Author Topic: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)  (Read 7292 times)

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Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2008, 11:57:20 PM »
I would try it the other way around, 80% High Gluten + 20% 00. This is the way that I've have found to work best, to my taste, in the high temps of the 2stone Oven.

MWTC  :chef:


Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2008, 12:00:46 AM »
MWTC,

I don't have a 2stone...yet. This batch was baked in a conventional, built-in oven at 700 F. Turned out pretty good. I'm curious how it would hold up in an even higher heat environment.

I thought Willard is using only the "00" type?

Mike
Mike

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Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2008, 12:16:42 AM »
I have been experimenting with flour combinations for a while. The best so far is All Trumps at 80% and 20% Caputo's Pizzeria 00. In the high temp. environment.

Try it.

If you don't have All Trumps, go with KASL. It won't be quite as good, but very close,  you will get the idea.

I think I remember Willard experimenting with flour combinations.

If you can get to 700 degrees you can get much better results with the aforementioned ratio.

MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 12:40:12 AM by MWTC »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2008, 11:26:25 PM »
MWTC,

I'll check out and see where I can get KASL and Caputo around here. I might have to order it online.

At what temperature do you put your pie in? And for how long with that flour combo?

Mike
Mike

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Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2008, 11:51:41 PM »
If you are going to have to search for flour then look for Non-Bromated Unbleached All-Trumps High Gluten. And Caputo's Pizzeria OO.

I allow the oven to preheat from 25-30 minutes. This brings the stone to aprox. 700 degrees. If I get past 750, the pizza bakes just a little to quick. The results are diminished. It finishes at aprox. the 3.5 minute mark, sometimes a little longer depending on the amount of toppings. You develop a feel for it with the amount of bakes through the passage of time. And of course, your attention to detail. I'm getting good results at the 650 mark but its begging for just a little more heat. I am baking in a 1-/2 inch tin plated steel pan.

The addition of dough dressing on the outer rim before the bake is another improvement in the final results.

MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 11:53:21 PM by MWTC »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2008, 12:19:32 AM »
MWTC,

I'll give your dough formula a shot over the weekend. It's sounds something testing.

I bake my pizzas entirely on the stone, though. I have no experience with pans. I'm wondering if that will influence the outcome negatively?

Mike

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2008, 12:56:50 AM »
MWTC,

I am currently letting a dough rise, using your formula. I'm also seriously thinking about making a LBE at this point. A 2stone is a little out of my reach right now.

I'll let you know how it turned out.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2008, 11:23:55 AM »
I would go directly to the 2stone Oven.

You won't be sorry.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline 2stone

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2008, 01:04:50 PM »
Essen1,

very, very, nice looking pie!

willard
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 06:57:55 PM by 2stone »


Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2008, 01:06:05 PM »
MWTC,

I just punched the dough down, after an overnight rise at room temp, and divided it into 4 balls, which I'm letting rise again at room temp, to be used tonight during Hockey night. The dough seemed more dense than my previous ones. I also eliminated the oil this time.

I have no doubt that the 2stone is great. I just don't have the additional funds right now. Tax time is looming, dammit. ;)  But for roughly a B. Franklin, I'm able to get somewhat close to a 2stone.

Mike
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 01:12:42 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2008, 01:07:50 PM »
Willard,

that was baked at roughly 700 F in a conventional & old built-in oven. It's no comparison, though, to what your 2stone spits out!  ;D

Mike
Mike

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Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2008, 02:42:22 PM »
If its more dense, I would adjust the hydration. I use 62%, plus I add 1 tbs of Olive Oil to a batch of 1054 grams of flour. I would error on the side of to moist than to dry.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2008, 05:18:18 PM »
MWTC,

It's basically the same formula as this one here, with 5 grams more water and no oil. We'll see how it is after today's second rise.


Total:

835 gr. Flour ( 625 gr. of BF / 210 gr. "00" )
550 gr. Water ( 100 F )
4 gr. ADY
25 gr. Salt

==========

Poolish:

417 gr. Flour ( 312 BF / 105 gr. "00" )
417 gr. Water ( 105 F )
4 gr. ADY

==========

417 gr. Flour ( 312 BF / 105 gr. "00" )
80 gr. Water ( cold )
25 gr. Salt


Mike
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2008, 10:21:35 PM »
It should be ok, 65% hydration is more than I use. Bread flour won't be as good as high glutten. I would use a long cold ferment (48 hours minimum) and a hour counter rise before baking.

The first total shows a 65% hydration but if you add your 417 grams of water of the poolish to the 80 grams in your next total it is only a total of 497 grams of water which equals 59% hydration, maybe thats why its "more dense". But your total = 65%, one must be wrong?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 10:38:57 PM by MWTC »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2008, 10:36:20 PM »
I used to do that, but with a different formula and mixed results.

Well, I got 4 balls out of this batch and put two in the fridge tonight, to be used on the weekend. I'm kind of anxious to see what the difference will be, in terms of manageability and consistency.

The thing is, I can't find any high-gluten flour around here. I checked with Whole Foods, Molly Stone's and a bunch of other so called specialty food stores, but nada. I guess ordering it online is my only option for now.

I'll post some pics later of tonight's pies.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline MWTC

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2008, 10:42:02 PM »
I just edited the last post. Check it out to see if I am seeing things wrong.


This pizza was made with 80% All Trumps and 20% Caputo's Pizzeria Flour.


MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 12:24:16 AM by MWTC »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2008, 02:38:25 AM »
You're right.

I got my numbers wrong.  ???  It should read and be 133gr. of water in the last part. Thanks for pointing that out!

Note to Self: Double check your calculations!

Either way, the pies turned out great. Had a couple of buddies over for some Sharks Hockey, Beer and Pizza and they loved it. After the first pie, I asked for some suggestions and both said a little less salt in the crust would overall improve the otherwise good crust, perhaps increase the amount of sauce by a 1/4 cup, and add a little more cheese.

The second one was topped with a generous amount of sauce & cheese, left out the pinch of salt, and topped it with mushrooms and olives and baked it for around 5 mins, because of a lower temperature.

Some pics...


« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 02:40:55 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2008, 02:39:56 AM »
And the second pie...


Mike

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Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2008, 08:00:53 AM »
Great Pies!!! I'm still amazed at the crust and they way you are getting it to cook in a regular oven.. Are you still using the "tricked" method.. have you improved on that area. I know before you said the towel or cloth was starting to burn in the oven... please explain..! I would like to do this in my oven buy the temp probe in my oven is down close to the lower element.. I'm afraid of whatever I use catching fire...

Offline mmarston

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2008, 08:31:15 AM »
I have been using this version of the Di Fara clone in my 2Stone at 800-850 with great success for a few months now.

Flour 100%  75% 00/25% KASL
Water 62%
IDY .4%
Salt 2%

tf .08 for both

Proof yeast in water for 10 minutes, add to other ingredients and mix in KA for 7 minutes. Room temp rise for 1- 2 hours, punch down, fold, divide into balls and then into the fridge for 1-2 days. Rise on counter for 2 hours and bake.
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry

Offline Essen1

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Re: Last night's dough w/tricked oven (cont.)
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2008, 12:53:43 PM »
MT,

yes, I still use the same method with my oven. Last night, the glass of my thermometer broke. I guess it was too hot for it.

My temp gauge sits in the upper left corner, not on the bottom. In your case, I don't know if I'd use that method if my gauge would sit so close to the heating element. The towel didn't actually burn, it simply fell apart when I unwrapped it from the foil. I haven't checked the one I used last night, yet.

MM,

I had good success with both combinations, but must say that I liked the latest one a bit better.

Mike
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 01:10:22 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein