Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 152892 times)

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #600 on: January 20, 2012, 08:53:42 AM »
Is it possible to do this without a kitchen scale?
Sure, the main ingredients that a scale helps with are the liquids, like water and oils, and the flours, including semolina.  You should get one of those little 4 or 5 oz. glasses which have markings for the number of ounces on the side (supermarkets, K-mart, Walmart, BB&B, etc).  For each of the liquids you can roughly approximate what you need from the recipe (whichever one you're using).  For the flour, you can easily search the internet for conversion of a cup of all purpose flour to weights and apply some basic math to determine how many cups and fractions thereof you'll need for the recipe.  For instance, one site says that 1 cup of all purpose flour weighs 4.41 ounces.  Other sites and other kinds of flour show different weights, but that's a fair one to use.  While the semolina may be a little different, I would just use the same weight for your purpose.

For the rest of the ingredients, I think teaspoons and tablespoons are fine to use.  Good luck and hope things come out to your satisfaction.

                                                                                        --BTB
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 08:59:35 AM by BTB »


Offline BDoggPizza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #601 on: January 20, 2012, 03:20:53 PM »
I have been making amazing Chicago Style pizzas in my home for a few years now.  Thanks to all the hard work put into this site with recipes from DKM, Loowaters, BTB, Pete-zza and others I am 100% satisfied with my current recipe.  Thanks guys!  With that said.  Its time for a new challenge.  I would love to try BTB's recipe here that is listed over 31 pages of posts.  That's the problem.  I was wondering if anyone, or BTB, could post BTB's current recipe & process?  That would be great!  Looking forward to trying a new recipe. 

Thanks,
BDogg

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #602 on: January 20, 2012, 05:51:12 PM »
I have been making amazing Chicago Style pizzas in my home for a few years now.  Thanks to all the hard work put into this site with recipes from DKM, Loowaters, BTB, Pete-zza and others I am 100% satisfied with my current recipe.  Thanks guys!  With that said.  Its time for a new challenge.  I would love to try BTB's recipe here that is listed over 31 pages of posts.  That's the problem.  I was wondering if anyone, or BTB, could post BTB's current recipe & process?  That would be great!  Looking forward to trying a new recipe. 

Thanks,
BDogg


I am trying this recently posted BTB recipe and workflow as we speak:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg157947.html#msg157947

John

Offline skunker

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #603 on: January 20, 2012, 10:23:59 PM »
While waiting for my supplies to come in the mail so I can make a "BTB" pizza, I decided to do a practice run and make a Papa Del's pizza (recipe from front page of this website). It did not go well. The pan I am using is a 9" Chicago Metallic Bakalon. I added crisco to the pan (butter flavored) and also the sides and it burned! The pizza was not even ready to be taken out. I had placed the pizza on the lowest rack in the oven at 425 for 40mins.

Anyone have any ideas why the burn? At first, I thought it was my pan that burned! Black soot around some of the edge of the pizza. Too embarrassed to post a pic  :(

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #604 on: January 21, 2012, 08:33:35 AM »
Skunker, I feel so bad about your unsatisfactory experience.  It's a little hard from afar to speculate on what happened since we have no real knowledge of your equipment, circumstances, etc.  I have no idea about the Papa Del's recipe, but your experience sounds unusual.  What kind of oven?  Gas or electric or what?  If electric, do you have those red hot coils viewable in the bottom of the oven?  If so, that is probably one source of the problem.  With such, one needs to put the baking pizza at mid-level or one level down from the mid-level rack.  But with my GE Profile and similar ovens there are no red hot coils in view and the bottom rack (or one up) is the best rack level to bake a deep dish at.  Here's dumb question, I know, but you did let the oven warm up for 30 to 60 minutes prior to baking the pizza, right?  I'm sure you did.

While I don't think so, it is possible that way too much Crisco was used.  But that seemingly shouldn't have been the source of the burning like you described.  BTW, one shouldn't lubricate the "sides" of the pan with Crisco or oil, just the bottom of the deep dish pan.  I often wipe the sides of the lubricated pan with a paper towel, but that's a minor thing.  And your pan was a solid piece pan, right?  Give it some thought and let us know of any other relevant details to help us help you on this as this just seems to be peculiar.

                                                                                              --BTB

Offline skunker

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #605 on: January 21, 2012, 09:58:12 AM »
Skunker, I feel so bad about your unsatisfactory experience.  It's a little hard from afar to speculate on what happened since we have no real knowledge of your equipment, circumstances, etc.  I have no idea about the Papa Del's recipe, but your experience sounds unusual.  What kind of oven?  Gas or electric or what?  If electric, do you have those red hot coils viewable in the bottom of the oven?  If so, that is probably one source of the problem.  With such, one needs to put the baking pizza at mid-level or one level down from the mid-level rack.  But with my GE Profile and similar ovens there are no red hot coils in view and the bottom rack (or one up) is the best rack level to bake a deep dish at.  Here's dumb question, I know, but you did let the oven warm up for 30 to 60 minutes prior to baking the pizza, right?  I'm sure you did.

While I don't think so, it is possible that way too much Crisco was used.  But that seemingly shouldn't have been the source of the burning like you described.  BTW, one shouldn't lubricate the "sides" of the pan with Crisco or oil, just the bottom of the deep dish pan.  I often wipe the sides of the lubricated pan with a paper towel, but that's a minor thing.  And your pan was a solid piece pan, right?  Give it some thought and let us know of any other relevant details to help us help you on this as this just seems to be peculiar.

                                                                                              --BTB

Excellent questions. I think the evidence is somewhere in your investigation. Also, I was a little impatient since I was hungry and it was getting late in the evening. Bad combo!

I have a GE electric stove with bottom and top heat coils. I put the pizza on the lowest rack possible. Next time I will put it one rack up:) Interestingly, the side of the pizza burned, not the bottom (see attached pic). This was a total learning experience for me as I've never made a pizza from scratch in my life. I also did not warm up for the oven for more than 20mins (I just see the red preheat light go off meaning it's time to cook!) Also, I may have used too much Crisco (it was easy getting the pizza out of the pan) and definitely greased the sides of the pan , so I guess that's not a good idea. Yes, a solid 9x1.5 piece pan from Chicago Metallics.

Good thing it was just a test run using some old cans I had around the pantry (the tomato puree was nasty out of the can). Next one is gonna be the recipe from this thread. Have a good weekend!




Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #606 on: January 21, 2012, 05:23:04 PM »
From the looks of that photo, you probably used too much sauce, which likely overflowed to the edges and burned when the dough rose during baking, but BTB is also right about not greasing the sides of the pan.

Some of us actually prefer a little bit of char on our pizzas, so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it.
Also, if you don't have an oven thermometer to check the temp of your oven, you might want to pick one up.

The pizza looks good to me! :-)  :pizza:

Excellent questions. I think the evidence is somewhere in your investigation. Also, I was a little impatient since I was hungry and it was getting late in the evening. Bad combo!

I have a GE electric stove with bottom and top heat coils. I put the pizza on the lowest rack possible. Next time I will put it one rack up:) Interestingly, the side of the pizza burned, not the bottom (see attached pic). This was a total learning experience for me as I've never made a pizza from scratch in my life. I also did not warm up for the oven for more than 20mins (I just see the red preheat light go off meaning it's time to cook!) Also, I may have used too much Crisco (it was easy getting the pizza out of the pan) and definitely greased the sides of the pan , so I guess that's not a good idea. Yes, a solid 9x1.5 piece pan from Chicago Metallics.

Good thing it was just a test run using some old cans I had around the pantry (the tomato puree was nasty out of the can). Next one is gonna be the recipe from this thread. Have a good weekend!

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 05:26:49 PM by vcb »
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #607 on: January 22, 2012, 01:29:45 PM »
I want to wholeheartedly thank BTB for his contributions here. I followed the following thread post, which is very comprehensive, to the letter. The only variation was that I adjusted the yeast for fresh yeast and a 2 day cold ferment.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg157947.html#msg157947

I have never attempted this style of pizza, and my understanding of how it's done really has only come from this thread and the opening sequence of an America's Test Kitchen episode with Lou Malnati making the pizza. I have not been to Chicago. The only time I have had this style of pizza was at Uno's when I was a kid.

The cheese is Boar's Head whole milk mozzarella, the sauce is Sclafani crushed tomatoes with pinches of sugar, pepper, hot red chili flakes, and fresh oregano added. The sausage is pork shoulder with salt, pepper, and fennel (apparently NOT a Malnatis addition). Flour is KAAP and Bob's Red Mill semolina. Baked at 425 for 30 minutes on the middle rack with convection. I am just floored at how good this tastes. My wife and I were so skeptical that the sausage would cook - we even took a friendly bet (it did!). But the flavor of the ingredients and the crust is outstanding. The crust is flaky and tender, with big, buttery flavor. I could only eat a small slice though, as it is very rich. One is going with me to a playoff game this afternoon.

I am after some critique: is there anything glaring that I am not doing correctly? Anything you would do differently? I understand that Malnatis may not use semolina, but is there something that might make it more authentic as it applies to that pizzeria? Any feedback appreciated.

John

Offline skunker

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #608 on: January 22, 2012, 11:23:06 PM »
That looks GOOD! But, you didn't include the MONEY SHOT! Ya know, teh one where you slice a piece and show the cheese string and all....

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #609 on: January 25, 2012, 08:08:03 AM »
Great job and pictures, John.  Was that the Patriots playoff game you were talking about?  They are awesome this year and may get their revenge against the Giants.

I am after some critique: is there anything glaring that I am not doing correctly? Anything you would do differently? I understand that Malnatis may not use semolina, but is there something that might make it more authentic as it applies to that pizzeria? Any feedback appreciated.


Everything looked great.  While maybe only important to me, here are a couple of things that I do differently.  I would never use my convection oven feature for the entire bake.  Sometime near the end to "brown up" the top a bit.  Convection is just hot blown air and it cooks up the top outside faster than the inside of the pizza oftentimes, which I haven't found desireable.  And I don't think it heats the bottom of the pan as well as a deck or other ovens would.

I would crimp the edge of the pizza a little more, esp. pushing it further up the sides, maybe even right before putting it into the oven, altho one's fingers may get messy but what the heck.  We're after a good tasting crust.  And I use finely grated cheese on top as almost the last ingredient (next to basil/oregano).  Yours looked like shredded cheese.  Finely grated cheese is what is traditionally used, but who the heck cares.  It's all good anyway, right?

These small differences are insignificant and it appears you did a great job.  So if you ever want to try what I suggest, its up to you, but you already have it all together it seems.  

Long ago I came across a source that claimed Malnati's crust had a small amount of semolina as part of the flour blend.  And that's what got me started with experimenting with it.  I do it both ways oftentimes just for variety.  Check out Ed's website and his recipe, too, and try it out (http://www.realdeepdish.com).  Good luck with your future Chicago Style experiences.  I see that you are a veteran of sorts of many different styles, so you'll adapt well easily, I'm sure.

                                                                                           --BTB
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 03:42:40 PM by BTB »


Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #610 on: January 25, 2012, 04:13:28 PM »
Skunker, I've been thinking a bit about the picture of your pizza.  While it doesn't look too bad, a char is often times desired among gourmet pizza connoisseurs.  And I do like a "chunkier" tomato sauce than you used (but strangely generally hate chunky sauces . . . strange, I know).  But viewing your picture, it just appears way too "full" of ingredients (cheese and whatever).  What was the depth of the pan?  While I'm not certain, suggest to cut back a lot on the ingredient contents just as an experiment.  Who knows, you may be real happy with the results. 

Mine and Ed's examples in photos on this site show the top of the edge or rim of the deep dish pizza to be a quarter to a half an inch higher (or even higher) than the pizza contents, but yours appears to be a real "full" equivalent height.  It may be just optics.  But still, it appears you did a beautiful job and you will do even much better in just a little time.  Thanks for sharing.

                                                                                                    --BTB

Add -- I unfortunately tend to focus only on the contents of the pizza crusts and don't give much information on the amount and/or weight of the other ingredients.  I always left that to readers thinking and conclusions and while I still will do that, I think I have to focus a little more on the amount of ingredients to put on top of that great pizza crust that we all work so very hard on.  The crust is the most important part, but . . . there are some other important parts, too.  But the edges of the pizza in your photo seemed to show a nice "flaky" edged crust, which many would consider highly desirable.  Did it taste as good as it looked?   

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #611 on: January 26, 2012, 10:41:29 AM »
This is just to further illustrate what I mean about the pizza being "full" of ingredients above.  The picture below is from Malnati's website.  Note especially how tall the edge or rim is over the contents of the ingredients in the middle of the pizza.  I think Skunker's example was overly "full" of whatever contents there were, . . . or the edge of the crust wasn't pushed up high enough . . . or the pan was not a very high one.  Suggest a traditional 2" deep pan.  Just a thought as we're all looking for getting the best out of our pizzamaking, right?

                                                                                        --BTB      ;D
Add -- the pizza crusts served at Malnati's great restaurants are usually always darker or browner than those illustrated on their websites and marketing literature.  I guess the lighter crust color is presumed to be better for marketing purposes, but I assure you that a little browner coloring is most highly desired.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 10:52:33 AM by BTB »

Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #612 on: January 26, 2012, 10:53:52 AM »
This is just to further illustrate what I mean about the pizza being "full" of ingredients above.  The picture below is from Malnati's website.  Note especially how tall the edge or rim is over the contents of the ingredients in the middle of the pizza.  I think Skunker's example was overly "full" of whatever contents there were, . . . or the edge of the crust wasn't pushed up very high . . . or the pan was not a very high one.  Suggest a traditional 2" deep pan.  Just a thought as we're all looking for getting the best out of our pizzamaking, right?

                                                                                        --BTB      ;D


Skunker, It looks like you may be using a pie pan instead of a cake pan.
I've found that 9" pie pans are not the best for these recipes; they are very slanted and don't have very high rims.
You more than likely will have to reduce the amount of ingredients you use compared to a larger straight sided pan.
Try a 9" cake pan next time if you must make a pizza that small. I like the heavy duty dark non-stick wilton pans, like the kind I used in my toaster oven:

http://www.realdeepdish.com/2011/02-12-toaster-oven-deep-dish-food-pr0n/


-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
http://www.realdeepdish.com/
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #613 on: January 26, 2012, 11:13:44 AM »
Never thought of some of the things that Ed mentioned above.  I love to make great pies (i.e. apple, lemon, etc),  . . . and I do.  But I would never use a regular pie pan for a pizza . .  eh . . pie.  Too slanted or tapered, I think.  While some tapered pans are . . . OK, or  . . . alright, too tapered a pan -- like most of my regular real pie pans -- are not . . . eh . .  good.  I have one or two tapered deep dish pizza pans, but they are definitely not as tapered as my regular pie pans.  I think the larger tapered pans can work, but I would be hesitant to use them, esp. if shiny colored.

Ed, I hadn't the foggiest idea that you used a "toaster oven."  That surprises me a little.  But as I said before, there is more than one way to "skin a cat."  Opps, . . . there goes my cat again hiding under the bed!

                                                                                  --BTB              :-D

Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #614 on: January 26, 2012, 11:16:32 AM »

Ed, I hadn't the foggiest idea that you used a "toaster oven."  That surprises me a little.  But as I said before, there is more than one way to "skin a cat."  Opps, . . . there goes my cat again hiding under the bed!

                                                                                  --BTB              :-D


Yeah, I was messing with toaster oven deep dish when my oven was out of commission.
The story of that is here: http://www.realdeepdish.com/2011/04-10-new-year-new-oven-plus-pizza-food-pr0n/

 :chef: :pizza:
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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http://facebook.com/realdeepdish/
http://virtualcheeseblogger.com/

Offline skunker

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #615 on: January 26, 2012, 11:20:32 AM »
Guys,
 I'm using a deep dish 9" CHicago Metallic pizza pan from here: http://www.akitchen.com/store/product221.html

You're saying that you recommend a straight sided pan instead of this one?

Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #616 on: January 26, 2012, 11:32:12 AM »
Guys,
 I'm using a deep dish 9" CHicago Metallic pizza pan from here: http://www.akitchen.com/store/product221.html

You're saying that you recommend a straight sided pan instead of this one?


OK, a slanted Chicago Metallic is a bit better than a typical pie pan, but yes, a straight sided pan will probably help you with the ingredient overflow problem unless you cut back on some ingredients to compensate.
http://www.chicagometallicbakeware.com/ProductDetail/CakeAndPiePans/54/chicagometallic_9inchroundcakepan.aspx

It's also possible that you might just have too much dough in there.

I've found that the conversions to smaller pizzas sometimes leave you with a little more dough than you need.
Pizza is very much a trial and error sport. Keep adjusting until you get what you're looking for, then try to remember what you did so you can repeat it for the next time. :-)


This a a pic of a 9" Chicago Metallic Cake pan that I linked to above:
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
http://www.realdeepdish.com/
http://facebook.com/realdeepdish/
http://virtualcheeseblogger.com/

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #617 on: January 26, 2012, 11:38:51 AM »
That's a beautiful looking pan, Skunker.  I just prefer 2" straight-sided, but I think you will do well with that one.  It doesn't look too tapered at all.  I would just suggest to press and crimp the crust up the unlubricated pan sides all the way to the top of the pan (which is only 1.5") and maybe even slightly higher (cause it will contract over the baking cycle).  But the pan's description sounded interesting and its a good brand.  Please let us know how it turns out.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #618 on: January 26, 2012, 11:51:34 AM »
It's also possible that you might just have too much dough in there.
Regarding the amount of the dough in the recipe to use, I've experienced that at least 1/4th the time (or more) that I have too much dough for the pan.  That "feeling" only comes with experience, I'm afraid.  So I just cut off the excess, throw it into a zip bag and into the refrigerator for use with a small thin crust pizza later.  Don't ever feel you have to use all the dough.  Trust your instincts.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #619 on: January 26, 2012, 12:51:01 PM »
While maybe only important to me, here are a couple of things that I do differently...

BTB - Thanks so much for the insight, I really appreciate it. On my next attempt I will get pre-grated pecorino - I used my micro plane above and it comes out in shreds. And I will crimp the edges so they are higher and thinner, more like your pizzas and the ones I have seen online from Malnati's. And no convection!

I will post pics this weekend.

John