Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 110013 times)

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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #450 on: March 17, 2013, 06:55:38 PM »
bob and norma, i think this thread is great and i do want to try my hand at Norma's new dough.  I won't be able to try it for about a month though because i'm leaving this week for a remote field station in the Panamaian jungle (haha)!  Hopefully it's not too hot here in Tucson when I get back, because I don't like using the oven when i've got the A/C on.   :chef:  I know Garvey has tried Loo's earlier HRI clone, I'd be interested to hear his comments on Norma's newer formula.   :pizza:


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #451 on: March 17, 2013, 07:34:32 PM »
bob and norma, i think this thread is great and i do want to try my hand at Norma's new dough.  I won't be able to try it for about a month though because i'm leaving this week for a remote field station in the Panamaian jungle (haha)!  Hopefully it's not too hot here in Tucson when I get back, because I don't like using the oven when i've got the A/C on.   :chef:  I know Garvey has tried Loo's earlier HRI clone, I'd be interested to hear his comments on Norma's newer formula.   :pizza:
CDN,
Wow!  :o Your job sounds so interesting that it allows you such traveling. It may be that you are used to these changes....but to us it seems exciting. Especially in a damn "jungle" man.  8)
I think your weather in Tucson will still be mild enough one month from now...but who the hell cares dude, just make sure you return home safely!
You are a long standing knowledgeable member here and your posts helped me decide to join up here...for real sir...be safe in your journeys.

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #452 on: March 17, 2013, 07:39:32 PM »
bob and norma, i think this thread is great and i do want to try my hand at Norma's new dough.  I won't be able to try it for about a month though because i'm leaving this week for a remote field station in the Panamaian jungle (haha)!  Hopefully it's not too hot here in Tucson when I get back, because I don't like using the oven when i've got the A/C on.   :chef:  I know Garvey has tried Loo's earlier HRI clone, I'd be interested to hear his comments on Norma's newer formula.   :pizza:

CDNpielover,

Sounds interesting that you are going to the Panamanian jungle.  Have fun! 

What I tried so far is not really Norma’s formula.  Peter made the suggestions on what to try from all of his research and what he has learned about reverse engineering and cloning since this thread was started by Loo.   It should be Peter’s newer formula.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #453 on: March 17, 2013, 08:05:45 PM »
bob and norma, i think this thread is great and i do want to try my hand at Norma's new dough.  I won't be able to try it for about a month though because i'm leaving this week for a remote field station in the Panamaian jungle (haha)!  Hopefully it's not too hot here in Tucson when I get back, because I don't like using the oven when i've got the A/C on.   :chef:  I know Garvey has tried Loo's earlier HRI clone, I'd be interested to hear his comments on Norma's newer formula.   :pizza:
Peter did comment on Norma's formula.... but believe me....anything goes during the development of this baby over the course of the next 30 days......Bob is excited, and make no mistake...Sir Peter is always the glue in this sort of fun trials experimenting with what one can do with just a few ingredients! That guy...there just never is a befitting word to describe his awesomeness...... 8)   Such a giver, man....



Bob
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #454 on: March 17, 2013, 10:39:50 PM »
I know this doesn't win me any awards....but I'm calling BS on this whole "layers" of, and or "flakiness". ....Put up a pic and show me man.....a pic of the "original" style.....that is what we are discussing here....post it up ...

It wins you an award for being wrong.   :-D

Maybe CDNpielover has pix from his recent pie.  Mine's digesting now.  I don't make it a habit to photograph every meal.  Sorry.  8)

I've baked 50-75 HRIs per year for the last eight years or so.  FWIW, Norma, it looks like the crust on your frozen pie was way underdone, as you surmised.  The bottom should be golden brown.  In my gas oven, I go for a really long bake.  I'll even sometimes drop the temp down to 375 to go an extra five minutes to let the crust finish without scorching the top.  Lower in the oven should help, too.  Bare rack, right?

Crispy, crunchity, yeasty, flaky Home Run Inn.  It is like no other pie.

And it's gotta be sausage.  I know to said you couldn't find any, Norma, so I get that.  But what I don't get is your characterization, Bob, of it being nasty.  It is probably the best sausage available on a frozen pizza.  I know that bar is pretty low, but I'd call it pretty good.  And they load it on there.  FWIW, what they have managed to do with a par baked, frozen pizza made widely available...it's pretty damn impressive.

But there's no accounting for taste.  So to the folks who dislike it, it's cool.  I ain't no shill.  For me and my house, I have three options for pizza available in my entire 1.5M person, 14-county metro area.  Make it myself, drive across town to the only edible place in existence, or make a frozen HRI.

And whoever asked about Reggios: the local Aldi carries it from time to time, and we've had a bunch.  It is similar to HRI but a lot drier crust and overall quality just isn't as good.

I doubt any of this feedback helps anybody with anything.  Sorry.

Garvey


Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #455 on: March 17, 2013, 11:07:43 PM »
Garvey,

Yes, I did think my bottom crust was way underdone, but then the top of the pizza looked baked enough on the cheese.  I thought the bottom crust should have been golden brown from the photo referenced by Peter on Slice.  I might take my next HRI frozen pizza to my mother’s gas oven for the next bake.  I know her gas oven is a lot newer than my home oven and when her knob is set it is the right temperature.  My mother has liked all the recent attempts I have made at a HRI pizza, but she is anxious to try one of the HRI frozen pizzas.  Thanks for telling me you even sometimes drop the temperature down to 375 degrees F to go an extra five minutes to let the crust finish without scorching the top.  I could also try a lower rack position.  I did bake on the bare rack.  I wanted to ask you if you ever bake those small HRI frozen pizza like I did, or are the ones you bake the larger sizes?  Like I posted I wish I could have found the frozen HRI sausage pizza, but that wasn’t in the cards. 

What do you or anyone else think about if I try another HRI attempt in my deck oven at market.  Do you know Garvey what temperatures they used years ago in HRI deck ovens.  I think I messed up different things in my last attempt and think Peter got me straightened out what to try next.  I could make a HRI dough tomorrow morning and let it cold ferment until Tuesday.  My deck oven runs at about 538 degrees F on the bottom deck and a little lower on the top deck.

Your feedback helps me a lot.  ;D  Thanks!

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #456 on: March 18, 2013, 12:36:41 AM »
It wins you an award for being wrong.   :-D


Ok then....show me. Like you said recently to me...pic or it didn't happen. Not asking you to "make it a habit to photograph every meal"....I started in on this thread only with the intention of trying to help. I believe that I do sort of know what I am doing when it comes to Chicago and Midwest styles of pizza's. That is why I am attempting to contribute something positive...it is apparent that Norma and Peter, thankfully, are wanting to explore the possibility of creating/clone a modern day HRI pizza.

Garvey, with all due respect sir...and I mean this with utmost sincerity(you know your way around a pizza kitchen no doubt).....please take a look back at your last 5 or 6 posts on this thread. Loo Waters is an accomplished pizza maker(just as you truly are)and he is also a very sweet, helpful man. I have never seen him say anything negative about another's work without being at the ready with (what he believes) may be helpful tips/guidance.

You appear to be "the guy in the know" about HRI on the forum here considering how often you are, lucky dog, able to enjoy their pizza's and make knowledgeable observations. Please help us out here Garvey...add some more inspiration if you can and let's get this nut cracked...I enjoy working with you man. 8)

Bob
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #457 on: March 18, 2013, 12:58:45 AM »
Hey Garvey, I know I told you I was going to take photos of my frozen HRI, but of course when the time came I just wanted to eat the damn thing.   :-D  I can confirm however that there are distinct pockets/layers.  I was even able to peel them apart, and noticed that they would even go up and around the rim of the pie (as you get if parallel layers get folded up into a rim).  I almost want to take photos now, just to show Bob! 

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #458 on: March 18, 2013, 01:01:30 AM »
Hey Bob, I'm not sure if you've seen these photos, but Garvey did post some really nice shots of the layers here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242747.html#msg242747


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #459 on: March 18, 2013, 01:55:28 AM »
Hey Bob, I'm not sure if you've seen these photos, but Garvey did post some really nice shots of the layers here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242747.html#msg242747
I know he did CDN, and in your defense of him, read all of the post I made that has triggered you to put up the links....I stated " let's see picks of an original"  the type of pie we are talking/trying to clone.  The pics and the link are of a HRI "Ultra thin"...Garvey stated that if I'm not getting those results then I am baking it wrong.  I believe the HRI "ultras" bake up differently in our home ovens as compared to the 'ol HRI standby...regular crust. At any rate I think they all are a waste of time and I don't care how you devise a custom way to cook it...it is a bland pizza. And that is sad because they actually put a good amount of sauce on those frozen pie's.

Check this out CDN....and Garvey too......you guys win and I am a looser. Ya'll know more about pizza making than me. You all win OK?
Now go back through the posts and please point out one single time that I ever took an "offensive" or "negative"position.
If you are not part of the solution...you are part of the problem(as they say). I want to have fun and enjoy my time here on this great forum. Let's all be nice to each other and if one has an opposing view...great...but at least qualify it with accuracy.
That's all I have to say about all of that..and if anyone tries to get back at me about this post I will not respond.
All of us on this tread make good pizza's man...let's champion together and see how fast we can come up with an even better HRI pizza. I really think that is not an unreachable goal....nope, not at all.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #460 on: March 18, 2013, 08:07:57 AM »
I mixed another attempt at an HRI dough late last evening, trying to follow Peter’s suggestions to mix in a food processor or a stand mixer.  I used cooler tap water and first mixed with the dough hook until all the ingredients were incorporated, then mixed for 4 minutes with the dough hook.  I am going to try to make a HRI pizza in my deck oven at market tomorrow, but am not sure what is the best way to try since my deck oven is probably higher in temperature than what deck temperatures HRI used years ago.

The photos are of the dough in the mixer after it was mixed, the dough ball with poppy seeds and the dough ball this morning top and bottom.  I did drop two poppy seeds on the bottom of the plastic container.  Those are the two black things on the last photo.

Norma
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 08:09:55 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #461 on: March 18, 2013, 08:24:30 AM »
I don’t think this has been posted before, but this article said back in 1998 that frozen Home Run Inn pizzas are even exported to Bolonga, Italy says James Hurley.  James Hurley also said Home Run frozen pizzas are best if they are microwaved, not baked in an oven and that saves minutes.  http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-05-06/business/9805060282_1_export-assistance-center-kraft-foods-pizzas

But perseverance pays off. Hurley, the exporter of Home Run Inn pizzas to Italy, said he shipped to four countries in 1993. "Now it's 40 countries," he added.

I wonder what people think of Home Run Inn frozen pizzas in other countries.

Norma
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #462 on: March 18, 2013, 09:23:08 AM »
Bob--sorry, buddy.  My intent was not to offend, hence the emoticon.  Guess it didn't do the job.

And FWIW, I have never attacked Loo.  I went back and looked at my posts.  They have been constructive and not ad hominem.  Let's bury the invisible hatchet?  We agree about far more about pizza than we ever disagree. 

And for anyone reading, I will reiterate something I've written before: this is the best and most collegial forum in existence.  If I have failed to be constructive, I apologize to Loo and everyone else.  That was not my intent.


Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #463 on: March 18, 2013, 09:32:27 AM »
I wanted to ask you if you ever bake those small HRI frozen pizza like I did, or are the ones you bake the larger sizes?  Like I posted I wish I could have found the frozen HRI sausage pizza, but that wasn’t in the cards. 

They used to have a medium that actually cooked up the best.  It's been a while since I've done the small one.  If I recall correctly, it actually cooked up surprisingly well in the microwave--believe it or not!

What do you or anyone else think about if I try another HRI attempt in my deck oven at market.  Do you know Garvey what temperatures they used years ago in HRI deck ovens.  I think I messed up different things in my last attempt and think Peter got me straightened out what to try next.  I could make a HRI dough tomorrow morning and let it cold ferment until Tuesday.  My deck oven runs at about 538 degrees F on the bottom deck and a little lower on the top deck.

Wow, I really have no idea.  Since they have use conveyor belt ovens, I believe that changes things.  I'd imagine that they cook it slower than 538, though, but that is purely a guess based on the fact that it is a "thick-thin" style.

Cheers,
Garvey

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #464 on: March 18, 2013, 10:01:29 AM »
They used to have a medium that actually cooked up the best.  It's been a while since I've done the small one.  If I recall correctly, it actually cooked up surprisingly well in the microwave--believe it or not!

Garvey,

Thanks for telling me that if you recall correctly that the small HRI frozen pizza baked up surprisingly well in the microwave.  I have to look on one other small boxes to see what kind of instructions HRI has for microwaving their frozen pizzas.


Wow, I really have no idea.  Since they have use conveyor belt ovens, I believe that changes things.  I'd imagine that they cook it slower than 538, though, but that is purely a guess based on the fact that it is a "thick-thin" style.

Cheers,
Garvey

Thanks also for telling me you would imagine HRI bake temperatures were lower than mine when baking their pizzas years ago. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #465 on: March 18, 2013, 09:25:06 PM »
Norma,

To bake an HRI clone pizza at market using your deck oven with its high temperature, you might put a screen or two or its equivalent (maybe an upside down pan) under your perforated disk or cutter pan to keep the pizza from baking too fast.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 09:27:42 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #466 on: March 18, 2013, 10:14:51 PM »
Norma,

To bake an HRI clone pizza at market using your deck oven with its high temperature, you might put a screen or two or its equivalent (maybe an upside down pan) under your perforated disk or cutter pan to keep the pizza from baking too fast.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for suggesting a screen or two, or an upside down pan under the perforated disk to keep the pizza from baking too fast.  I have plenty of screens and pans at market. 

I want to ask you another question.  Do I still do a pre-bake of the crust, or do you know if HRI years ago just baked their pizzas on the deck?  I had thought about using screens under the perforated disk, but really didn’t know if I should  proceed with a pre-bake of the crust or not. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #467 on: March 18, 2013, 10:31:16 PM »
I want to ask you another question.  Do I still do a pre-bake of the crust, or do you know if HRI years ago just baked their pizzas on the deck?  I had thought about using screens under the perforated disk, but really didn’t know if I should  proceed with a pre-bake of the crust or not. 
Norma,

I don't recall reading how the pizzas were baked in the early deck ovens at HRI but I suspect a pre-bake was not used. Also, since one of the YouTube videos that was referenced earlier in this thread showed a skin on a peel, it's possible that the pizza was fully dressed on the peel and baked directly on the stone surface of the deck oven.  I think I would be inclined to pre-bake the docked skin since one of the objectives is to try to replicate the flaky characteristic of an HRI pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #468 on: March 18, 2013, 10:48:25 PM »
Norma,

I think I would be inclined to pre-bake the docked skin since one of the objectives is to try to replicate the flaky characteristic of an HRI pizza.

Peter

Peter,

I will pre-bake the docked skin from your suggestion.  I know one of the objectives is to try to replicate the flaky characteristic of an HRI pizza. 

I can always try the whole pizza baked at once at some other point in time in my deck oven.  I know I still would have to use disks and screens though when I try the whole bake at once because my oven temperatures are too hot.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #469 on: March 18, 2013, 10:54:28 PM »
Norma,

You can get the flavor of how the early HRI pizzas were made when they used deck ovens from BTB's post at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51572.html#msg51572 . See also his follow-up post at Reply 10.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #470 on: March 18, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »
Norma,

You can get the flavor of how the early HRI pizzas were made when they used deck ovens from BTB's post at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51572.html#msg51572 . See also his follow-up post at Reply 10.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing the link to Reply 4 and telling me to also read BTB‘s follow-up post at Reply 10.  BTB’s descriptions of how the early HRI pizzas were made were very good.  I see BTB said no dough dockers were used then, so that alone is good information. 

Norma
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #471 on: March 18, 2013, 11:58:16 PM »
Bob where you at?   I miss you already!  You're always so up and fun!  I like it much more when the discussion seems to be about learning and being helpful and not about who's right and who's wrong. 


Garvey, you have so much to offer!   You've been so helpful to so many!  and you make killer pizzas!  but I have to admit, I may have misinterpreted the tones of some of your responses as well.  I think even Petezza did at one point.   so I apologize as well.  And thanks for reaching out to bob and the group in general!  I really love the positive and kind nature of this site! The people that make it here really make it great!  -ter
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #472 on: March 19, 2013, 07:39:56 AM »
 ;D
Thanks for referencing the link to Reply 4 and telling me to also read BTB‘s follow-up post at Reply 10.  BTB’s descriptions of how the early HRI pizzas were made were very good.  I see BTB said no dough dockers were used then, so that alone is good information. 
Norma,

I suspect that dough dockers had not yet been invented in the 1940s, but came later with the creation and growth of the big pizza chains and the use of conveyor ovens. It is possible, however, that bubble poppers were used with deck ovens.

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #473 on: March 19, 2013, 07:52:17 AM »
It is possible, however, that bubble poppers were used with deck ovens.

This is interesting, Peter, because it's not something we've talked a lot about on the Chicago Style forum.  Don't mean to take the discussion too far afield or O/T, but I'm wondering how many folks here need to pop bubbles on their Chicago Thin? 

My buddy Dave, who worked at Pizza Factory, had that as one of this duties: to eyeball the pizzas early-/mid-bake and pop any bubbles.  I've found that with my 72-hr cold ferment, my doughs aren't that active once they hit the oven. The do bubble sometimes, but it's very rare.  And if I happen to use the dough at a younger stage, 24- or 48-hrs, then I definitely have to do a bubble check.  (Edit: I've also noticed that very lightly topped pizzas tend to bubble more often--e.g., when I make a "kids' pizza" with less sauce, cheese only.  Maybe the extra ballast of sauce and toppings on a normal pie has a regulating effect.)

Of course, you can buy a long-handled bubble popper if you have a commercial operation, but I found that a two-pronged carving fork suits me fine.

Cheers,
Garvey

[P.S.  Thanks for the feedback, Mr. Mojo.  Need to tame my tongue.  Peace.]
   
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 07:54:49 AM by Garvey »

Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #474 on: March 19, 2013, 10:23:46 AM »
the only time I need to bubble pop,  is when I laminate and use the sheeter.   Same dough same oven no lamination no bubbles to speak of.  Garvey I swear those pics of your hri with the layers looks like when I laminate!  Good stuff gang! 
"My Doctor says I swallow a lot of aggression.  Along with a lot of pizzas!!"