Author Topic: leoparding  (Read 19479 times)

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Offline heliman

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #100 on: December 04, 2009, 10:37:48 AM »
Thanks very much for the info Peter.. I'll definitely have a read of that.

On another note - if a WFO is up around the 850 - 950 mark - does the potential not exist for the pizza to burn? When I was operating mine up around the 850 mark, the small amount of flour under the pizza blackened and smoked within about 30 secs.

Tks

Rossco
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 06:10:09 PM by heliman »


Offline Matthew

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #101 on: December 04, 2009, 10:42:45 AM »
Thanks very much for the info Peter.. I'll definitely have a head of that.

On another note - if a WFO is up around the 850 - 950 mark - does the potential not exist for the pizza to burn? When I was operating mine up around the 850 mark, the small amount of flour under the pizza blackened and smoked within about 30 secs.

Tks

Rossco

Absolutely; you must move quick with peel.  After about the 20 second mark start spinning.

Matt

Offline shuboyje

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #102 on: December 04, 2009, 01:18:31 PM »
I agree completely, I try to cook as close to 1000F as possible. As soon as the crust sets up enough to move I start turning, generally turn about three times in the 60 seconds or so it takes for the pizza to cook.

Absolutely; you must move quick with peel.  After about the 20 second mark start spinning.

Matt
-Jeff

Offline andreguidon

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #103 on: December 04, 2009, 03:17:41 PM »
Hey Matt,

i ask today the pizzaiolo about leoparding again, and he said when dough stays in the fridge it tends to get wetter... thats why you have more spots and bigger ones wen the dough stays in the fridge...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Infoodel

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #104 on: December 04, 2009, 03:36:33 PM »
Hey Matt,

i ask today the pizzaiolo about leoparding again, and he said when dough stays in the fridge it tends to get wetter... thats why you have more spots and bigger ones wen the dough stays in the fridge...

no offence to your pizzaiolo but that's ridiculous.
It simply gets more relaxed and the gluten might develop more (if it were underdeveloped to start with) - the overall dough doesn't increase in hydration! I was going to post on your other thread but I didn't want to seem disrespectful to your teacher. He's entitled to his opinion.

The relative hydration may appear to be responsible for leoparding but the key word is relative. If you compare a really stiff dough with a wetter one - there will probably appear to be more spots. However you can't apply the 'hydration = spots' factor as an absolute rule. Wetter dough simply makes it easier for dough bubbles/leopard spots to expand (they will be bigger) as well as provide more steam for an overall more dramatic oven spring.  Look at the really wet doughs employed at Apizza Scholls or Pizzeria Bianco  - there are large bubbles in the dough, yes, but not what one would call leopard spots. 

Perhaps this is a definition thing rather than a science thing....in other words within a range of hydration, the wetter dough is observed to be responsible for more leopard spots - but beyond an upper limit - those leopard spots are more like large crust bubbles than those of a 'feline nature' :P





« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:31:49 PM by Infoodel »

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #105 on: December 04, 2009, 06:37:24 PM »
Infoodel,  I forget where,  but in some of marcos advice a ways back he mentions that the dough will start to "give off" water as it matures,  and certainly the dough does act wetter as is ripens and then goes past that point.  That is the point where it starts to release water out of the gluten structure due to damage,  and effectively the dough is too wet for its own good at that point in its life.  Scott R brought up recently that a certain pizzaioli thinks that some of our doughs have spots that are too big and should be smaller and what I got out of that is that he thinks some we are overfermenting our doughs.  What I am trying to say I think is that weaker dough makes these large spots happen more often,  Not wetter dough.  When the teacher says that this happens more often when you put it in the fridge,  I assume he means to retard the fermention,  and is pointing out the eventual overfermentation and gradual breakdown or the dough,  where it actually loses its ability to hold the amount of water it originally did.  Just my take on his answer.  -marc









Infoodel

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #106 on: December 04, 2009, 06:42:40 PM »
OK I see what you're saying marc and yeah that makes more sense - but slacker would probably be a better description than 'wetter'....or perhaps 'as if it were wetter'. There is no change in the hydration. I know...semantics...but the pizzaiolo's advice still seemed a little misleading to me.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 06:44:39 PM by Infoodel »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #107 on: December 04, 2009, 06:46:19 PM »
Marc,

I was thinking the same thing. Marco discussed the release of water from its bond at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3057.msg25916/topicseen.html#msg25916 (last sentence) and also at Reply 25 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1053.msg9430/topicseen.html#msg9430. I'm pretty sure that Marco was speaking about doughs fermented at room temperature.

Peter

Infoodel

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #108 on: December 04, 2009, 06:48:29 PM »
Marc,

I was thinking the same thing. Marco discussed the release of water from its bond at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3057.msg25916/topicseen.html#msg25916 (last sentence) and also at Reply 25 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1053.msg9430/topicseen.html#msg9430. I'm pretty sure that Marco was speaking about doughs fermented at room temperature.

Peter


Peter, I was going to mention - it seemed odd that the VPN pizzaiolo focused on the refrigeration aspect. I would think that this effect would occur at room temperature just as much as in the 'fridge. I think it's more to do with the length of fermentation (the longer it sits, the more water gets 'released').

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2009, 07:07:34 PM »
Toby,

Maybe I read too much into Andre's Reply 103 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6214.msg84819.html#msg84819, but I thought that perhaps he raised the issue of the effects of cold fermentation on leoparding as a follow-up question to Reply 3 at the VPN Brazil thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9737.msg84642.html#msg84642. Andre is well aware that in the U.S. there is a fair amount of cold fermentation of 00 doughs.

Peter


Offline andreguidon

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Re: leoparding
« Reply #110 on: December 04, 2009, 07:36:08 PM »
i think whats happening here is, i had these lessons in Italian (not my first or second language) and some English (spoke by an Italian man) when i didn't understand the Italian, so wetter means more water release in this case... we used about 4 types of flour, and all of them had leopard spots... i think (this is me) that leoparding is bigger and more spots appear wen the dough is wetter and the heat is over 450C...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci


 

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