Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 179396 times)

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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #125 on: February 16, 2009, 03:24:00 PM »
Lou Dog ,
Really nice! The boys will be proud! I tried this and loved it too, waiting to go for it again. I too may up the anty on the cornmeal next time.
GREAT WORK!
John
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Offline jimmy33

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #126 on: February 20, 2009, 11:47:59 AM »
BTB or Anyone else that can help!!!
     Can i use a combination of olive oil and butter instead of corn oil?  If I use more oil or butter than you recommend what does that do to the dough? Can I use a bread maker to make the dough?

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #127 on: February 20, 2009, 01:39:58 PM »
Can I use a combination of olive oil and butter instead of corn oil?  I don't see why not, but I've never tried it as I prefer either corn oil or vegetable oil. There's only one way to tell .  .  .  experiment. Suggest using regular olive oil as opposed to the virgin variety as it imparts too much of an olive flavor, I think.  Also be cautious using too much butter and remember that since butter is approx. 16% water (I think I read that here somewhere) to cut back a little on the amount of water you use.  I've also learned to melt and cool the butter before adding it into the dough mixture, rather than churning in softened butter like I used to do.  (Churning in softened butter has a tendency to lead to overworking the dough, which is inadvisable.) 

If I use more oil or butter than you recommend what does that do to the dough?  Not sure on how to answer that.  This can become a fairly oily dough, which deep dish pizza often is, so just be prepared to deal with a very oily dough.  I just made a deep dish dough ball a few hours ago and added about a teaspoon and a half of melted and cooled butter along with 4% olive oil and 18% vegetable oil and it was a very oily dough ball, so I just kept adding flour a little more at a time until it formed a nice drier (a little more so) dough ball.  It rose nicely after 2 hours and I punched it down and looks like it will make for a really nice pizza.  While I like a little butter added to the mix, I don't like the taste of the  dough with too much butter.  But one has to try and compare to see for themselves.

Can I use a bread maker to make the dough?  I know many on this site do so, but I am not a big advocate of using the bread machine.  For one thing, you are likely to way overwork the dough resulting in finished pizza dough that is much too bread-like and not the biscuit-like texture that classic deep dish style is.  Kneading the dough for a very short period of time (est. 1 to 2 minutes) is preferred, as many have given testament to. 

You also asked about Malnati's.  Do not use corn flour, as they do not, but they do use a lot of corn oil in their dough, however     --BTB.

Offline koloa101

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2009, 09:22:02 AM »
hi,
can i substitute the ADY with IDY and use the same percentage? i plan on trying this recipe this weekend.

thank you!

Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2009, 03:11:51 PM »
Koloa,
I think it takes less IDY, there are conversion tables somwhere for that or use the Dough caculator tool and check off ADY complete the formula then change that to IDY should change amounts for you? I am also having another go of it this weekend adding a bit more semolina this time. The corn oil is key also.  Are you doing sausage? spinach? pepperoni? and Remeber its ok if the dough seems oil, it is. Good luck ! Lets compare notes/pics on Monday ;D
Have Fun
John
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2009, 04:02:58 PM »
can i substitute the ADY with IDY and use the same percentage? i plan on trying this recipe this weekend.

Technically, for whichever of the dough formulations you decide to use you should reduce the amount of ADY by about 25%, by weight, to get the amount of IDY to use. That is the number you would use in one of the dough calculating tools to adjust all of the ingredient quantities (the differences should be slight). The conversion table that John is referring to is at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm.

Peter

Offline koloa101

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #131 on: March 01, 2009, 10:12:29 PM »
hey all,
here is my attempt at my first deep dish. i am glad my first try is consider a success thanks to this thread! very tasty pie and good enough to serve! i had some trouble at first shaping so the crust had too much of the dough; therefore a bit thin in the center. also, something in my ingredients contain way too much water. the first slice a bunch of water came leaking out. it may of been from the spinach/sausage/or redpack tomatoes?

i followed BTB's recipe posted on page 3 using all trumps and 25% semolina, also used the yeast chart Peter posted earlier to convert ADY to IDY. This pie was a sausage/green pepper/onion/spinach/mozzarella/whole peeled plum red pack tomatoes/ and a sprinkle of Parmigiano-Reggiano...it was awesome  :D



Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2009, 07:47:55 AM »
Sweet Koloa!
Did you use fresh Mozz.? and how much ? or just eye it. I think the spinach could have some moisture, but most I think is in the sauce. I drained the 6-in1s' for a few hours before using. Also when shaping I start with the ball in the middle press it out, wait a few minutes, press some more, then wait some more. Repeat this until I have the whole base of pan covered with an extra rim at the edge then press it up the side. Did you use anything on the bottom of your pan? Oil, crisco? I used a bit of crisco, but nothing on the sides to keep dough from pulling off.
Great job! BTB will be proud. Goes quick once cut eh! ;D
John
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Offline koloa101

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #133 on: March 02, 2009, 10:21:18 AM »
thanks JConk007.

for the bottom, i used a little 50/50 mixture of flour and semolina to coat the dough ball right before stretching out. i also buttered up the pan. for the sauce, i used a can of whole peeled plum tomatoes. i took out each tomatoe, deseeded and then blended with a little olive oil and spices. from the sounds of it, it seems that the sauce is the cause for the much water content. next time, ill drain more and give that a try. also, yes i did use fresh bella gioso mozzerella, about 1/2 a lb.


Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #134 on: March 02, 2009, 11:33:00 AM »
I agree with John, Koloa, great deep dish first try.  Looks very tasty, indeed, altho I'm not much of a spinach fan.  Coating the pan with butter often leads to a darker outer color, but it looked fine to me as I like it a little browned with some burnt edges.  Very nice job with the tomatoes.  I loved the appearance and consistency of the tomatoes and the "dabs" of fresh mozzarella, altho I suspect that the great tasting fresh Bella Gioso is the primary source of excess water in the pizza.  While a little of such provides some very good tasting aspects to the pizza, none of the great classic Chicago deep dish pizzerias use "fresh" mozzarella on their products.  Not that it isn't good tasting, but just because of watering problems I think (and probably because of cost $$, too).  A half a pound may be too much (assuming in addition to other cheeses, whole milk, skimmed, etc.)  And tomatoes need to be drained somehat, also.  Just experiment a little and see how it goes next time.  But your did a terrific job on you "first."  (Some things are always nicer the "first time," eh.)         --BTB

Offline koloa101

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #135 on: March 11, 2009, 12:05:33 PM »
wholly mackeral, what a difference in texture and taste with using AP flour. also, after i cooked the sausage, used a paper towel to absorb the excess moisture. i also used preshredded maggio mozzerella. i noticed the pie had much less runny water after the first slice. this is definitely my favorite pie now! i was running low on sauce too.




Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2009, 02:57:45 PM »
Koloa,
Really Nice ! Glad the AP worked out for you It appears you were  able to get a much thinner edge / rim side as well. What % semolina did you use on this one? or just change to AP? I am in Hilton Head SC so no posts or good pizza  :'( that I know of, a soggy NY style with bromated flour is all I can  find back to the fish I quess. There is a brick oven place Called Venti,  opening soon in a strip mall but it has been opening for over a year? glad I am not paying rent on that one!
keep em comin Koloa!
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Offline tsmys

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #137 on: March 12, 2009, 05:02:11 PM »
I noticed much discussion of sausage on this thread so I thought I'd add this technique to the discussion.  This is a recipe I found on another site.  I haven't made the sausage from scratch yet but I have been nuking store brand Italian sausage as suggested and just slicing the "loafs" to place on the pizza.  You don't kneed to get the sausage cooked all the way through.  This method does a good job of de-greasing the sausage and slicing it gives it a very different texture.  I even tried mixing a 1# chub of Italian with a 1# chub of Hot breakfast sausage once and it was pretty tasty also.

Italian Sausage (Chicago Style)
By David Aleksy

4 lbs. pork shoulder (or pre-ground from the grocery in a pinch)
4 tsp. salt
2 tsp. freshly ground black pepper
4 tsp. fennel seed
Red pepper to taste, about 1 tsp.
 

Grind pork and mix in spices. Do not saute the sausage, as it hardens it. Try forming the sausage into 6-inch oblong loaves and microwave them on the defrost setting until the pink barely disappears. Let the loaves cool, then break them into bite sized chunks. Freeze and use as you desire.
 

Offline foodblogger

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2009, 09:32:22 AM »
I'm going to give this one a shot tonight.   :pizza:

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2009, 10:24:48 AM »
tsmys, while I've been tempted at times, I haven't tried to make my own sausage yet, and don't know if I ever will -- as I have so much "on my plate" already to try to accomplish -- but your recipe is very interesting.  Good Italian (or other) sausage is sometimes hard to come by, but around me I have some really great Italian deli's that make their own brand of homemade Italian sausages that are terrific. 

Also, for pizza making purposes, good sausage almost never needs to be degreased, like pepperoni does.  I almost never get a watery pizza that's attributed to the sausage.  Instead it is always either the tomatoes (not drained enough) or "fresh" wet mozzarella (sometimes even whole milk, but rarely) that is the chief culprit when a "too wet" or watery pizza is noticed IMO. 

Almost all Chicago pizzerias, especially the classic famous deep dish pizzerias (like Gino's East, for example), always (repeat . . . always) put the sausage on without pre-cooking it.  Overcooked sausage isn't very tasty -- at least to me -- and I've never made a pizza in which the sausage had turned out "undercooked."  To me, "nuking" sausage would not be an option.  And I know many people like it, but it would be a rare Chicago pizzeria that would have "hot"sausage as their mainstay sausage option.  But once in a while . . . it fits the bill.

Koloa, your latest pictures showed that you are getting really good at making deep dish pizzas.  AP flour is the way to go with deep dish, I think, but others have different tastes and have been successful at using other kinds, too.  I'm glad you pinched or crimped the edges or rim of the pizza as you did, as I think you'll enjoy the taste and texture of it even more.

Good luck guys . . . and/or gals . .  with your pizzamaking adventures.  You'll see how much fun it is.          --BTB

Offline tsmys

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2009, 04:14:24 PM »
BTB,

I understand your feelings about sausage, I really do.  In fact, my next Chicago pizza will have a big ol' pattie of raw sausage on it!  I was just pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a dog, so to speak.  With all due respect I feel I must speak up and defend my friend the microwave.  Properly used it is an amazing tool.  Many people, (present company excluded, I'm sure), don't get it that the power on a microwave is adjustable.  It can be turned down to the point where it will gently heat or cook food without turning it into something inedible.  For example, when I precook sausage, I use power level 3 (your oven may differ). This results in a sausage pattie that's not hard and dry like sausage cooked in a pan but soft, moist, and delicious.  Unfortunately, BTB not all of us are as fortunate as you in having a reliable source for our sausage.  Due to location or cost, some of us just have to make do.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #141 on: March 13, 2009, 04:27:13 PM »
I understand tymys.  We each got to do our thing.  Here's a sausage pattie I did for a pizza a while ago.  It cooks thoroughly at 450 degrees for 20 to 30 minutes on the pizza.  Good luck with your next.   --BTB


Offline tsmys

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #142 on: March 13, 2009, 08:23:38 PM »
BTB,

Thanks for the kind words :D  If the whole pattie works as well as I hope it will, I promise I'll not use any other technique!  I first came to this forum to learn how to make a pie as close to Gino's as I could.  I recently lost focus and tried to make a Lehmann NY pie, but I'm ready to get back on course.  It sounds like you have the Chicago pizza mastered.  I've been studying your thread and have learned a lot.  Thank you for helping everyone else!

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #143 on: March 14, 2009, 10:11:21 AM »
Sometimes I like a deep dish pizza with a sausage patty, like they generally make it at the famous Gino's East Pizzeria in Chicago.  But then at other times I like the sausage spread out a little.  Use of the patty is best for "sausage lovers" (which I often am).  It's purpose is to provide "a piece of sausage in every bite."  I hate ordering sausage on a pizza at a restaurant and then finding that there is only a little piece of sausage every 2 or 3 inches or so.  With so little sausage, you basically have a cheese pizza mostly and to me, that's generally not what I wanted. 
 
On the other hand, however, I like the style of deep dish pizza at the famous Lou Malnati's, too, and while many think they, too, put on a sausage patty whenever you order sausage as an ingredient, it is not so.  They put a lot of little pieces or chunks of sausage in the pan -- on top of the cheese -- and it often looks like a patty from some of the pictures on the TV shows, but it isn't.  Their "default" is to put a lot on, but you can request a lighter amount of sausage at the restaurant to match your tastes. 
 
I often like to leave gaps when applying the sausage in pieces or chunks on my homemade pizzas so that the cheese can bubble up to the top of the pizza and give it that special delectable effect, like I often find at Malnati's.  With a sausage patty, that generally does not occur, altho it had with some of my home made pizzas whenever I would put a few pieces of fresh mozzarella on top of the sausage patty. 

Some pictures of an earlier pizza I made below will hopefully show what I mean about the gaps and allowing room for the cheese, which is mostly below the sausage, to bubble up in places to the top of the pizza.  Best to experiment to see what you and your family and friends like the best.  In the end . . . it's all good.                            --BTB

Offline mkc

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #144 on: March 14, 2009, 11:53:13 AM »
I made a 25% semolina, 12" version once again.  Still using my 12" Lodge skillet. 

I noticed some difficulty working the oils into the dough after the initial rest, so I dumped everything into the food processor with the plastic dough blade and whizzed it just until the oil was incorporated.  The result seemed to be a much more "delicate" feeling dough.

This was also felt when patting it into the pan.  Definitely a lighter-feeling dough.

I topped the dough with 1/2 lb Kroger Private Selection mozzarella slices then 1/4 lb PS provolone slices.  On top of that went 2/3 lb of Sprouts hot chicken Italian sausage made into a 12" patty (raw), followed by slices of Ezzo pepperoni (nuked 22 seconds between paper towels to remove grease).  Then I added 10 ounces sliced mushrooms and 5 ounces frozen chopped spinach that I'd sauteed with minced garlic until almost completely dry andcooled.  Sauce was a 28 ounce can of Great Value crushed tomatoes that had been drained for 3 hours  mixed with Penzey's pizza seasoning, salt, garlic powder, white pepper, and a blop of honey, and finally a healthy sprinkle of grated parm.

450 for 1/2 hour with the pan on a preheated stone, let rest 15 minutes before cutting.

It was fabulous!!!  Thanks BTB!!!

Michelle

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #145 on: March 14, 2009, 12:17:24 PM »
Michelle, that looks really, really good.  I'm totally inexperienced with using an iron skillet, but many people here use one very successfully.  And I'm blown away at the use of a food processor.  I sometimes use mine for thin cracker crusts, but never for a Chicago Style deep dish as it would seem to overwork the dough.  But . . . your's looks fantastic!  And that's what counts.  Good to know as I may try that one day.  A 28 oz. can of  crushed tomatoes would normally seem almost twice as much as needed, but the pictures don't seem to show that.  The slices look super as is (love that cheese melting over the edge of the slice!).  Ingredients sounded good, except I'd leave the spinach to Popeye (altho my wife would probably like it).

Congratulations on your success.  Many more.                 --BTB

Offline mkc

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #146 on: March 14, 2009, 12:37:05 PM »
Thanks - The dough was barely processed after I'd done the regular mixing.  I was worried it would heat up and I didn't want that (or any significant gluten development) so I'd guess 10-15 seconds plus a couple of pulses.  It was definitely a risky test, but apparently one I got lucky with.

I did get a lot of liquid from the tomatoes when I drained them with the mesh sieve, and they dripped for almost the entire 3 hours of draining.  If I had to guess (because I didn't measure), I'd say it removed close to 3/4 cup of liquid.  Last time I'd used a 15 ounce can and it wasn't quite enough sauce to go around; I'd had to add a little extra plain tomato sauce.

I used the iron skillet because it's the closest thing I have to a deep dish pan, unless I want to make a 9" pie with one of my cake pans.... 

The best part is that with just 2 people, we have leftovers!

(oh, and the spinach was just because I'm in a freezer cleanout mode and it helped "balance" the use of pepperoni.....)

Michelle

Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #147 on: March 14, 2009, 07:44:14 PM »
Very Very Very Nice Michelle!
I am back from Vacation eating a grandamas pie right now. So I tune in and see this great looking deep dish!!  Maybe spinach only for me too, or just all meat, a curious combo but we all have to clean the freezer sometime! That picture with the cheese WOW ! A real Contender here BTB ;)
John
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 08:38:47 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline foodblogger

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #148 on: March 15, 2009, 06:14:16 PM »
I give the recipe an enthusiastic thumbs up.  This is going into my pizza stable.  I made the 20% dough.

Offline MarleyEds

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #149 on: March 16, 2009, 05:10:10 PM »
Man, every time I read this thread, I get hungry   :chef:

Has anyone other than BTB tried a semolina percentage over 25% yet?  If so, what was your thoughts?