Author Topic: Sicilian, round 3  (Read 3922 times)

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Offline zalicious

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Sicilian, round 3
« on: April 29, 2008, 09:52:53 PM »
I tried another Sicilian recipe today, this time using Tom Lehmann's recipe as adjusted by Pete-zza ( in regards to the type & amount of yeast ) here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.msg19680.html#msg19680
I've been trying to replicate Sicilian pizza like I used to enjoy in the Boston area about 20 years ago. This is my closest so far. It was very good & VERY pretty ;D.


Offline zalicious

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 09:54:17 PM »
Here's a slice

Offline scott r

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2008, 12:52:27 AM »
Things are looking good there!  I just wanted to chime in that I had pizza at Galleria Umberto (the most famous boston sicilian joint) last week and they were most definitely using mild white cheddar, or a blend using a good amount of it.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2008, 07:42:46 AM »
Jeanette,

That's a great looking pie. Can you tell me what size pan and type of flour you used?

Peter
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 08:53:47 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline zalicious

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 10:18:41 AM »
Scott, thanks for the info about the cheddar. Can you give me any other details on Umberto's Sicilian? Crust, sauce, etc...? Or a description of the Boston area Sicilian pies in general? It's been so long, my memory is hazy. The one I made last night was very good ( hubby kept complimenting it & he's from Salem ) but not quite it. It's one of those cases that I'd recognize it if I bit into it :).

Offline zalicious

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 10:29:09 AM »
Peter, I bought a brand new pan for the occasion :). It's an Oneida Commercial 15x10 cookie sheet. In actuality, the interior bottom measurements were closer to 14.5x9.5. The flour I used was Harvest King Better for Bread.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 10:33:10 AM »
Jeanette,

Did you use one of the dough tools to recalculate the amount of dough for your new pan?

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 10:46:52 AM »
Scott, thanks for the info about the cheddar. Can you give me any other details on Umberto's Sicilian? Crust, sauce, etc...? Or a description of the Boston area Sicilian pies in general? It's been so long, my memory is hazy. The one I made last night was very good ( hubby kept complimenting it & he's from Salem ) but not quite it. It's one of those cases that I'd recognize it if I bit into it :).

The cheddar cheese is really what separates the Boston pies from the ones in the rest of the country.  It may be that they are using 100% mild white cheddar at Umberto's, but a blend with some provolone and mozzarella would be better in my opinion.  I would go about 50/25/25 depending on how sharp the cheddar is (less if it's too sharp), and I would try to stick with a non aged provolone.  The other way to get a similar and possibly better (than boston) flavor would be to use something like 85% mozzarella and 15% aged provolone (the expensive sharp stuff).  Don't worry if the cheese has a bit of a burned look to it, as this is just part of what you get with these dryer (than mozzarella) cheeses.

As far as the crust goes everyone here is still using bromated flour, and it is very difficult to get that texture at home without bromate.  You may be better off "settling" for the lightest fluffiest dough recipe you can manage without it and just be happy that you are eating healthy.

On the sauce, I think that everyone here uses the same standard fresh packed california tomatoes that most of the country uses.  While Escalon does not have a huge presence here, their 6 in 1's will get you very close or better than the typical boston sauce.  If you have access to Pastene products they are also very popular here and the Kitchen Ready variety is almost as good as the 6 in 1 tomatoes.  Add a little salt and oregano and you should be there.

Good luck!

Offline zalicious

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 11:08:54 AM »
Thanks for all that info, Scott.  I do love cheddar in my cheese mixes. I will definitely try that & also the mozz/provolone mix. As I'm still fairly new at making pizza, any guidelines or recipe for making that "lightest, fluffiest dough"? This is what I did:
100% BF
58%  water
.67% IDY
2.5% salt
5%   OO
 I mixed the dough by hand. Kneaded for 5 min. Greased my bowl & let dough sit for a few min. Knead 5 min. Put in fridge overnight. Took out a few hrs before baking. Pressed into oiled ( 1T ) pan. Let rise about 30-45 min. Baked 5 min @ 500* on middle rack. Put on sauce, baked about 4 min. Put on the rest of the toppings & a few dollops of additional sauce, & baked for 5 more min.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 11:43:13 AM »
Jeanette,

The Sicilian dough formulation that fits your 14.5" x 9.5" pan is this one, from the Lehmann dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (0.67%):
Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Total (166.17%):
305.52 g  |  10.78 oz | 0.67 lbs
177.2 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
2.05 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.68 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
7.64 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.37 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
15.28 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.39 tsp | 1.13 tbsp
507.68 g | 17.91 oz | 1.12 lbs | TF = 0.13

What struck me when I examined the above formulation is how close it is to a Papa John's original-crust dough formulation. If you lower the salt to around 1.5% (or even less), add about 4-5% sugar, and skip the final proof in the pan, you should end up with something quite close to a PJ pizza but rectangular and baked in a pan rather than on a screen. The thickness factor is also very close to what PJ uses based on my research. The window of usability of the dough should be around 1-3 days under cold fermentation.

PJ also uses a fresh-pack tomato sauce, but I am pretty sure it is Stanislaus rather than 6-in-1 because of the citric acid in their sauce. For the square inches of your pan, you would use around 11 ounces of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese (diced, if you want to replicate PJ) and around 5.5 ounces of sauce. Their sauce is quite basic, including sunflower oil, sugar, oregano, possibly basil, salt, dehydrated garlic, and olive oil.

Now you can use your pan two ways if you wish--Sicilian and PJ.

Peter


Offline zalicious

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 11:56:59 AM »
Thank you for all that info, Peter. Especially about the sauce & cheese amounts. That's always been a bit hard for me to figure out.
I had actually answered you on your question about whether I had used any of the dough tools, but I must have hit preview instead of post :-[. I used the Lehmann's Dough Calculator to figure out the amounts for a different, older pan ; but then baked it in my new pan instead.
 I'll have to try the PJ version, too, as one of my sons used to work there :).
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 12:06:37 PM by zalicious »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 12:14:53 PM »
Jeanette,

There are no hard and fast rules on the amounts of cheese and sauce to use. It is a matter of personal preference. I extrapolated from the values that I calculated for a 14" PJ original-crust pizza. I took the amount of cheese and sauce per square inch for that size pizza and applied those numbers to the square inches of your pan pizza. It was a simple math exercise. I also assumed that the crust and sauce would be used edge to edge in your pan, rather than inside the rim as is done with a regular pizza.

Peter

Offline zalicious

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Re: Sicilian, round 3
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008, 12:21:17 PM »
Jeanette,

 It was a simple math exercise.

Peter

HA! Simple for you ;D.  I have learned so much from you & others, too numerous to mention, on this forum. I can't thank you enough :-*.