Author Topic: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation  (Read 118519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #125 on: February 02, 2010, 11:15:20 PM »
Paul, if you haven't tried the bottom shelf, try it. If you've tried bottom shelf and it didn't give you the browning you wanted, try bottom shelf with the door ajar.  With the door slightly open the heat won't collect in the headspace and the bottom element will have a tendency to stay on- in essence broiling the pizza from beneath.  Because the heat won't collect, the top of the pie will cook very slowly- possibly too slowly.  The first time you attempt this, maybe go half oven ajar, half closed- preferably the first half ajar as bottom heat is better for oven spring.


parallei

  • Guest
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #126 on: February 02, 2010, 11:43:12 PM »
Peter-

Yes, exactly, I was thinking of the "fried" effect it the pan.  I think I'll give the honey a try first, I always use a bit in my NY style pies. However, my birthday is coming up and a fellow could always use another pizza pan!  I wonder why I can't get the color Loo got with Loo's recipe?  Thanks for the reminder on the honey.

Scott-

I'm as low as I can go in my Viking oven, with the disk on the stone at 475F.  I preheat for an hour minimum.  I'll try your tip with the door.  Maybe I'll also try directly on the stone as WestCountry suggested.

Thanks to both of you...   

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #127 on: February 03, 2010, 12:33:36 AM »
Scott-

I'm as low as I can go in my Viking oven, with the disk on the stone at 475F.  I preheat for an hour minimum.  I'll try your tip with the door.  Maybe I'll also try directly on the stone as WestCountry suggested.

Paul, try bottom shelf, no stone.  If the stone is thin, it will only pass a certain amount of heat to the disk and then it will act like an insulator.  If the stone is thick, it might be made from a poorly conductive material and might not sufficiently preheat in that 1 hour minimum time frame. Try once without any stone whatsoever. Oh, and no convection. You want the convective heat going straight up from the element to the disk, not swirling around the oven.

Offline firefly765

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #128 on: February 03, 2010, 11:16:34 AM »
Loo,

Thanks for the great recipe. I've done it twice now with awesome results. I tweeked it a little as I have no mixer (just a food processor). I copied & pasted your recipe then changed to my way of doing things. Here is my version:
I have a couple issues which I'll address after the recipe.

Flour (100%): 204.22 g  |  7.2 oz | 0.45 lbs
Water (42%): 85.77 g  |  3.03 oz | 0.19 lbs
ADY (1.75%): 3.57 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):3.57 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.64 tsp | 0.21 tbsp 
Sugar (1%): 2.04 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.51 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Oil:  (20%): 40.84 g | 1.44 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.08 tsp | 3.03 tbsp 
Total: 340.03 g | 11.99 oz | 0.75 lbs | TF = 0.10605
12 diameter  .105 thickness factor
Begin by dissolving salt & sugar in 110-115* water.  Add ADY and stir it in then let bloom for five minutes.  Add half of the flour and begin to mix in food processor Once it comes together add the oil and half of the remaining flour (3/4 of all flour now in mixer).  Once that comes together, knead until comes into a ball.  Add remaining flour and mix until combined.  If it seems a little scrappy, add water one teaspoon at a time until it comes together.  This will be a pretty stiff dough.

Place in bowl and cover with a tea towel then let rise in warm oven (light on is good enough for me) for two hours with a pan of hot water on the rack beneath to provide some humidity.  Punch down and let rise again for another two hours.  Remove from oven.

Preheat oven to 475*

Portion dough for same day use but try not to over handle.  Pat out to size then place on a pizza stone  Pinch up the edge to create a rim.  Top skin with 6 3/4 oz. sauce, preferred toppings and 10 oz. shredded low moisture part skim mozz.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What i do after the 2nd rise is place in covered oiled bowl overnight in fridge. Remove from fridge for ~ 2 hrs. form shell on a floured counter w/o kneeding.
the dough is very fragile at this time.  ???
I'm not kneeding, would it help to kneed a couple minutes prior to forming into a shell? ??? ???
 It's very tasty & flaky, almost like pastry, but not very elastic. If i were to pick it up & try to stretch it, my hand would go right through it. :-\

Thanks for any help.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23607
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #129 on: February 03, 2010, 11:21:18 AM »
I'm as low as I can go in my Viking oven, with the disk on the stone at 475F.

Paul,

I wasn't aware of the fact that you were using the disk on a stone. You might want to try scott123's recommendation before altering your dough formulation.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23607
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #130 on: February 03, 2010, 11:27:30 AM »
Pat out to size then place on a pizza stone  Pinch up the edge to create a rim.  Top skin with 6 3/4 oz. sauce, preferred toppings and 10 oz. shredded low moisture part skim mozz.

firefly765,

As a point of clarification and to help Loo better respond to your questions, are you saying that you are placing the skin directly onto a preheated pizza stone and then forming a rim, dressing the pizza, and baking it?

Peter

Offline loowaters

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 613
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Somewhere...in Iowa.
  • Where's my knife and fork?
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #131 on: February 03, 2010, 04:07:55 PM »
Firefly, a couple things to clarify.  First, like Peter asked, we need to know if you're placing your skin onto a stone then making a rim.  That would mean removal from the oven and a probably a significant heat loss.  Also, you've placed a disk on to the stone?  Honestly, if you're placing the disk on to the stone in the oven you're going to get less than effective use of both.  Dark disk right on to, probably, the middle rack.  Dark disk too low will overcook the crust.  Or you can move it to a higher rack position to finish the top after several minutes into the cook.

You don't want to knead before forming the skin as it will probably make it a bit bucky for you.  With the high oil content of this dough it will seem like it's not going to stretch very well without ripping.  Pat it or roll it out to form the skin.  It's been discussed in a couple of the HRI threads that the frozen operation uses a hot dough press to form the skins.  I've found that pressing it out with our fingers and hands is good enough for home pizza making.

Do you have any pics?

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Offline firefly765

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #132 on: February 03, 2010, 07:37:40 PM »

actually that's just part of my cut & paste from Loo's original recipe. I form the skin on a floured counter then slide it onto a stone via a peel w/ cornmeal.


firefly765,

As a point of clarification and to help Loo better respond to your questions, are you saying that you are placing the skin directly onto a preheated pizza stone and then forming a rim, dressing the pizza, and baking it?

Peter

Offline firefly765

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #133 on: February 03, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »

Loo,
That was someone else's qoute he was responding to. I'm cooking directly on a 13" pizza stone on a big green egg (I'm that guy again).
so my dough should be "fragile"?
I'll just be careful with it & take some pics next time. Maybe this weekend. ;)

Is my prep method OK per your guy's opinions?

Firefly, a couple things to clarify.  First, like Peter asked, we need to know if you're placing your skin onto a stone then making a rim.  That would mean removal from the oven and a probably a significant heat loss.  Also, you've placed a disk on to the stone?  Honestly, if you're placing the disk on to the stone in the oven you're going to get less than effective use of both.  Dark disk right on to, probably, the middle rack.  Dark disk too low will overcook the crust.  Or you can move it to a higher rack position to finish the top after several minutes into the cook.

You don't want to knead before forming the skin as it will probably make it a bit bucky for you.  With the high oil content of this dough it will seem like it's not going to stretch very well without ripping.  Pat it or roll it out to form the skin.  It's been discussed in a couple of the HRI threads that the frozen operation uses a hot dough press to form the skins.  I've found that pressing it out with our fingers and hands is good enough for home pizza making.

Do you have any pics?

Loo


Offline loowaters

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 613
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Somewhere...in Iowa.
  • Where's my knife and fork?
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #134 on: February 03, 2010, 08:25:07 PM »
You don't have a mixer and if you wanted to forego using the food processor, with this type of dough and it's high oil content, you do a hand knead you won't have to do it too long.  Probably 5-6 minutes would do depending on how aggressively you go at it. 

I really don't know how cooking in a Big Green Egg or Little Blue Egg (does that exist?) for that matter works so helping you on that front...well, I'm not able to give you anything. 

This is one of those pizzas where one of the toughest things to pin down was hit right away.  The sauce.  It's an Escalon product but it's a watered down, pretty thin, puree with salt and pepper.  Thin enough that I'll pour it in the center and pick up the disk and let the sauce run around on the skin to cover completely.  I use an immersion blender to puree 6 in 1's.  A hand shake of oregano on the sauce before topping and that's it.

I'm going to repeat something that I think is really weird about this type of pizza.  It's better after being reheated.   Big oven, toaster oven, either way,  just no microwave.  I dont' know if that's because HRI frozens are 90% cooked and we finish them in the oven or what, but to really get a great recreation of HRI's pizzas a next day reheat makes this pizza shine.  Strange.  The neapolitan guys will roll their eyes at that. :-[

Loo
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 08:27:18 PM by loowaters »
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23607
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #135 on: February 03, 2010, 09:00:48 PM »
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
What i do after the 2nd rise is place in covered oiled bowl overnight in fridge. Remove from fridge for ~ 2 hrs. form shell on a floured counter w/o kneeding.
the dough is very fragile at this time.  ???
I'm not kneeding, would it help to kneed a couple minutes prior to forming into a shell? ??? ???
 It's very tasty & flaky, almost like pastry, but not very elastic. If i were to pick it up & try to stretch it, my hand would go right through it. :-\

firefly765,

Loo's recipe as posted at the start of this thread is intended to be used a fairly short period of time after the dough has been made. To this end, a lot of yeast, 1.75% ADY, is used. If you choose to place the dough in the refrigerator after the second rise, there is a high probability that the dough will overferment and become overly extensible and prone to tearing and thin spots. Re-kneading or reworking the dough will not be successful, as Loo noted. The dough simply wasn't designed for refrigeration. If you want to come up with a refrigerated version, you would have to significantly reduce the amount of yeast and possibly make other changes in the fermentation protocol. Whether you will get comparable results as the same-day version or whether you like the results as well are questions that you can only answer by trying a cold fermented version of Loo's recipe or a combination of room temperature fermentation and cold fermentation.

Peter

Offline firefly765

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #136 on: February 04, 2010, 08:13:07 AM »

Thanks for all the help. As far as the egg goes I don't need any help there. I've got that thing pretty dialed in.
As for my sauce, I'm not really trying to "clone" the HRI pizza. I am from Chicago, but I don't remember ever having eaten there. Maybe on my next visit. So, I wouldn't really know how to compare. I've never seen the 6 in 1's down here in S FlA. I'm Using Fratelli's (Sp?) canned pizza sauce. It's cheap ($1.49/can) and tastes really good to me. I'll probably try to tweek it with some fresh chopped tomatoes.

It's probably better reheated because of all that oil....good for the hangover! :)







You don't have a mixer and if you wanted to forego using the food processor, with this type of dough and it's high oil content, you do a hand knead you won't have to do it too long.  Probably 5-6 minutes would do depending on how aggressively you go at it. 

I really don't know how cooking in a Big Green Egg or Little Blue Egg (does that exist?) for that matter works so helping you on that front...well, I'm not able to give you anything. 

This is one of those pizzas where one of the toughest things to pin down was hit right away.  The sauce.  It's an Escalon product but it's a watered down, pretty thin, puree with salt and pepper.  Thin enough that I'll pour it in the center and pick up the disk and let the sauce run around on the skin to cover completely.  I use an immersion blender to puree 6 in 1's.  A hand shake of oregano on the sauce before topping and that's it.

I'm going to repeat something that I think is really weird about this type of pizza.  It's better after being reheated.   Big oven, toaster oven, either way,  just no microwave.  I dont' know if that's because HRI frozens are 90% cooked and we finish them in the oven or what, but to really get a great recreation of HRI's pizzas a next day reheat makes this pizza shine.  Strange.  The neapolitan guys will roll their eyes at that. :-[

Loo

Offline firefly765

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #137 on: February 04, 2010, 09:10:39 AM »

OK my yeast must be overfermented. If i want an overnight should i cut back to 1% ADY?
or, just throw right onto the fridge with no room temp rise?
or, just make it the same day like LOO meant for it? ;D

The reason i ask is because sometimes it's more convienent for me to prep the dough the day before and just be ready to go the next day with no extra mess & time.
I'm going to mix up another batch tonight & maybe a whole wheat the wife has been asking about. Look for me on the Specialty-Grain Pizzas forum next!! :-D


Thanks,
AC



firefly765,

Loo's recipe as posted at the start of this thread is intended to be used a fairly short period of time after the dough has been made. To this end, a lot of yeast, 1.75% ADY, is used. If you choose to place the dough in the refrigerator after the second rise, there is a high probability that the dough will overferment and become overly extensible and prone to tearing and thin spots. Re-kneading or reworking the dough will not be successful, as Loo noted. The dough simply wasn't designed for refrigeration. If you want to come up with a refrigerated version, you would have to significantly reduce the amount of yeast and possibly make other changes in the fermentation protocol. Whether you will get comparable results as the same-day version or whether you like the results as well are questions that you can only answer by trying a cold fermented version of Loo's recipe or a combination of room temperature fermentation and cold fermentation.

Peter

Offline loowaters

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 613
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Somewhere...in Iowa.
  • Where's my knife and fork?
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #138 on: February 04, 2010, 10:03:24 AM »
Either way will work for you.  Maybe cut the warm ferment time to one rise then into the fridge.  If you're giving it two rises then to the fridge overnite, cut in half.  It won't hurt.  Plenty of ways to tinker that won't affect results too much but will increase the life of the dough before use.

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #139 on: February 07, 2010, 04:23:12 PM »
I'm almost there.  I tried Scott's suggestion and placed the disk on the lowest rack without the stone, cracked the door a bit, and no convection.  Additionally, I preheated for about 1 hr 15 min. to just below 475F and then cranked the temp up a bit once the pie was in the even to get the bottom element going again.  Much better results browning on the bottom, but still not as brown as I'd like it toward the center.  Next I'll try Peter's suggestion, with the addition of a bit of honey.  But I'll probably cut the yeast down to 3 or 4 % and let it go overnight.  Sorry for the blurred bottom shoot!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23607
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #140 on: February 07, 2010, 04:41:11 PM »
I'm almost there.  I tried Scott's suggestion and placed the disk on the lowest rack without the stone, cracked the door a bit, and no convection.  Additionally, I preheated for about 1 hr 15 min. to just below 475F and then cranked the temp up a bit once the pie was in the even to get the bottom element going again.  Much better results browning on the bottom, but still not as brown as I'd like it toward the center.  Next I'll try Peter's suggestion, with the addition of a bit of honey.  But I'll probably cut the yeast down to 3 or 4 % and let it go overnight.  Sorry for the blurred bottom shoot!

Paul,

If you are not using the pizza stone you shouldn't need to preheat your oven for one hour and fifteen minutes. That long preheat is normally just to get a pizza stone hot enough to bake the pizza at the desired temperature and have the stone retain the heat. I bake many pizzas on screens (and no stone) and I preheat the oven only long enough to reach the desired bake temperature. In most cases, that takes my oven about 12-15 minutes. In your case, whether you use honey or not, you might want to use an oven temperature that is initially higher than the 475 degrees F temperature you used. You can always lower the oven temperature if it looks like the bottom crust is browning too much or too quickly.

Can you clarify what you mean by cutting the yeast down to "3 or 4%"?

Peter

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #141 on: February 07, 2010, 09:20:07 PM »
Peter,

Quote
Can you clarify what you mean by cutting the yeast down to "3 or 4%"?

Sure, I meant 0.3 or 0.4%!

O.K.,  I'll try a higher temperature.  Good thing my lipid profile was good in December!

Best

Paul


Offline firefly765

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2010, 10:54:36 AM »

Offline jimmy33

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 21
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #143 on: March 31, 2010, 10:46:17 PM »
Hey Pete-zza
  Can you help me with a 18 inch . I will need measurements and instructions thanks .  You Rock!!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23607
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #144 on: April 01, 2010, 11:16:42 AM »
jimmy33,

I'd like you to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and take a first stab at answering your own question as to the formulation to use to make an 18" pizza. That is the best way for you to learn. Loo can correct me on this, but to the best of my knowledge, the only dough formulation that he posted is the one at the top of this thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6112.0.html. If I am correct on this, all of the baker's percents and the thickness factor are given in that post and should be used in the expanded dough calculating tool. If you care to post the dough formulation you get from using that tool, I'd be happy to review your results.

On the matter of instructions to follow, you might want to read this thread in its entirety since there are many different variations, both in terms of technique and equipment to use. That way, you can see whether you have the right equipment to make the pizza. If there are any remaining questions as to instructions to follow, I will defer to Loo on those matters since is the expert on the HRI style.

Peter

Offline loowaters

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 613
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Somewhere...in Iowa.
  • Where's my knife and fork?
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #145 on: April 01, 2010, 08:59:03 PM »
Jimmy33, Peter's right, get familiar with the dough tools, they're incredibly helpful.

A couple things about this formulation and how I've been preparing it of late.  First, addressing what BTB had to say over here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10605.msg94575.html#msg94575 about the "thick-thin" aspect of the pie, I seem to be making this thicker each time I've made it of late.  The most recent doughball was 400g for a 12" pie.  That's a thickness factor of .1247, considerably thicker than when I started this thread.  One thing though, I'm over sizing the skin by a full inch then rolling the extra 1/2" (radius) back over to create the rim and kinda braid/pinch it up.  That's now a 13" skin that effectively has a TF of .1062 but gets rolled back to 12".  Make sense?  Also, I will not roll this dough out.  I pat it out to size using some bench flour.  That helps keep the tender texture that we're looking for with this clone.

Also, I'm really giving this a good bake.  I'm treating like I do a cracker type thin.  Preheat at 450* then when the pie goes in on the middle rack, I bump the heat to 525* to keep the element on and really start cooking that bottom.  I'm cooking on perforated disks.  This crust needs to get really cooked well and with enough sauce you'll get the exactly the type of crust texture that you're getting at HRI, at least as far as I remember. 

This type of pie comes out really good using my Malnati's clone dough as well as making this exact formula at the beginning of the thread.  It does benefit by having some salt in it which the Malnati's clone does not.  Cook it until you think it's done...then give it a little more time.  Of course don't burn it but get it nice and brown.

And Peter, as far as being the HRI expert, I think I'll actually defer to BTB on that.  I can count the times on one hand that I ate the original HRI pie from the first restaurant and I've never eaten it there, always takeout...and that's when I was a kid.  My dad on the other hand had plenty of them.  I'd eaten several times at the old Rolling Meadows(?) location (on Algonquin Rd., IIRC), but that wasn't the same as the original. 

Loo
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 09:03:15 PM by loowaters »
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Offline jalessi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2010, 09:59:42 PM »
Loowaters,

Made the first HRI pie today and it tasted good.

It was not as buttery as I remember.

What would add more of a butter taste?

Thank You

Jeff...

Offline andieu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #147 on: July 23, 2010, 05:19:07 PM »
I love Home Run Inn Pizza!! I am eating one right now :)
Does anyone have a recipe for their pizza sauce? I am not the best cook and no way could I replicate anything unless I have an exact recipe to follow  ;)

Offline loowaters

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 613
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Somewhere...in Iowa.
  • Where's my knife and fork?
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #148 on: July 23, 2010, 06:40:05 PM »
Welcome to the board.  Page 1, reply 2.

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Offline RobDude

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 57
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Dublin, Ireland
Re: Home Run Inn Success and Final Formulation
« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2010, 04:08:40 PM »
Thanks for the recipe and to all the posters with pictures.  I'm going to give this a try this weekend.

One thing that really amazes me is how different all the pizzas end up looking.


 

pizzapan