Author Topic: Newbe needing info  (Read 4648 times)

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Offline dankfoot

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Newbe needing info
« on: October 27, 2004, 11:13:54 AM »
Hi guys, I found this site yesterday and I am so happy I did. Everyone here seems to know what they are talking about. I have been making pies for a couple years now but I usually change the recipe every time. I'm looking a good recipe that I can use everytime but I also have some questions.
1. I read that wet pizza dough is better. why?
2. I have used King Auther flour in the past but I havent in awhile. Why is high gluten flour better?
3. Why is 6 in 1 tomatoes better?
4. Sometimes my dough tears easy and sometimes it snaps back to much. ( very hard to roll out) why is that?
5. Does anyone use egg white in there dough?

That is all I can think of for now. Thanks for anyones help and please hook me up with a good recipe.
Chris


Offline Giovanni

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2004, 12:42:02 PM »
I wouldnt say wet dough is better rather a higher hydration dough is better. This is because of the high temps typically used to cook the pizza. The higher hydration helps to stop the dough from loosing to much moisture and becoming like cardboard. This is just one reason though. High gluten flour provides a couple benefits such as being able to strech the dough out thinner. With a lower gluten flour streaching is nearly impossible. The higher gluten also provides a chewier crust. Tomatoes are not all made the same, the paking process really matters. Most of the brands you will hear about are packed soon after harvest and are not overly cooked like store bought brands. Some would say 6 in1 is the best why others say Stanislaus brand is better. I have used both and prefer Stanislaus Red Sauce over 6 in 1. I suspect the problems with your dough could be the gluten content and hydration levels. Make sure you get at least 60 percent hydration and relax the dough after refrideration. I don't use eggs myself in any recipes.

I'll post my recipe later with directions when i get more time. I'm sure others will chime in to help out.

Offline dankfoot

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2004, 01:05:08 PM »
Giovanni,

Thanks for your reply. Lately I have just been using all purpose flour. Like I said I havent used KA in awhile. I have to order that and get it shipped to me since no one around me has it. Also, I have never put my dough in the refrigerator? Is this something I should try? Usually I just let it rise for a hour or so. Also, I just got a stand up mixer and lately the dough and been to wet. Almost like chewing gun. really sticky and stringy. I guess I need more flour.
Thanks.

Offline DKM

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2004, 02:09:31 PM »
I do not use eggs.

The dough snapping back sounds like it is not rested.  Normally letting it sit for 20 minutes or so takes care of that.

DKM
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Offline Giovanni

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2004, 02:37:30 PM »
You can get ok results with AP flour but to get a great result KA Sir Lancelot is a must. Most around here would agree that it's one of the best flours available. The ability to buy in smaller quantities is also a plus. Proofing (refrigerating) your dough is highly recommended. Almost all pro pizza shops do this. It helps to slow fermentation and flavor the dough. It's very important to follow exact measurements in respect to the flour/water ratio. As I stated before 60% hydration is ideal for most dough. I actually donít use a mixer, i do it buy hand and when the dough feels right I know I'm done. Usually i knead the dough not more than 5 minutes total to get the desired results.

My base recipe is:
16 oz Flour
10 oz water
1 tsp salt
1 oz olive oil
1/2 oz sugar
2 tsp Active Dry Yeast

This gives about 62% hydration, it will be fairly sticky but after the flour gets hydrated it will be perfectly manageable by hand or mixer. Here is how i suggest you prep:

Combine half the flour, all the yeast, and the salt in a bowl. Heat your water slowly untill it reaches 120 degrees then add the sugar to the water to combine then pour this into the bowl and mix for 1-2 minutes until it comes together. Let rest for 1 minute then add the rest of the ingredients. Mix this until it comes together and let rest for another minute. At this point i would knead by hand on a clean surface with no extra flour for about 1 minute. It is important not to add any extra flour to your dough (it will be sticky). Let the dough rest for about 2 more minutes (this helps to hydrate the flour). After the last rest period it should be less sticky. Now knead it until it gets the desired consistency, probably 1-2 more minutes. The finished dough should have a smooth outer texture and the temperature of the dough ball should be 80-85 degrees. Next i put my dough in the freezer for 30 minutes to quickly cool it down and stop fermentation then move it to the fridge until the next day (24 hours). When you are ready to cook it preheat your oven to 520, take the dough out of the fridge and let set for about 45 minutes. When you want to shape it do not roll it out or smash it down, this will kill the air pockets and your crust will be dense. Gently toss and shape the dough until it reaches 14-18 inches across, top with sauce and other toppings and then cook on a screen or stone for 5-7 minutes until done.

Tips:
1. Get an oven thermometer and make sure your oven really reaches the desired temp. My oven tends to take an additional 20 minutes past the pre-heat signal to reach the full desired temp.
2. Get a quality digital scale and kitchen thermometer.
3. Weigh all your ingredients, don't guess on temps.
4. Try a screen first, oven stones are not for everyone.
5. Try different prep methods, what works for me may not work for you.
Edit: more tips
6. Try Stanislaus Full Red Pizza Sauce or 6 in 1
7. Whole Milk or Part-Skim Grande Brand Mozz is the best. There is nothing comparable to it flavor wise.
8. A good pizzeria style pepperoni is hard to come by in small quantities, check your local gourmet shops and see what they carry, you might find something better than Hormel or Eckridge.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2004, 02:51:24 PM by Giovanni »

Offline dankfoot

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2004, 03:17:45 PM »
Hey, thanks alot for your help. I guess I will have to order me some more KA flour. Once I try this I will let you know how it turned out.

One more question though. When does it rise? In the refrigerator? I thought it had to be warm to rise? Thanks.

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2004, 03:22:47 PM »
It will rise in the refridgerator, the lower temperature just lengthens the process, creating a more developed flavor.
Although you can get the dough to rise in 1-2 hours on the counter, the taste is considerably improved by letting the dough rise over a period of at least 24 hours.
After that try 2 days in the fridge and expereiment yourself with different rising times. ;D
Ahhh, Pizza The Fifth Food Group

Offline dankfoot

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2004, 03:49:06 PM »
cool, thanks. I just ordered me some flour. Now I need to find some 6 in 1.

Offline Giovanni

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2004, 04:33:44 PM »
You can get them direct from escalon:
http://www.escalon.net/6in1.asp

Just click the 'Ship Online' image near the top right.

Offline Randy

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2004, 05:51:08 PM »
I would think you would not have 62% hydration after kneading by hand.

Randy


Offline Gils

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2004, 06:52:49 PM »
Part of the reason it may be snapping is as DKM stated that it may need to rest. If it is breaking and dry as you stated I suspect that there is too much flour incorporated into the dough. This can create a better cracker crust, but too much will cause the dough to become brickish in nature. It won't be very workable and will not result in the crunchy , yet chewy texture you might be hoping for.

Mixing dough profesionally, we did not use an exact ratio of water to flour. Now mind you we were using 25 lb bags of high gluten flour at a shot and mass producing dough for the nights pizzas, but the principle is still the same on a smaller level. When the mixer is kneading the dough you can tell you are getting close when it starts to hold its shape, while not "sticking "to the sides of the bowl. It should be slightly tacky, but not sticky when you touch it.  It should still be pliable, yet again, not sticky.

The best way I know of to accomplish that is to incorporate the flour in stages. You want to add the majority of it till it starts to gather and then let it work while adding low amounts, and letting it work in, before giving it more flour. This is not true for all crusts, and I am sure there are some with more knowledge on the matter.

The overnight run in the fridge, as stated before is a way to slow the rising process. This allows for the gases to work the chemical change in the glutens and ferment the dough more than it would in a few hours on the counter. You could in thery let it sit on the counter all night, but the process would be way to fast and you would end up with dead dough. Counter top works, but you generally get a much better texture & flavor by putting the dough in the fridge overnight. You also eliminate the "bready" texture somewhat more.

I generally do not use eggs in the dough I make as it gives the crust more lift. They basically strengthen the bread and help it keep shape, or so I have read.

Online Pete-zza

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Re:Newbe needing info
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2004, 11:29:46 AM »
Dankfoot,

I want to mention that you can also find the 6-in-1 tomatoes in some supermarkets and specialty food stores in the western part of the country.  I believe it was Foccaciaman who some time ago mentioned Claro's, in Southern CA (see http://www.claros.com/).  They have about 7 stores and an online business where they sell the 6-in-1 for $1.79 a can.  My daughter-in-law lives in Scottsdale and said she found the 6-in-1 tomatoes in a local specialty food store, also at a lower price than Escalon charges.  So, if you live in the western part of the country you might want to check the local stores first.  I live in TX and when I compared the total cost including shipping charges to ship from Claro's or Escalon, they were within pennies of each other.  

Peter


 

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