Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 96882 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #720 on: April 18, 2013, 11:01:49 AM »
I have one of those small frozen HRI thin crust pizzas left to bake.  Is there anything you want me to note when trying to bake that pizza?  I want to see if the layers will appear on that crust in the bake.
Norma,

I think I would just make the pizza and enjoy it. Even though I have never had a real HRI pizzeria pizza, I have come to view the frozen HRI pizzas and the HRI pizzeria pizzas as two different products. I know that there are quite a few people who say that the frozen HRI pizzas are just like the ones sold in the HRI pizzerias, and HRI itself likes to perpetuate this myth (in my opinion) at Facebook (after all, the real money is in the frozen pizzas), but I have also seen reviews where the reviewers said that the two products were not the same. To take a product that was created in 1947 and intended for a deck oven and pretend that you can make thousands of credible clone pizza per hour in frozen pizza factories without anyone noticing the difference strains credulity in my opinion. Once you get into massive automation, and no matter how advanced and sophisticated and automated the equipment, the pizza coming off of the assembly line will not be as good as the one that Nick Perrino made in 1947. And perhaps not as good as those that followed in the HRI pizzerias over the ensuing years.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 11:04:21 AM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #721 on: April 18, 2013, 11:28:30 AM »
Norma,

I think I would just make the pizza and enjoy it. Even though I have never had a real HRI pizzeria pizza, I have come to view the frozen HRI pizzas and the HRI pizzeria pizzas as two different products. I know that there are quite a few people who say that the frozen HRI pizzas are just like the ones sold in the HRI pizzerias, and HRI itself likes to perpetuate this myth (in my opinion) at Facebook (after all, the real money is in the frozen pizzas), but I have also seen reviews where the reviewers said that the two products were not the same. To take a product that was created in 1947 and intended for a deck oven and pretend that you can make thousands of credible clone pizza per hour in frozen pizza factories without anyone noticing the difference strains credulity in my opinion. Once you get into massive automation, and no matter how advanced and sophisticated and automated the equipment, the pizza coming off of the assembly line will not be as good as the one that Nick Perrino made in 1947. And perhaps not as good as those that followed in the HRI pizzerias over the ensuing years.

Peter

Peter,

I agree with everything you posted.  After tasting a couple of frozen HRI pizzas I donít believe there is any way a frozen HRI pizza could taste the same as a real HRI pizza of years ago by Nick Perrino, or even ones that HRI pizzerias make now.

Norma
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #722 on: April 18, 2013, 03:02:02 PM »
While all of this is true, the flaky layers phenomenon exists in both products, restaurant and frozen.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #723 on: April 18, 2013, 03:19:09 PM »
While all of this is true, the flaky layers phenomenon exists in both products, restaurant and frozen.
Garvey,

Did the flaky layers extend across the entire pizza crust of the HRI pizzeria pizzas or just at the perimeter for the most part, including the rim?

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #724 on: April 18, 2013, 06:18:00 PM »
The whole thing.  It's like eating dense puff pastry, almost.  Hard to describe.


Cheers,
Garvey

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #725 on: April 18, 2013, 07:39:06 PM »
The whole thing.  It's like eating dense puff pastry, almost.  Hard to describe.


Cheers,
Garvey


Garvey,

I find it interesting that you posted the flaky layers are on the entire pizza crust of HRI pizzas.  I know I havenít achieved anything like that in any of my attempts and I sure donít know how to go about trying something to get those results.

Norma
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #726 on: April 18, 2013, 07:43:19 PM »
I think I understand what Garvey means...  I think I mentioned this before, but to me it's almost like eating layers of phyllo pastry.  I mean, it's not *really* like that (at all), but I can't really think of any other way to describe it.  It's like a little oily cluster of very densely-packed layers.  but it's crunchy and the layers flake apart when you eat it.   :chef:

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #727 on: April 18, 2013, 08:28:29 PM »
I think I understand what Garvey means...  I think I mentioned this before, but to me it's almost like eating layers of phyllo pastry.  I mean, it's not *really* like that (at all), but I can't really think of any other way to describe it.  It's like a little oily cluster of very densely-packed layers.  but it's crunchy and the layers flake apart when you eat it.   :chef:

CDNpielover,

Thanks for posting what you think Garvey means.  I was going to start another dough attempt tonight, but don't know of any way to achieve a crust like that. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #728 on: April 18, 2013, 08:54:34 PM »
Norma,

Here is an example of an HRI pizzeria pizza with a rim that is not a thin, upstanding one. I simply view it as evidence of how pizzas can vary in any pizzeria.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:56:33 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #729 on: April 18, 2013, 09:11:44 PM »
And here is another example of the method I described earlier to form the upstanding fluted rim. It is as though the skin is pressed out to a larger than final size and then gathered at the outer edge and pinched together to form the rim so that it has a base so to speak. If more dough is taken up by the rim, that would result in a thinner center. I'm speculating here but that could translate into a crispier crust. The photo below, as well as the last one, came from the HRI Facebook page.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 09:17:14 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #730 on: April 18, 2013, 10:01:21 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for those photos and explaining you think the one photo is evidence that pizzas can vary at HRI.  I see what you mean by it looks like the skin is pressed out to a larger than final size and then gathered at the outer edge and pinched together to form the rim in the second photo.  I know you are speculating, but understand how that method might translate into a crisper crust. 

Maybe, I still might make another test dough tonight.  Do you still recommend the hydration you gave Jay to try at Reply 678 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg248622.html#msg248622

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #731 on: April 19, 2013, 06:11:23 AM »
Norma,

I think the hydration value set forth in Reply 678 is as good as any to try at this point should you decide to proceed with another attempt.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #732 on: April 19, 2013, 06:34:34 AM »
Norma,

I think the hydration value set forth in Reply 678 is as good as any to try at this point should you decide to proceed with another attempt.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your advice of what to try.  I will make another dough this morning for an attempted pizza on Sunday.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #733 on: April 19, 2013, 07:58:54 AM »
Thanks for your advice of what to try.  I will make another dough this morning for an attempted pizza on Sunday.
Norma,

If this gets to you in time, you might try adding the oil to the flour before adding the rest of the ingredients, including the water. That should impede the hydration of the flour and make for a drier dough ball.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #734 on: April 19, 2013, 08:23:13 AM »
Norma,

If this gets to you in time, you might try adding the oil to the flour before adding the rest of the ingredients, including the water. That should impede the hydration of the flour and make for a drier dough ball.

Peter

Peter,

I already mixed the dough, but can try adding the oil to the flour before adding the rest ingredients the next time, or another member can try your method first.  I can understand your method should impede the hydration of the flour and make for a drier dough ball.

This is what I did. I mixed another attempt at an HRI clone dough.  The mixing sequence was water, then flour mixed with the flat beater.  Next the dough hook was used to mix and then the corn oil was drizzled in and mixed some more before the salt and ADY were added.  The dough then was mixed for 6 more minutes.  The final dough temperature was 76.2 degrees F.  The dough was scaled back to 425 grams and then balled and poppy seeds were place on the oiled dough ball.  The dough ball went into the fridge at 7:58 AM.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #735 on: April 19, 2013, 11:56:53 AM »
Peter,

I was looking on HRI Pizzaís facebook page again, and donít think I looked at this photo before.  It shows what looks like cheese, sausage and pepperoni pizza going into the conveyor oven.  It looks to me like there is not as much cheese applied as I have been doing and it looks like a lot more pepperoni is applied.  Would that change the bake of our attempts if less LMPS is applied?  Do you think HRI pizzerias might apply different amounts of mozzarella than they do to their frozen pizzas?

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #736 on: April 19, 2013, 12:53:22 PM »
I was looking on HRI Pizzaís facebook page again, and donít think I looked at this photo before.  It shows what looks like cheese, sausage and pepperoni pizza going into the conveyor oven.  It looks to me like there is not as much cheese applied as I have been doing and it looks like a lot more pepperoni is applied.  Would that change the bake of our attempts if less LMPS is applied?  Do you think HRI pizzerias might apply different amounts of mozzarella than they do to their frozen pizzas?
Norma,

You did see the photo before. I showed the same photo at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg235707.html#msg235707, and later cross referenced Reply 195 at Reply 348 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242823.html#msg242823. You acknowledged the photo Reply 349.

With respect to the amounts of pepperoni used, it is hard to say without knowing the size of the pizza shown in the photo. HRI makes pizzas in its pizzerias in the 12", 14" and 16" sizes (http://www.homeruninnpizza.com/website/documents/menus/HRI%20TakeOutMenu_2012_CHIlowres.pdf). Since it appears that HRI builds its pizzeria pizzas on a digital scale, it is possible that they use pepperoni slices in an amount that is proportional to the pizza size. So, for example, if a 12" pizza has 14 slices (as used, for example, on a 12" frozen HRI pepperoni pizza), the number of pepperoni slices on a 14" pizza would be 14 x (49/36) = 19 pepperoni slices, and for the 16" size, it would be 14 x (64/36) = 25 pepperoni slices. If my assumptions are correct, the pizza in the photo would be 16". The pepperoni pizza shown in the HRI menu referenced above looks like it might be a 14" pizza based on the number of pepperoni slices. The "natural" pepperoni that HRI uses is more expensive than the common variety, so I would imagine that they don't go wild in the amounts of pepperoni slices that they put on their pizzas.

As for the cheese, one of the things that I discovered when I dismantled the HRI frozen pizzas and weighed several of the parts of the pizzas, I discovered that the amounts of cheese can vary on the pizzas, particularly those that have a lot of toppings. I discussed this facet of my experiments at Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242492/topicseen.html#msg242492. As a general principle, and all else being equal, a pizza with a lot of stuff on it will bake differently than one with only a few things on it.

The above notwithstanding, I do not know if the HRI pizzeria pizzas use the same amounts of cheese and toppings as for the frozen HRI pizzas with the same toppings. Maybe one of our members with total recall can answer that question for us.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #737 on: April 19, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »
Norma,

You did see the photo before. I showed the same photo at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg235707.html#msg235707, and later cross referenced Reply 195 at Reply 348 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242823.html#msg242823. You acknowledged the photo Reply 349.

With respect to the amounts of pepperoni used, it is hard to say without knowing the size of the pizza shown in the photo. HRI makes pizzas in its pizzerias in the 12", 14" and 16" sizes (http://www.homeruninnpizza.com/website/documents/menus/HRI%20TakeOutMenu_2012_CHIlowres.pdf). Since it appears that HRI builds its pizzeria pizzas on a digital scale, it is possible that they use pepperoni slices in an amount that is proportional to the pizza size. So, for example, if a 12" pizza has 14 slices (as used, for example, on a 12" frozen HRI pepperoni pizza), the number of pepperoni slices on a 14" pizza would be 14 x (49/36) = 19 pepperoni slices, and for the 16" size, it would be 14 x (64/36) = 25 pepperoni slices. If my assumptions are correct, the pizza in the photo would be 16". The pepperoni pizza shown in the HRI menu referenced above looks like it might be a 14" pizza based on the number of pepperoni slices. The "natural" pepperoni that HRI uses is more expensive than the common variety, so I would imagine that they don't go wild in the amounts of pepperoni slices that they put on their pizzas.

As for the cheese, one of the things that I discovered when I dismantled the HRI frozen pizzas and weighed several of the parts of the pizzas, I discovered that the amounts of cheese can vary on the pizzas, particularly those that have a lot of toppings. I discussed this facet of my experiments at Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242492/topicseen.html#msg242492. As a general principle, and all else being equal, a pizza with a lot of stuff on it will bake differently than one with only a few things on it.

The above notwithstanding, I do not know if the HRI pizzeria pizzas use the same amounts of cheese and toppings as for the frozen HRI pizzas with the same toppings. Maybe one of our members with total recall can answer that question for us.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that I did see that photo before.  :-[ I think I need some of those memory pills.  I do recall now.

I can understand the amount of pepperoni used would depend on what size pizza was shown in that photo.  I didnít think about a larger pizza when I looked at that photo.  Since it appears HRI builds its pizzeria pizzas on a scale, it seems like HRI would be pretty consistent in their amounts of toppings.  Maybe it just appeared to me there was less cheese since more toppings were on that pizza.

Thanks for referencing Reply 307 again. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #738 on: April 19, 2013, 08:16:09 PM »
I donít know what to make of this attempted HRI clone dough ball, but after 12 hrs. it has not showed signs of any signs of fermentation from using the poppy seed trick.  The only different method I used this time, was to mix the salt 2 minutes into the final mix with the dough hook and then added the ADY last and mixed the rest of the way.  The only other differences are my fridge is now colder and also the room temperature where I was mixing the dough this morning was cooler.  The cooler room temperature wouldnít make much of any difference in my opinion, because the final dough ball temperature was okay.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #739 on: April 19, 2013, 08:23:16 PM »
Well, this is a totally different way of dough making for you and it looks like it is doing what was hoped for, no? By adding a non bloomed ady into your mix at the final stage of mixing....I too am curious just how long it will take to see some action. This is interesting Norma.
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