning. If you plan to use a lot of cheese and toppings, you might get better results pre-baking the skin until it turns a very light brown color (basically a hint of gold), and then dress and finish the bake. Ovens vary so you may have to decide which oven rack position to use and how long to bake the pizza. In my oven, and especially if I use a lot of cheese and toppings, I find it necessary to move the pizza to a higher oven rack position to get more top heat to melt and slightly brown the cheese.

If you need any help on the amounts of cheese, sauce and toppings to use for the pizza you would like to make, I think I can give you those numbers.

Peter
Peter,
I'm doing a sausage and mushroom pizza, using Meijer's Italian Sausage (it's what my wife picked up). I'm not going light on the toppings, I'll leave that to the more sophisticated pizza-teers. Me, I like my goodies. So it looks like I'll need to to a pre-bake. If you have any numbers for temperatures, cheese, sausage, etc. it'd be appreciated. I'll take a lot of pics, all the while trying to hold off the ravening wolverine that is my wife when there's a pizza to be had. People have lost fingers, we try not to bring it up at family functions.  :o

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #691 on: April 17, 2013, 08:35:17 AM »
FWIW, a couple of forum members making DD recently have tried mixing oil and flour first, prior to adding water and other ingredients, and the results have been flaky/layery (e.g., http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24593.0.html).

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #692 on: April 17, 2013, 10:11:26 AM »
I'm doing a sausage and mushroom pizza, using Meijer's Italian Sausage (it's what my wife picked up). I'm not going light on the toppings, I'll leave that to the more sophisticated pizza-teers. Me, I like my goodies. So it looks like I'll need to to a pre-bake. If you have any numbers for temperatures, cheese, sausage, etc. it'd be appreciated. I'll take a lot of pics, all the while trying to hold off the ravening wolverine that is my wife when there's a pizza to be had. People have lost fingers, we try not to bring it up at family functions.  :o

Jay,

From http://www.grocerycouponnetwork.com/foodproducts/products.php?Id=19071, it appears that there are five links to the package of Meijer Italian sausage. Elsewhere, I read that the package weighs about 20 ounces (net weight). On that basis, for a 12" pizza I would use two links, with the sausage meat removed from its casing. That should translate to between 7 and 8 ounces of raw sausage. For the mozzarella cheese (low moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese, diced), I would go with around 6 ounces. HRI does not sell a Classic frozen pizza with mushrooms, but it does sell a sausage and mushroom pizza in its Signature line (http://www.homeruninnpizza.com/frozen-pizza/details?alias=sausage-mushroom). I don't know if the mushrooms are raw, cooked or canned (one Yelp reviewer said canned), either on its frozen pizzas or in its pizzerias, but absent any feedback from one of our members to enlighten us on this point, I think I would use around 4.5 ounces of raw, sliced mushroom that are then sauteed in a bit of olive oil, to add flavor as well as to reduce the amount of water released onto the pizza during baking. In this regard, you will note that the ingredients list for the HRI Signature Sausage & Mushroom pizza describes the mushrooms only as "Mushrooms", whatever that means. I estimate that the weight of the mushrooms after a light sauteing in olive oil should weigh a little over 3 ounces. 

For the sauce, I would use around 4 ounces by weight, or a bit more if you like more sauce. The dough ball weight should be around 15 ounces.

Adding up all of the above weights gives us an unbaked pizza weight of close to 36 ounces. I don't know what dough ball weight HRI uses for its frozen Signature Sausage & Pepperoni pizzas but even after baking the finished pizza weight will be a few ounces more than the Signature par-baked Sausage & Pepperoni pizza. It is quite possible that your pizza will have considerably more sausage on it.

I have no particularly good advice on the baking temperatures and times to use in your case since each oven is different. I would follow the visual cues that I mentioned in Reply 678 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg248622.html#msg248622 and be prepared to move the pizza around in the oven should it need more top or bottom browning.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #693 on: April 17, 2013, 11:47:03 AM »
FWIW, a couple of forum members making DD recently have tried mixing oil and flour first, prior to adding water and other ingredients, and the results have been flaky/layery (e.g., http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24593.0.html).

This subject came up earlier in this thread and, along with the article about the way that HRI makes its frozen pizzas, prompted me to try adding the oil to the flour before the water (the article was silent about when the water is added). I tried this method using both my food processor and my stand mixer (I started with the whisk attachment when I used the stand mixer). I can't say that the results were conclusive. Actually, the pizza that produced the greatest amount of flaking in the crust was the first one I tried, where I added the water before the oil. The dough for that pizza had a hydration of 53%, 2.5% IDY, 2% salt, and 19% corn oil. After the later clones did not exhibit the same degree of flakiness, I revisited what I had done with the first pizza. The only explanation I could find is that the crust diameter was greater than 11.5" (the size of a frozen 12" HRI pizza). I had expected that there would be greater shrinkage during baking. I had rolled out the skin to 13", and formed the fluted rim to achieve a final diameter (unbaked) of 12 1/2", figuring that the crust would shrink about an inch after pre-baking. It did not. The weight of the crust after pre-baking was very close to the weights of the crusts of the frozen HRI pizzas that I later dismantled. That led me to believe that HRI is using about 15 ounces of dough for its 12" frozen pizzas.

When things like this happen, like it or not, you are left to conduct more experiments. Maybe at some point I will repeat the first experiment to see if I achieve the same results as originally achieved. 

Peter

Offline pythonic

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #694 on: April 17, 2013, 12:09:31 PM »
Peter,

The oil/fats must be cold for it to work.  The steam creates the layers/flakiness.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #695 on: April 17, 2013, 12:14:23 PM »
The oil/fats must be cold for it to work.  The steam creates the layers/flakiness.
Nate,

When you say cold, do you mean that the oil should be cold at the time of making the dough, or that the dough at the time of making the skin should be cold? If the latter, I tried using the dough while cold except that I let the skin on the perforated disk warm up for 15 minutes at room temperature before proceeding further, as is reportedly the case with the skins used in HRI's pizzerias.

Peter

Offline redox

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #696 on: April 17, 2013, 12:33:09 PM »
I'll be doing this on my baking disk to make it easy to move to a different oven shelf. The dough doesn't have a really strong"yeasty" smell as I thought it might but it does smell nice and fresh.
Holy crap, did I just do a Summer's Eve bit?  :-[

Offline pythonic

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #697 on: April 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM »
Nate,

When you say cold, do you mean that the oil should be cold at the time of making the dough, or that the dough at the time of making the skin should be cold? If the latter, I tried using the dough while cold except that I let the skin on the perforated disk warm up for 15 minutes at room temperature before proceeding further, as is reportedly the case with the skins used in HRI's pizzerias.

Peter


Yes the dough must be cold.  So it did not work then?  Butter works far better than oil.  Shortening would probably work too.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #698 on: April 17, 2013, 03:36:07 PM »

Yes the dough must be cold.  So it did not work then?
Nate,

Only partly and not consistently. However, for some of the pizzas, I used a lot of toppings. And my standard home electric oven is not a match for the conveyor ovens that HRI uses in its pizzerias and frozen pizza plants. Also, while I would like to be able to replicate the flakiness of an HRI crust, and I will still work toward that end, it would not devastate me not to achieve that result. I have been happy with the "pizzeria" versions that I have been making. To my palate, they are superior to the frozen HRI pizzas that I tried a while back. At the same time, there is a convenience factor that attaches to the frozen HRI pizzas, so I can understand that some people will want to keep a few in the freezer for when a snack attack strikes.

Peter

Offline pythonic

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #699 on: April 17, 2013, 05:35:35 PM »
Nate,

Only partly and not consistently. However, for some of the pizzas, I used a lot of toppings. And my standard home electric oven is not a match for the conveyor ovens that HRI uses in its pizzerias and frozen pizza plants. Also, while I would like to be able to replicate the flakiness of an HRI crust, and I will still work toward that end, it would not devastate me not to achieve that result. I have been happy with the "pizzeria" versions that I have been making. To my palate, they are superior to the frozen HRI pizzas that I tried a while back. At the same time, there is a convenience factor that attaches to the frozen HRI pizzas, so I can understand that some people will want to keep a few in the freezer for when a snack attack strikes.

Peter

Did u see the frozen ny pies I made?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


 

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