Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 110173 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #725 on: April 18, 2013, 07:39:06 PM »
The whole thing.  It's like eating dense puff pastry, almost.  Hard to describe.


Cheers,
Garvey


Garvey,

I find it interesting that you posted the flaky layers are on the entire pizza crust of HRI pizzas.  I know I havenít achieved anything like that in any of my attempts and I sure donít know how to go about trying something to get those results.

Norma
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #726 on: April 18, 2013, 07:43:19 PM »
I think I understand what Garvey means...  I think I mentioned this before, but to me it's almost like eating layers of phyllo pastry.  I mean, it's not *really* like that (at all), but I can't really think of any other way to describe it.  It's like a little oily cluster of very densely-packed layers.  but it's crunchy and the layers flake apart when you eat it.   :chef:

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #727 on: April 18, 2013, 08:28:29 PM »
I think I understand what Garvey means...  I think I mentioned this before, but to me it's almost like eating layers of phyllo pastry.  I mean, it's not *really* like that (at all), but I can't really think of any other way to describe it.  It's like a little oily cluster of very densely-packed layers.  but it's crunchy and the layers flake apart when you eat it.   :chef:

CDNpielover,

Thanks for posting what you think Garvey means.  I was going to start another dough attempt tonight, but don't know of any way to achieve a crust like that. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #728 on: April 18, 2013, 08:54:34 PM »
Norma,

Here is an example of an HRI pizzeria pizza with a rim that is not a thin, upstanding one. I simply view it as evidence of how pizzas can vary in any pizzeria.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:56:33 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #729 on: April 18, 2013, 09:11:44 PM »
And here is another example of the method I described earlier to form the upstanding fluted rim. It is as though the skin is pressed out to a larger than final size and then gathered at the outer edge and pinched together to form the rim so that it has a base so to speak. If more dough is taken up by the rim, that would result in a thinner center. I'm speculating here but that could translate into a crispier crust. The photo below, as well as the last one, came from the HRI Facebook page.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 09:17:14 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #730 on: April 18, 2013, 10:01:21 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for those photos and explaining you think the one photo is evidence that pizzas can vary at HRI.  I see what you mean by it looks like the skin is pressed out to a larger than final size and then gathered at the outer edge and pinched together to form the rim in the second photo.  I know you are speculating, but understand how that method might translate into a crisper crust. 

Maybe, I still might make another test dough tonight.  Do you still recommend the hydration you gave Jay to try at Reply 678 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg248622.html#msg248622

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #731 on: April 19, 2013, 06:11:23 AM »
Norma,

I think the hydration value set forth in Reply 678 is as good as any to try at this point should you decide to proceed with another attempt.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #732 on: April 19, 2013, 06:34:34 AM »
Norma,

I think the hydration value set forth in Reply 678 is as good as any to try at this point should you decide to proceed with another attempt.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your advice of what to try.  I will make another dough this morning for an attempted pizza on Sunday.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #733 on: April 19, 2013, 07:58:54 AM »
Thanks for your advice of what to try.  I will make another dough this morning for an attempted pizza on Sunday.
Norma,

If this gets to you in time, you might try adding the oil to the flour before adding the rest of the ingredients, including the water. That should impede the hydration of the flour and make for a drier dough ball.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #734 on: April 19, 2013, 08:23:13 AM »
Norma,

If this gets to you in time, you might try adding the oil to the flour before adding the rest of the ingredients, including the water. That should impede the hydration of the flour and make for a drier dough ball.

Peter

Peter,

I already mixed the dough, but can try adding the oil to the flour before adding the rest ingredients the next time, or another member can try your method first.  I can understand your method should impede the hydration of the flour and make for a drier dough ball.

This is what I did. I mixed another attempt at an HRI clone dough.  The mixing sequence was water, then flour mixed with the flat beater.  Next the dough hook was used to mix and then the corn oil was drizzled in and mixed some more before the salt and ADY were added.  The dough then was mixed for 6 more minutes.  The final dough temperature was 76.2 degrees F.  The dough was scaled back to 425 grams and then balled and poppy seeds were place on the oiled dough ball.  The dough ball went into the fridge at 7:58 AM.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #735 on: April 19, 2013, 11:56:53 AM »
Peter,

I was looking on HRI Pizzaís facebook page again, and donít think I looked at this photo before.  It shows what looks like cheese, sausage and pepperoni pizza going into the conveyor oven.  It looks to me like there is not as much cheese applied as I have been doing and it looks like a lot more pepperoni is applied.  Would that change the bake of our attempts if less LMPS is applied?  Do you think HRI pizzerias might apply different amounts of mozzarella than they do to their frozen pizzas?

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #736 on: April 19, 2013, 12:53:22 PM »
I was looking on HRI Pizzaís facebook page again, and donít think I looked at this photo before.  It shows what looks like cheese, sausage and pepperoni pizza going into the conveyor oven.  It looks to me like there is not as much cheese applied as I have been doing and it looks like a lot more pepperoni is applied.  Would that change the bake of our attempts if less LMPS is applied?  Do you think HRI pizzerias might apply different amounts of mozzarella than they do to their frozen pizzas?
Norma,

You did see the photo before. I showed the same photo at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg235707.html#msg235707, and later cross referenced Reply 195 at Reply 348 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242823.html#msg242823. You acknowledged the photo Reply 349.

With respect to the amounts of pepperoni used, it is hard to say without knowing the size of the pizza shown in the photo. HRI makes pizzas in its pizzerias in the 12", 14" and 16" sizes (http://www.homeruninnpizza.com/website/documents/menus/HRI%20TakeOutMenu_2012_CHIlowres.pdf). Since it appears that HRI builds its pizzeria pizzas on a digital scale, it is possible that they use pepperoni slices in an amount that is proportional to the pizza size. So, for example, if a 12" pizza has 14 slices (as used, for example, on a 12" frozen HRI pepperoni pizza), the number of pepperoni slices on a 14" pizza would be 14 x (49/36) = 19 pepperoni slices, and for the 16" size, it would be 14 x (64/36) = 25 pepperoni slices. If my assumptions are correct, the pizza in the photo would be 16". The pepperoni pizza shown in the HRI menu referenced above looks like it might be a 14" pizza based on the number of pepperoni slices. The "natural" pepperoni that HRI uses is more expensive than the common variety, so I would imagine that they don't go wild in the amounts of pepperoni slices that they put on their pizzas.

As for the cheese, one of the things that I discovered when I dismantled the HRI frozen pizzas and weighed several of the parts of the pizzas, I discovered that the amounts of cheese can vary on the pizzas, particularly those that have a lot of toppings. I discussed this facet of my experiments at Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242492/topicseen.html#msg242492. As a general principle, and all else being equal, a pizza with a lot of stuff on it will bake differently than one with only a few things on it.

The above notwithstanding, I do not know if the HRI pizzeria pizzas use the same amounts of cheese and toppings as for the frozen HRI pizzas with the same toppings. Maybe one of our members with total recall can answer that question for us.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #737 on: April 19, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »
Norma,

You did see the photo before. I showed the same photo at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg235707.html#msg235707, and later cross referenced Reply 195 at Reply 348 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242823.html#msg242823. You acknowledged the photo Reply 349.

With respect to the amounts of pepperoni used, it is hard to say without knowing the size of the pizza shown in the photo. HRI makes pizzas in its pizzerias in the 12", 14" and 16" sizes (http://www.homeruninnpizza.com/website/documents/menus/HRI%20TakeOutMenu_2012_CHIlowres.pdf). Since it appears that HRI builds its pizzeria pizzas on a digital scale, it is possible that they use pepperoni slices in an amount that is proportional to the pizza size. So, for example, if a 12" pizza has 14 slices (as used, for example, on a 12" frozen HRI pepperoni pizza), the number of pepperoni slices on a 14" pizza would be 14 x (49/36) = 19 pepperoni slices, and for the 16" size, it would be 14 x (64/36) = 25 pepperoni slices. If my assumptions are correct, the pizza in the photo would be 16". The pepperoni pizza shown in the HRI menu referenced above looks like it might be a 14" pizza based on the number of pepperoni slices. The "natural" pepperoni that HRI uses is more expensive than the common variety, so I would imagine that they don't go wild in the amounts of pepperoni slices that they put on their pizzas.

As for the cheese, one of the things that I discovered when I dismantled the HRI frozen pizzas and weighed several of the parts of the pizzas, I discovered that the amounts of cheese can vary on the pizzas, particularly those that have a lot of toppings. I discussed this facet of my experiments at Reply 307 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg242492/topicseen.html#msg242492. As a general principle, and all else being equal, a pizza with a lot of stuff on it will bake differently than one with only a few things on it.

The above notwithstanding, I do not know if the HRI pizzeria pizzas use the same amounts of cheese and toppings as for the frozen HRI pizzas with the same toppings. Maybe one of our members with total recall can answer that question for us.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that I did see that photo before.  :-[ I think I need some of those memory pills.  I do recall now.

I can understand the amount of pepperoni used would depend on what size pizza was shown in that photo.  I didnít think about a larger pizza when I looked at that photo.  Since it appears HRI builds its pizzeria pizzas on a scale, it seems like HRI would be pretty consistent in their amounts of toppings.  Maybe it just appeared to me there was less cheese since more toppings were on that pizza.

Thanks for referencing Reply 307 again. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #738 on: April 19, 2013, 08:16:09 PM »
I donít know what to make of this attempted HRI clone dough ball, but after 12 hrs. it has not showed signs of any signs of fermentation from using the poppy seed trick.  The only different method I used this time, was to mix the salt 2 minutes into the final mix with the dough hook and then added the ADY last and mixed the rest of the way.  The only other differences are my fridge is now colder and also the room temperature where I was mixing the dough this morning was cooler.  The cooler room temperature wouldnít make much of any difference in my opinion, because the final dough ball temperature was okay.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #739 on: April 19, 2013, 08:23:16 PM »
Well, this is a totally different way of dough making for you and it looks like it is doing what was hoped for, no? By adding a non bloomed ady into your mix at the final stage of mixing....I too am curious just how long it will take to see some action. This is interesting Norma.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #740 on: April 19, 2013, 08:48:31 PM »
Well, this is a totally different way of dough making for you and it looks like it is doing what was hoped for, no? By adding a non bloomed ady into your mix at the final stage of mixing....I too am curious just how long it will take to see some action. This is interesting Norma.

Bob,

I really donít know if that is what I hoped for.  I expected the dough to ferment some by now with all that ADY.  The only thing I did differently last week was added the salt on one side of the dough and the ADY on the other side and then gave it the final mix.  This is a photo of the bottom of the dough ball.  I canít really tell if those bubbles are bubbles or fermentation, or maybe just from the dough ball settling in the plastic container.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #741 on: April 19, 2013, 09:01:40 PM »
Norma,

I wouldn't be alarmed. The method you used to make the dough, along with the cooler temperatures, are keeping the yeast from doing its thing. In due course, I would expect the yeast to wake up and let the fermentation process take hold and rise the dough. Once that happens, the rise should speed up quite quickly. The rise won't be linear. It will take place in sizable jumps. What we don't know at this point is the fermentation window for your dough. It might be 24 hours ot it might be 48 hours. I'd rather have a restrained fermentation than one that is almost uncontrollable.

Peter


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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #742 on: April 19, 2013, 09:28:29 PM »
Norma,

I wouldn't be alarmed. The method you used to make the dough, along with the cooler temperatures, are keeping the yeast from doing its thing. In due course, I would expect the yeast to wake up and let the fermentation process take hold and rise the dough. Once that happens, the rise should speed up quite quickly. The rise won't be linear. It will take place in sizable jumps. What we don't know at this point is the fermentation window for your dough. It might be 24 hours ot it might be 48 hours. I'd rather have a restrained fermentation than one that is almost uncontrollable.

Peter


Thanks for telling me what is happening is normal for right now.  I will watch the dough ball over the next day and take photos every 12 hrs. so you can decide when I should use the dough ball to make the pizza.  I would rather have the fermentation restrained too, but will watch and see what happens.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #743 on: April 19, 2013, 10:16:53 PM »
Norma,

I wouldn't be alarmed.
Peter
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #744 on: April 19, 2013, 10:37:50 PM »
        = you can get a 'lil franic...but jus don't panic!   ;D

Bob,

I didn't panic.  I just thought it wasn't right that the dough ball didn't ferment more since this morning.  There is always another day to make another dough ball.

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #745 on: April 20, 2013, 07:48:49 AM »
This is how the attempted HRI clone dough ball looks after 23 Ĺ hrs. of cold fermentation.  The dough ball is firm and it really canít be seen on the top view of the dough ball from the one photo, but it looks something like pie dough in that the corn oil looks somewhat separated from the flour and water.  If anyone wants me to take a picture outside in better natural light, I can do that to see what the top of the dough ball really looks like.  The poppy seeds have moved a little until this morning.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #746 on: April 20, 2013, 08:36:18 AM »
The dough ball is firm and it really canít be seen on the top view of the dough ball from the one photo, but it looks something like pie dough in that the corn oil looks somewhat separated from the flour and water.
Norma,

As I mentioned to Bob at Reply 566 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg245715/topicseen.html#msg245715, you can expect to see white spots on the outer surface of the dough ball. If that is what you are referring to, that would be quite normal. Those white spots will spread out and diminish and disappear for the most part as fermentation proceeds, and especially toward the end of the fermentation window.

I like what your dough is doing. I don't know if you are replicating what HRI does with its dough but I will be interested in seeing how your dough performs when time comes to use it to make the skin. In particular, I would like to see how the dough performs when it hasn't gone much beyond the doubling stage, whenever that occurs. You might recall that the articles on HRI's dough mentioned a fermentation window of from 12 hours to 3 days.

Peter

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #747 on: April 20, 2013, 09:01:44 AM »
Norma,

As I mentioned to Bob at Reply 566 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.msg245715/topicseen.html#msg245715, you can expect to see white spots on the outer surface of the dough ball. If that is what you are referring to, that would be quite normal. Those white spots will spread out and diminish and disappear for the most part as fermentation proceeds, and especially toward the end of the fermentation window.

I like what your dough is doing. I don't know if you are replicating what HRI does with its dough but I will be interested in seeing how your dough performs when time comes to use it to make the skin. In particular, I would like to see how the dough performs when it hasn't gone much beyond the doubling stage, whenever that occurs. You might recall that the articles on HRI's dough mentioned a fermentation window of from 12 hours to 3 days.

Peter

Peter,

I guess the white spots is what I am seeing on the dough ball.  Photo below to show what I am seeing. 

I sure donít know if I am replicating what HRI does with it dough either.  I do recall that the articles on the HRIís dough mentioned a fermentation window of 12 hours to 3 days.  I think that is a pretty big window of fermentation when so much yeast is used, but then I saw how much fermentation my last dough ball had and was useable.  I also recall about your dough ball in your last experiment.  I will try to use the dough ball to make the pizza when the dough ball hasnít gone much beyond the doubling stage. 

Norma
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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #748 on: April 20, 2013, 12:34:24 PM »
Ok, I'm just free-wheelin' here but has anyone ever tried a fat like lard or coconut oil, you know, something that's solid at room temperatures? As a way of getting layers into the finished pizza. There're probably many reasons why it won't work but I'm just askin'.
I got a dough docker and a new KD8000 scale so I'm locked and loaded for another HRI try next week. But first I wanna try BTB's Thin Crust with Semolina with a 12-inch cutter pan.

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Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #749 on: April 20, 2013, 08:52:10 PM »
This is how the dough ball looks after a little over 36 Ĺ hours.  The poppy seed spacings havenít changed a lot, but it can be seen on the side of the plastic container that the dough ball is fermenting.  Also, there is one soft bubble on the one top side of the dough ball.  The rest of the dough ball is still firm.

Norma
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