Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 97567 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #460 on: March 18, 2013, 08:07:57 AM »
I mixed another attempt at an HRI dough late last evening, trying to follow Peter’s suggestions to mix in a food processor or a stand mixer.  I used cooler tap water and first mixed with the dough hook until all the ingredients were incorporated, then mixed for 4 minutes with the dough hook.  I am going to try to make a HRI pizza in my deck oven at market tomorrow, but am not sure what is the best way to try since my deck oven is probably higher in temperature than what deck temperatures HRI used years ago.

The photos are of the dough in the mixer after it was mixed, the dough ball with poppy seeds and the dough ball this morning top and bottom.  I did drop two poppy seeds on the bottom of the plastic container.  Those are the two black things on the last photo.

Norma
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 08:09:55 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #461 on: March 18, 2013, 08:24:30 AM »
I don’t think this has been posted before, but this article said back in 1998 that frozen Home Run Inn pizzas are even exported to Bolonga, Italy says James Hurley.  James Hurley also said Home Run frozen pizzas are best if they are microwaved, not baked in an oven and that saves minutes.  http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-05-06/business/9805060282_1_export-assistance-center-kraft-foods-pizzas

But perseverance pays off. Hurley, the exporter of Home Run Inn pizzas to Italy, said he shipped to four countries in 1993. "Now it's 40 countries," he added.

I wonder what people think of Home Run Inn frozen pizzas in other countries.

Norma
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #462 on: March 18, 2013, 09:23:08 AM »
Bob--sorry, buddy.  My intent was not to offend, hence the emoticon.  Guess it didn't do the job.

And FWIW, I have never attacked Loo.  I went back and looked at my posts.  They have been constructive and not ad hominem.  Let's bury the invisible hatchet?  We agree about far more about pizza than we ever disagree. 

And for anyone reading, I will reiterate something I've written before: this is the best and most collegial forum in existence.  If I have failed to be constructive, I apologize to Loo and everyone else.  That was not my intent.


Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #463 on: March 18, 2013, 09:32:27 AM »
I wanted to ask you if you ever bake those small HRI frozen pizza like I did, or are the ones you bake the larger sizes?  Like I posted I wish I could have found the frozen HRI sausage pizza, but that wasn’t in the cards. 

They used to have a medium that actually cooked up the best.  It's been a while since I've done the small one.  If I recall correctly, it actually cooked up surprisingly well in the microwave--believe it or not!

What do you or anyone else think about if I try another HRI attempt in my deck oven at market.  Do you know Garvey what temperatures they used years ago in HRI deck ovens.  I think I messed up different things in my last attempt and think Peter got me straightened out what to try next.  I could make a HRI dough tomorrow morning and let it cold ferment until Tuesday.  My deck oven runs at about 538 degrees F on the bottom deck and a little lower on the top deck.

Wow, I really have no idea.  Since they have use conveyor belt ovens, I believe that changes things.  I'd imagine that they cook it slower than 538, though, but that is purely a guess based on the fact that it is a "thick-thin" style.

Cheers,
Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #464 on: March 18, 2013, 10:01:29 AM »
They used to have a medium that actually cooked up the best.  It's been a while since I've done the small one.  If I recall correctly, it actually cooked up surprisingly well in the microwave--believe it or not!

Garvey,

Thanks for telling me that if you recall correctly that the small HRI frozen pizza baked up surprisingly well in the microwave.  I have to look on one other small boxes to see what kind of instructions HRI has for microwaving their frozen pizzas.


Wow, I really have no idea.  Since they have use conveyor belt ovens, I believe that changes things.  I'd imagine that they cook it slower than 538, though, but that is purely a guess based on the fact that it is a "thick-thin" style.

Cheers,
Garvey

Thanks also for telling me you would imagine HRI bake temperatures were lower than mine when baking their pizzas years ago. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #465 on: March 18, 2013, 09:25:06 PM »
Norma,

To bake an HRI clone pizza at market using your deck oven with its high temperature, you might put a screen or two or its equivalent (maybe an upside down pan) under your perforated disk or cutter pan to keep the pizza from baking too fast.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 09:27:42 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #466 on: March 18, 2013, 10:14:51 PM »
Norma,

To bake an HRI clone pizza at market using your deck oven with its high temperature, you might put a screen or two or its equivalent (maybe an upside down pan) under your perforated disk or cutter pan to keep the pizza from baking too fast.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for suggesting a screen or two, or an upside down pan under the perforated disk to keep the pizza from baking too fast.  I have plenty of screens and pans at market. 

I want to ask you another question.  Do I still do a pre-bake of the crust, or do you know if HRI years ago just baked their pizzas on the deck?  I had thought about using screens under the perforated disk, but really didn’t know if I should  proceed with a pre-bake of the crust or not. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #467 on: March 18, 2013, 10:31:16 PM »
I want to ask you another question.  Do I still do a pre-bake of the crust, or do you know if HRI years ago just baked their pizzas on the deck?  I had thought about using screens under the perforated disk, but really didn’t know if I should  proceed with a pre-bake of the crust or not. 
Norma,

I don't recall reading how the pizzas were baked in the early deck ovens at HRI but I suspect a pre-bake was not used. Also, since one of the YouTube videos that was referenced earlier in this thread showed a skin on a peel, it's possible that the pizza was fully dressed on the peel and baked directly on the stone surface of the deck oven.  I think I would be inclined to pre-bake the docked skin since one of the objectives is to try to replicate the flaky characteristic of an HRI pizza.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #468 on: March 18, 2013, 10:48:25 PM »
Norma,

I think I would be inclined to pre-bake the docked skin since one of the objectives is to try to replicate the flaky characteristic of an HRI pizza.

Peter

Peter,

I will pre-bake the docked skin from your suggestion.  I know one of the objectives is to try to replicate the flaky characteristic of an HRI pizza. 

I can always try the whole pizza baked at once at some other point in time in my deck oven.  I know I still would have to use disks and screens though when I try the whole bake at once because my oven temperatures are too hot.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #469 on: March 18, 2013, 10:54:28 PM »
Norma,

You can get the flavor of how the early HRI pizzas were made when they used deck ovens from BTB's post at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51572.html#msg51572 . See also his follow-up post at Reply 10.

Peter


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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #470 on: March 18, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »
Norma,

You can get the flavor of how the early HRI pizzas were made when they used deck ovens from BTB's post at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6009.msg51572.html#msg51572 . See also his follow-up post at Reply 10.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing the link to Reply 4 and telling me to also read BTB‘s follow-up post at Reply 10.  BTB’s descriptions of how the early HRI pizzas were made were very good.  I see BTB said no dough dockers were used then, so that alone is good information. 

Norma
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #471 on: March 18, 2013, 11:58:16 PM »
Bob where you at?   I miss you already!  You're always so up and fun!  I like it much more when the discussion seems to be about learning and being helpful and not about who's right and who's wrong. 


Garvey, you have so much to offer!   You've been so helpful to so many!  and you make killer pizzas!  but I have to admit, I may have misinterpreted the tones of some of your responses as well.  I think even Petezza did at one point.   so I apologize as well.  And thanks for reaching out to bob and the group in general!  I really love the positive and kind nature of this site! The people that make it here really make it great!  -ter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #472 on: March 19, 2013, 07:39:56 AM »
 ;D
Thanks for referencing the link to Reply 4 and telling me to also read BTB‘s follow-up post at Reply 10.  BTB’s descriptions of how the early HRI pizzas were made were very good.  I see BTB said no dough dockers were used then, so that alone is good information. 
Norma,

I suspect that dough dockers had not yet been invented in the 1940s, but came later with the creation and growth of the big pizza chains and the use of conveyor ovens. It is possible, however, that bubble poppers were used with deck ovens.

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #473 on: March 19, 2013, 07:52:17 AM »
It is possible, however, that bubble poppers were used with deck ovens.

This is interesting, Peter, because it's not something we've talked a lot about on the Chicago Style forum.  Don't mean to take the discussion too far afield or O/T, but I'm wondering how many folks here need to pop bubbles on their Chicago Thin? 

My buddy Dave, who worked at Pizza Factory, had that as one of this duties: to eyeball the pizzas early-/mid-bake and pop any bubbles.  I've found that with my 72-hr cold ferment, my doughs aren't that active once they hit the oven. The do bubble sometimes, but it's very rare.  And if I happen to use the dough at a younger stage, 24- or 48-hrs, then I definitely have to do a bubble check.  (Edit: I've also noticed that very lightly topped pizzas tend to bubble more often--e.g., when I make a "kids' pizza" with less sauce, cheese only.  Maybe the extra ballast of sauce and toppings on a normal pie has a regulating effect.)

Of course, you can buy a long-handled bubble popper if you have a commercial operation, but I found that a two-pronged carving fork suits me fine.

Cheers,
Garvey

[P.S.  Thanks for the feedback, Mr. Mojo.  Need to tame my tongue.  Peace.]
   
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 07:54:49 AM by Garvey »

Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #474 on: March 19, 2013, 10:23:46 AM »
the only time I need to bubble pop,  is when I laminate and use the sheeter.   Same dough same oven no lamination no bubbles to speak of.  Garvey I swear those pics of your hri with the layers looks like when I laminate!  Good stuff gang! 

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #475 on: March 19, 2013, 10:36:03 AM »
Dude, I forgot you have a sheeter at home!  So jealous.

Had a chance to buy a floor-standing model for $300 and foolishly passed.  I truly do not have the space for it anywhere, not even store it temporarily.  But in hindsight, I should have bought it and tried to trade someone for a tabletop sheeter.

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #476 on: March 19, 2013, 10:29:38 PM »
Thats a good idea Garvey!  i bet you could trade!  keep your eyes peeled!  you would no doubt get a lot of use out of it! as of late ive been looking for a hobart slicer, so i can make real chicago italian beef.  but man those are spendy!  the sheeter i use 1-2 times a week, but the slicer would probably only be once in a while....so i need to find a real steal to justify it!

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #477 on: March 20, 2013, 08:22:59 AM »




The HRI dough ball wasn’t warmed-up very long.  It was just put into my Hatco Unit until the chill was taken off of the dough ball.  The dough ball when rolling into a skin was cooler in the middle of the dough.  The skin wanted to become a little extensible when transferring it to the disk after docking the skin. After trying to flute the rim it wanted to flop over in some places, so the skin on the disk was put back into the pizza prep fridge to firm up the rim some. I also saw the dough want to slump some in the holes of the disk near the edges.  The rim was firmer after it cooled more, but when doing the pre-bake it still wanted to slump a little in some places.  That was tried to be fixed by using tongs to straighten up the fluted rim in a couple of places while the skin was pre-baking.  I used 2 screens and a perforated aluminum disk besides the dark disk to try the pre-bake.  I think I used too many screens because the rim of the crust was browning quicker than the bottom. 

The sauce, cheese and pepperoni were then applied after the pre-bake skin was taken out of the oven and the pizza just went back into the oven on the one dark disk after the ingredients were applied.  There still wasn’t much of any bottom crust browning when the toppings looked like they were almost finished baking, so the pizza was taken off of the disk and baked right on the deck.

The pizza was very tasty, and the rim crust was flaky, but the bottom crust didn’t have the layers it should have had.  Steve also liked this attempted HRI pizza when he doesn’t normally like thin crust pizzas.  The bottom crust was easy to eat and was somewhat flaky in texture as was the rim crust.

I was also somewhat surprised that the amount of IDY used didn’t make the dough ferment more.

I wonder how to really mix this high amount of corn oil with the water and flour and sure don’t know if I am trying it right.  In this article by Tom Lehmann http://www.pizzatoday.com/magazine/2013-march-dough-doctor?A=SearchResult&SearchID=3880899&ObjectID=6164617&ObjectType=35#.UUmTJRzqlp4 Tom in the question about “weather influencing the amount of water added to the dough“, Tom says that if the mixer is stopped that might affect some of the flour absorbing the oil..  That portion of the flour will not create gluten as the dough is mixed, thus creating a dough that may appear to be softer.  Tom also says the best way to eliminate that problem is to use what he refers to as a delayed oil addition mixing method.  That allows the flour to fully hydrate before the oil is added.  I wonder if that also applies when a lot of corn oil is in a dough like HRI.

Tom Lehmann also mentions about the same thing about when to add oil in this article near the end of the article, but the oil amount is not nearly as high as what I have been adding to the water.  http://www.pizzatoday.com/magazine/2009-november-dough-doctor?A=SearchResult&SearchID=3880929&ObjectID=6242961&ObjectType=35#.UUmWzRzqlp4

Tom also discusses something along similar lines at http://www.pizzatoday.com/magazine/2011-june-dough-doctor#.UUmZJBzqlp4  which might include not have a combined water and oil amount of more than 56 to 60 percent, but I don‘t know if that apples to a HRI dough.  I know my water/oil ratio is higher than 56 to 60 percent.   

I am wondering if a delayed oil addition (maybe in trying to drizzle the corn in after first mixing the other ingredients) might be better for a HRI dough.  I am having some confusion as what to try.  I think my oil/water ratio might be too high, or either I might not be mixing right, or enough. 

Since I never really ate a fresh HRI pizza I don’t know really what is going on in the taste, looks and texture of my HRI crust.

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #478 on: March 20, 2013, 08:37:13 AM »
Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #479 on: March 20, 2013, 08:40:17 AM »
Norma
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