Author Topic: 50/50 Flour Mix (Bread & "00")  (Read 1606 times)

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Offline Essen1

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50/50 Flour Mix (Bread & "00")
« on: February 18, 2008, 03:19:13 PM »
Over this past weekend, I gave the 50/50 flour mix (bread flour & “00”) a shot. I’ve used 00 before with mediocre results, mainly during stretching the skin. I was never able to get it past 12”, at the most, but wanted to achieve a 14” – 15” pizza.

Pete suggested to try a combo of 50% flour with a higher gluten content and 50 % "00" flour, used in such places as DiFara or at Luzzo’s in NYC. Unfortunately, I have yet to experience their pizzas. Anyway, I went ahead and used Pillsbury’s Best bread flour because I had good results with it before and Italbrand Tipo “00”. For the life of me, I seem unable to find Caputo flour here, even at my local italian specialty store.

On Friday evening I made the poolish:

200 gr. “00” flour
300 gr. bread flour
500 gr. water (appr. 100 – 105 F)
8 gr. ADY
10 gr. sugar

I mixed it all together and let it rest at room temperature for 2 ½ hrs before putting it in the fridge until Saturday evening. I took it out, let it come up to room temperature for about an hour and mixed in the rest of the ingredients:

On Saturday evening I finished the dough by adding:

300 gr. “00” flour
200 gr. bread flour
160 gr. cold water
25 gr. salt
21 gr. olive oil

Then I started hand-kneading it for 30 mins, with a rest time of 5 mins after every 10 mins. I placed in a lightly oiled bowl and let it rest at room temperature for 2 hrs, then the dough went into the fridge for 6 hrs, before I took it out around midnight to let it proof again at room temp for 10 hrs, before dividing it into four 375 gr. balls, with a little scrap dough for a mini pizza. Into two boxes they went for another 8hrs on the counter to proof.

I noticed during stretching that it had more elasticity then the 00 flour alone and I was able to get one skin to 14" and the second one to 15".

Now, my neighbor's a pizza fanatic, so I figured I'd use her as a guinea pig for the first pie and she was completely amazed, telling me that this was my best crust to date and not to mess around with the recipe anymore. Well, when I made the second pie, I wasn't so sure. Yes, the crust was airy & light, but a tad too crispy and too thick. Before it went into the oven, the raw skin was pretty thin but puffed up during the baking, which I wasn't too happy about. I guess the "00" is not really suited for regular home ovens that don't go past 500 F.

I'm also wondering about the sugar content. perhaps a combination of water, yeast, flour & salt might be a solution?

Any comments and suggestions are more than welcome.

Below are some pics of the proofing process and a finished pie with sauce, mozzarella and Italian sausage...

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 50/50 Flour Mix (Bread & "00")
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 06:38:35 PM »
Mike,

I am having a difficult time divining the logic of the particular regimen you used to make and manage the dough. Can you explain it to me? It sounds like the regimen may have been used to accommodate your schedule rather than the other way around, but it wasn't clear to me from your description.

I am also wondering whether there may still be increased acidification of the dough because of the large amount of yeast (1.6%) in the poolish, along with the sugar (2%) and the use of warm water and two-hour room temperature ferment before refrigerating. Usually sugar is not included as part of the poolish.

The only Caputo 00 flour that you are likely to find in Italian markets is the Caputo Extra Blu 00 flour, which has a lower protein content than the Caputo Pizzeria 00 flour, which is the flour that most members use for making pizza dough. The Caputo Pizzeria flour can be found online from a few sources and from some foodservice companies that are willing to sell to individuals on a cash and carry basis. A bag of the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is 55 lbs., although it is sold repackaged in smaller bags by PennMac, at pennmac.com.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: 50/50 Flour Mix (Bread & "00")
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 07:48:11 PM »
Peter,

The reason I added sugar was to counter-balance the high amount of yeast and its tendency to feed off of the sugars in the flour rather fast. Plus, I thought it might be helpful during the cold ferment since I read somewhere that 00 flour isn't really suited for cold fermentation.

The logic behind my scheduling? Honestly, there isn't really that much logic behind it. I thought a weekend would be perfect to try the 50/50 theory, since I'm working on Saturdays and thought, it would give the cold ferment the proper time. I mean, the crust wasn't bad at all, just a little too thick for my taste, but I couldn't get it any thinner without tearing it. I'm curious as to what you would suggest as a good schedule? Any help is appreciated.  ;D

Like I mentioned in my other post, I followed a recipe I got from an italian lady a few years back. It might be outdated by today's standards but I used to have some good results with it, but never really achieved what I was looking for.

Quick question about the 00. My local italian deli/grocery store sells a flour called Farina Artigiana Tipo "0". Ever heard of Type "0"? Apparently it's a type of durum flour, but I don't know what the attributes are and how good it is for making pizza?

Mike
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 50/50 Flour Mix (Bread & "00")
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 09:38:49 PM »
Mike,

The goal in using a poolish is to use it when it reaches the point of maturation, that is, when it peaks and starts to recede. If used too soon or too long after that point, the intended benefits are not fully realized. In your case, since you used a combination of a room temperature preferment and a cold preferment, it is not clear whether you achieved the desirable point of maturation. Once the poolish goes into the refrigerator, the yeast activity slows down but the enzymes continue to do their job in extracting sugar from the starch, albeit at a somewhat slower rate than the yeast. Both of these processes will happen faster with a poolish than with a standard dough because of the much higher hydration of the poolish (100%). If you didn’t pay attention to whether the poolish had matured when you used it, you would still get some of the effects of using the poolish but it is also possible that you ended up with excessive generation of acid that affected the extensibility of the dough. There may have also been secondary negative effects, mainly in the flavor department.

As far as the use of sugar is concerned, as you will note from this post,
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4019.msg36016/topicseen.html#msg36016 (Reply 4), there are a lot of things that happen in terms of producing sugars to feed the yeast during fermentation. However, they take time to unfold. Since you were using a poolish, the conversion of starch to sugar through enzyme performance will happen faster because of the high hydration as noted above. Poolish is a room temperature creature, so refrigerating it alters the rates at which biochemical activity takes place. So, in your case, it is not clear how much yeast and sugar remained in the poolish at the time of the final mix.

Typically, a poolish in the bread world is made by using 20-80% of the formula water, which is then elaborated with an equal weight of flour. In your case, the poolish you made used about 75.8% of the total formula water (500/660 = 75.8%). However, the total poolish weight you used represents about 59% of the total dough weight (1018/1724 = 59%). The greater the amount of the poolish in relation to the total dough weight, the greater the likelihood of production of acid. Too much acid and you can end up with a dough that is too elastic and, therefore, difficult to stretch without tears forming. I can’t say whether that actually happened in your case because of all of the extra steps you used to produce the dough and to manage it. One way to tell whether excessive acid production was responsible or contributed to the dough condition you described would be to use a poolish that is made in the traditional manner, with far less yeast, no added sugar, and prefermented at room temperature to the maturation stage. Once that stage is reached, then the rest of the ingredients can be combined as part of the final mix. If that doesn’t work, then I would make and use a smaller amount of preferment in relation to the total dough weight.

The “0” flour is a less refined flour than the “00” flour, as noted at this post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg13239.html#msg13239. I have not used the “0” flour so I can’t say how good it is for making pizza dough.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: 50/50 Flour Mix (Bread & "00")
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 10:22:49 PM »
Peter,

Good God, where to you get all this info? It seems like you're a walking lexicon of pizza making ;D.  I really appreciate all the tips you have shared so far.

I didn't know that a poolish, if that's even the right term for what I made (I doubt it), will recede if it reaches maturity. I've never noticed that, but then again, since I didn't really know I guess I didn't pay much attention to the maturity level. But will from now on. Now I understand what you meant by "doing it on my schedule or on the dough's".

I'll pay attention to it next time I make a dough, which will be soon, this time trying a lower amount of yeast.

Mike

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/