Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 85155 times)

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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #240 on: March 07, 2013, 06:15:46 PM »
Pix or it didn't happen.   ;D


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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #241 on: March 07, 2013, 07:03:43 PM »
Pix or it didn't happen.   ;D
OK man...but you really should be careful with what you ask for. She was not a pretty site dude!  ;D
I think my heavy hand with the "last topping" oregano shake had something to do with the grey look also besides the weird cheese blend...oh well.  :-[

edit: pic #4 looks pretty good though I guess, you can see the crumb action.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:07:02 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #242 on: March 07, 2013, 07:23:48 PM »
Any comments,questions, suggestions....I'm all ears.
Bob,

I commend you for a job well done, even without seeing any photos!!

Based on everything that I know about HRI pizzas and all of the analysis I have done with the HRI Nutrition Facts for frozen pizzas (the only data I have), I believe that you have come very close to emulating the HRI sausage pizza, even if there were some mishaps. I am very impressed.

You threw me a curve ball by making a 10" pizza rather than a 12" pizza, which is the size of a frozen HRI sausage pizza (it is actually a 11 1/2" pizza), but I worked down my numbers from the 12" size to the 10" size, and I believe that your numbers are quite good. The thickness factor is very similar to what I calculated, and should give you the crust thickness of an HRI pizza, and the amounts of cheese and sausage are very much in line with my numbers. I think your sauce quantity may be a bit high, but I don't have a good feel on that at this point because most tomato sauces constitute about 88-90% water, yet not all of the water in a sauce is given up during baking. I still have some testing to do on this, so maybe I will have a better feel on how the sauce behaves during baking after I have finished my tests.

I definitely think your salt level is too low. Most of the sodium in an HRI pizza is in the mozzarella cheese and to a much lesser degree in the sauce (and, in your case, the sausage). I studied the sodium levels of four different Stanislaus and Escalon products and their sodium levels did not change the total sodium numbers much. I suggest that you use 2% salt. That is a level that I tried based on my analysis of the HRI Nutrition Facts, and when I did a side-by-side test with a real HRI pizza, I could not detect any difference in salt levels. From a salt standpoint, the two crusts were indistinguishable. Even the crusts were very similar, which was perhaps due to having the right thickness factor, as well as the proper amount of corn oil.

I think you can also increase the amount of yeast. That, along with using more salt, should give you more crust flavor. Using up to three days of cold fermentation should also help on the crust flavor front.

Although the FDA gives companies a lot of latitude on the Nutrition Facts, which I call the 20% rule, I feel that the mozzarella cheese that seems to most closely fit the HRI Nutrition Facts, especially when combined with the corn oil, both of which are part of the Total Fat and Sat Fat numbers in the HRI Nutrition Facts, is a low-moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese with the following profile: Serving size: 28-30 grams; Total Fat: 6 grams; Sat Fat: 3.5 grams; Cholesterol: 15mg; and Protein: 7-8 grams. The Sodium numbers vary from brand to brand, but there are countless low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheeses that fit the above profile, both national brands like Precious (the brand I found at my local supermarket), Frigo, Dragone or Stella, as well as many supermarket brands, like Kroger.

HRI makes a point of telling everyone that it uses a heavy puree to make its pizza sauce. My research shows that it is probably using a Stanislaus puree product. So, that would be a good choice. I do not have access to any Stanislaus puree product so my thought was to use the Classico puree as sold at many Wal-Marts. Unfortunately, my local Wal-Mart does not carry that particular Classico product. I ended up using a Cento puree but it was not as sweet as the fresh-pack tomatoes.

If you tweak your formulation along the lines discussed above, I think you can come quite close to the HRI frozen pizzas. The main challenge will be to get the flakiness of an HRI crust, and determining how to prepare the skins and bake the pizzas. I used a rolling pin to roll out the skin, even though I could have formed the skin by hand, and I docked the skin, just as HRI does. I used both a perforated disk and a perforated cutter pan (dark anodized). They both work quite well although at some point I may try using a pizza screen just to see if that is a better option. In my tests, I could not detect a material difference between my crusts and the HRI crusts. I even cut the pizzas into small pieces, closed my eyes, moved the pieces around, and then ate them, also while my eyes were closed. I couldn't tell which was which. Maybe I am not skilled enough or have a lousy taste palate, but I honestly couldn't detect a difference. Even the final pizza weights after baking were very close. The HRI pizza after baking was 756 grams. My clone pizza weighed 760 grams. Everything was based on my calculations but maybe luck was also a factor.

I look forward to your results with the dough that you have in the refrigerator.

Peter

 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:26:32 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #243 on: March 07, 2013, 08:02:17 PM »
Peter,
Thanks for the compliment and, most importantly, your observations/suggestions.
Now, here's the deal with that pizza...

I remembered reading somewhere that trying less salt in this HRI dough might give a more pronounced "yeasty" flavor...and given the fact that I intended to use 3oz. of Scamorza(quite salty cheese) along with 2oz each of WM mozz and a dry Asiago and my "emergency" timing...I thought I could maybe cheat the dough into giving up more than it was(ultimately) capable of. And the cheeses saltynes would make up for flavor. I am now wondering if a longer ferment might provide the correct/anticipated "yeasty" results while maintaining the current relatively low salt level in my dough formula(.50).

Also,about the sauce. I understand that my sauce amount may seem high...I cheated on this last minute pie and used my Classico ground product that is always in my frig. Their ground sauce weighs more than their crushed(I believe) and I would assume that both,individually, weigh more than if one used the (proper) tomato puree product that belongs on this type of pizza. My next one will have puree. Note: I am weighing the sauce amounts so my amount here may actually be more in line with what you are experiencing with the data info.

Lastly, you may want to try Contadina paste with water...I like the puree it makes.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:04:51 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #244 on: March 07, 2013, 08:46:40 PM »
OK man...but you really should be careful with what you ask for. She was not a pretty site dude!  ;D
I think my heavy hand with the "last topping" oregano shake had something to do with the grey look also besides the weird cheese blend...oh well.  :-[

edit: pic #4 looks pretty good though I guess, you can see the crumb action.

Bob,

Thanks for posting the pictures.  Your HRI clone attempt looks very pleasing to my eyes.   ;) How did you bake that pizza?  How would describe the crust texture when eaten and what texture does a real HRI pizza have?

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #245 on: March 07, 2013, 09:17:04 PM »
Bob,

Thanks for posting the pictures.  Your HRI clone attempt looks very pleasing to my eyes.   ;) How did you bake that pizza?  How would describe the crust texture when eaten and what texture does a real HRI pizza have?

Norma
Thank you Norma,
 I think your Mom's oven is the same as mine if I remember. Anyway, it was in a cutter pan 450 degrees aprox. 18mins.
Texture is hard to describe.. try to imagine a graham cracker that is hot but maybe just a little denser and a bit more oil in it yet still has some crunch to it. Sorry, but that's the best I can do Norma.  :(

I still have your address and while it's still cold out here in our little slice of the world I would gladly send you a small HRI frozen...my treat. Just check out the website and let me know what flavor you'd like to try. It's a fun pizza to eat and their sausage is really interesting. Definetly a once in a while special treat 'cause this baby is real rich.  :o Jus PM me with your selection...it's time you tried this!  :)

Bob
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #246 on: March 07, 2013, 09:47:25 PM »
Thank you Norma,
 I think your Mom's oven is the same as mine if I remember. Anyway, it was in a cutter pan 450 degrees aprox. 18mins.
Texture is hard to describe.. try to imagine a graham cracker that is hot but maybe just a little denser and a bit more oil in it yet still has some crunch to it. Sorry, but that's the best I can do Norma.  :(

I still have your address and while it's still cold out here in our little slice of the world I would gladly send you a small HRI frozen...my treat. Just check out the website and let me know what flavor you'd like to try. It's a fun pizza to eat and their sausage is really interesting. Definetly a once in a while special treat 'cause this baby is real rich.  :o Jus PM me with your selection...it's time you tried this!  :)

Bob

Bob,

My mom has a propane gas oven.  Is that the kind you have?  Thanks for telling me how many minutes you baked for at what temperature.  

I have a cutter pan at market.  I appreciate you explaining to me what you think the texture is like.  

I also appreciate it very much that you would be willing to send me a small HRI frozen pizza.  :-* I don’t know how cold it is in your area, but it is supposed to be going into the 50’s in the next few days in my area.  I am not sure how a frozen pizza would ship in that kind of temperature, especially if meat were added.  I sure would like to try a HRI frozen pizza though.   Thanks so much for your kind offer of a treat for me!

I might try a HRI clone either at my home, or at my mom’s home this weekend, but don’t bet on it.  :-D

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #247 on: March 07, 2013, 10:16:15 PM »
Bob,

My mom has a propane gas oven.  Is that the kind you have?  Thanks for telling me how many minutes you baked for at what temperature.  

I have a cutter pan at market.  I appreciate you explaining to me what you think the texture is like.  

I also appreciate it very much that you would be willing to send me a small HRI frozen pizza.  :-* I don’t know how cold it is in your area, but it is supposed to be going into the 50’s in the next few days in my area.  I am not sure how a frozen pizza would ship in that kind of temperature, especially if meat were added.  I sure would like to try a HRI frozen pizza though.   Thanks so much for your kind offer of a treat for me!

I might try a HRI clone either at my home, or at my mom’s home this weekend, but don’t bet on it.  :-D

Norma
Norma,

Yes, your Mom and I have the same oven dealeo...I knew I remembered it from some other bake situation we once talked about.
I'm just a little South of you...was in the 40's today.
Don't sweat the small stuff Norma...maybe you forgot that I recently told you about a "new and improved" shipping method I figured out.  ;)   Now you jus step aside and Bob will handle this little lady... :-D
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #248 on: March 07, 2013, 10:43:27 PM »
Norma,

Yes, your Mom and I have the same oven dealeo...I knew I remembered it from some other bake situation we once talked about.
I'm just a little South of you...was in the 40's today.
Don't sweat the small stuff Norma...maybe you forgot that I recently told you about a "new and improved" shipping method I figured out.  ;)   Now you jus step aside and Bob will handle this little lady... :-D

Bob,

Your memory was quite good in recalling about my mom’s oven.  ;D

I recall you posted that you recently told me about a “new and improved”  shipping method you figured out.  8) If you decide to send me a frozen HRI pizza you pick what kind.  I like to be surprised.  You are a sweetheart for offering to send one to me, but don’t feel you have to do that. 

Norma
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #249 on: March 07, 2013, 10:52:11 PM »
woah! that looks pretty awesome to me.   Great job Bob!  cant wait to hear and see the next one!!


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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #250 on: March 07, 2013, 10:54:09 PM »
I'm liking the looks of that cheese blend too!  dang!

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #251 on: March 07, 2013, 11:13:47 PM »
woah! that looks pretty awesome to me.   Great job Bob!  cant wait to hear and see the next one!!
Thank you Terry...but you are much too gracious.  :angel:
I have another batter on deck and hope that this next hitter has the stuff to hit a Home Run!  >:D

Bob
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #252 on: March 08, 2013, 12:06:21 AM »
Hey Bob!! you got some nice leoparding going on too.  those are some dark spots!  looks tasty!!! and yet still flowing cheese elsewhere!  hmmmm.  i need to change somthin!!

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #253 on: March 08, 2013, 08:52:46 AM »
Thanks for posting the pictures.  Your HRI clone attempt looks very pleasing to my eyes.   ;) How did you bake that pizza?  How would describe the crust texture when eaten and what texture does a real HRI pizza have?

Norma,

I recall asking Loo the same types of questions long ago when we first started to work on an HRI clone. You can read his response at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51557.html#msg51557. I would say that his description was apt, but I would add that there is flakiness to the HRI crust. You can see that if you peel back the crust to see the insides.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #254 on: March 08, 2013, 09:33:42 AM »
Norma,

I recall asking Loo the same types of questions long ago when we first started to work on an HRI clone. You can read his response at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51557.html#msg51557. I would say that his description was apt, but I would add that there is flakiness to the HRI crust. You can see that if you peel back the crust to see the insides.

Peter


Peter,

Thank you for linking me to Loo’s post where his descriptions of the crust were.  I am interested in finding that flakiness in an HRI crust.  I don’t think I have ever tasted a pizza with flakiness in the crust. 

I might try an attempt on a HRI pizza this weekend.  Would you recommend I try my 10” cutter pan, or just bake on my pizza stone at home?

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #255 on: March 08, 2013, 10:20:57 AM »
I might try an attempt on a HRI pizza this weekend.  Would you recommend I try my 10” cutter pan, or just bake on my pizza stone at home?
Norma,

As best I can tell from my research, there are basically three versions of the HRI dough over its long history. The first version was a dough that went through a sheeter, the worker formed a rim and, after dressing, the pizza was baked in a deck oven. The next iteration is the one used in the HRI stores today where the dough is hot pressed, placed on a perforated dark anodized disk, formed with an upstanding rim, dressed, and baked in a conveyor oven. The third and final iteration is the frozen HRI pizza where the dough is hot pressed, pre-baked without a carrier in a conveyor oven, dressed, and baked a bit more, and then flash frozen. HRI claims that the dough recipe has not changed over the years despite these multiple versions. I am not entirely convinced of that but the best data we have is for the HRI frozen pizzas.

So, you have multiple choices. Since you have a cutter pan, which I assume is not perforated, you might use that but it would not be true to the methods used at HRI over the years, although I think you should still be able to get a good pizza out of it. I believe that it is also possible to use a pizza screen in lieu of a disk. As you may know, pizza operators are increasingly going from screens to disks in conveyor ovens so that would suggest that either carrier should work in a conveyor oven. Of course, in your case, you would be using a home oven.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #256 on: March 08, 2013, 11:56:01 AM »
Norma,

As best I can tell from my research, there are basically three versions of the HRI dough over its long history. The first version was a dough that went through a sheeter, the worker formed a rim and, after dressing, the pizza was baked in a deck oven. The next iteration is the one used in the HRI stores today where the dough is hot pressed, placed on a perforated dark anodized disk, formed with an upstanding rim, dressed, and baked in a conveyor oven. The third and final iteration is the frozen HRI pizza where the dough is hot pressed, pre-baked without a carrier in a conveyor oven, dressed, and baked a bit more, and then flash frozen. HRI claims that the dough recipe has not changed over the years despite these multiple versions. I am not entirely convinced of that but the best data we have is for the HRI frozen pizzas.

So, you have multiple choices. Since you have a cutter pan, which I assume is not perforated, you might use that but it would not be true to the methods used at HRI over the years, although I think you should still be able to get a good pizza out of it. I believe that it is also possible to use a pizza screen in lieu of a disk. As you may know, pizza operators are increasingly going from screens to disks in conveyor ovens so that would suggest that either carrier should work in a conveyor oven. Of course, in your case, you would be using a home oven.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me to the best of you knowledge HRI dough has 3 versions of their dough and what they are.

No, my cutter pan is not perforated, but I just brought my Lloyd’s perforated I think that is a pre-seasoned Tuff-Kote dark disk home from market.  Would that be a better option to use, and if it is would I then baked on my pizza stone?  I would guess my disk is a dark anodized disk, but I am not sure.  I recalled that pizza operators are increasing going from screens to disks in conveyor ovens.  I do have a screen at home too. 

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #257 on: March 08, 2013, 01:02:10 PM »
No, my cutter pan is not perforated, but I just brought my Lloyd’s perforated I think that is a pre-seasoned Tuff-Kote dark disk home from market.  Would that be a better option to use, and if it is would I then baked on my pizza stone?  I would guess my disk is a dark anodized disk, but I am not sure.  I recalled that pizza operators are increasing going from screens to disks in conveyor ovens.  I do have a screen at home too. 
Norma,

I can't say absolutely that a perforated cutter pan will be better than a nonperforated cutter pan since I have not tried the nonperforated cutter pan for the HRI style of pizza. I used my perforated cutter pan on the middle oven rack position of my oven. I did that because I was trying to simulate the frozen HRI pizza (that I had defrosted completely and reassembled after I finished my tests on the pizza) that is baked directly on an oven rack, not on a carrier (like a cookie sheet) or on a stone.

A nonanodized perforated pan or disk should work if the pan or disk is seasoned enough. Costco uses seasoned perforated disks in its conveyor ovens in the food courts where they make their pizzas.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #258 on: March 08, 2013, 01:17:06 PM »
Norma,

I used my non perforated dark anodized cutter pan on the rack. I think you would be fine with either your cutter pan you have or the Loyds perforated disc. If you decide to use one of these 2 then I will try my next one directly on a stone so that we have more pies to compare with.

Bob
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #259 on: March 08, 2013, 07:10:45 PM »
Norma,

I can't say absolutely that a perforated cutter pan will be better than a nonperforated cutter pan since I have not tried the nonperforated cutter pan for the HRI style of pizza. I used my perforated cutter pan on the middle oven rack position of my oven. I did that because I was trying to simulate the frozen HRI pizza (that I had defrosted completely and reassembled after I finished my tests on the pizza) that is baked directly on an oven rack, not on a carrier (like a cookie sheet) or on a stone.

A nonanodized perforated pan or disk should work if the pan or disk is seasoned enough. Costco uses seasoned perforated disks in its conveyor ovens in the food courts where they make their pizzas.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that you can’t say absolutely that a perforated cutter pan will be better than a nonperforated cutter pan since you have not tried the nonperforated cutter pan for the HRI style of pizza. 

I didn’t bring my nonanodized perforated disk home from market, but either I will either try the Lloyd’s seasoned disk or my nonperforated cutter pan. 

Norma
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