Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 158455 times)

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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #700 on: February 27, 2013, 04:30:37 PM »
Boss man is living the life, he's been down in Vero Beach Florida living on the beach for the past month and has another month to go. :-)

Thanks for the input, I will go with more cheese and lower the temp and keep a closer eye on the crust as it goes.  Also yes there was semolina in there 80/20 KAAP/Semolina.  

That sauce I was using was just a can of crushed tomatoes that I threw some oregano in.  This was a real impromptu pizza so I didn't have the time to do everything the way I wanted or use the tomatoes I wanted.  I usually used Escalon 6-In-1 with some seasoning but I didn't have access to them at this time.  

The reason a bit of cheese is popping through is that I put a few pieces of cheese on top of the meats just to see how it would react and thought I may need a bit more cheese.

Thanks for the input.  Will be back with more after the next round.
Don't go goofing around with the cheese like that.  :) J/K...it does form a barrier and serves a purpose if you are going for an authentic Chicago DD. 

See if you can locate a tin of Cento "certified" whole tomatoes Colin, and use the procedure I outlined...you will be a pizza hero man.  ;)
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Offline spacelooper

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #701 on: February 28, 2013, 08:30:54 AM »
I made my first Deep Dish in about 4 or 5 years last night... I used BTB's recipe on page 25 of this thread. For my first Deep Dish in awhile I think it turned out great. I may have kept it in the oven for a few minutes over what I would have liked but all in all, pretty happy. I had ordered 2 new pans, a 10" and a 12"... the 10" was out of stock so had to used the 12", which maxed out my toaster oven....smile.I also wasn't aware of how big the 12" really was so my tomatoes are a bit skimpy as well.... I only drained one can of crushed and hand crushed a few whole canned maters.... I didn't take a ton of pics but did snap a couple of the finished pie. I will definitely experiment with this crust again.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #702 on: February 28, 2013, 01:29:30 PM »
Mmmm....that's a nice one spacelooper, plenty of cheese!  :drool:
No Premio sausage on there... ???       ;D

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23471.0.html
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Offline spacelooper

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #703 on: February 28, 2013, 04:29:56 PM »
Thanks Chicago Bob.... Cheese pizzas are my fave....not just because I'm vegetarian but I just love the taste of all the basic ingredients...crust,sauce,cheese.... Although one of the very last times I had sausage was actually on a pizza at Gino's East circa 1985...smile

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #704 on: February 28, 2013, 04:33:25 PM »
Gino's East circa 1985....yum.  ;)
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Offline spacelooper

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #705 on: March 13, 2013, 07:28:32 PM »
What is the sweet spot for this dough? Are most guys doing 24 hours? Was curious if a 3 day cold rise is too long? I have read so many threads lately on Deep Dish I can't remember which threads were talking about the 3 day deep dish rise... I was also curious if there are any other fave deep dish crust recipes... have tried this one and the Loowaters Malnati style crust....I like both but am curious to try other faves..... I did try the Stanislaus Tomato Magic ground tomatoes and think that I prefer them to any others that I have had. I also tried the Stella Low Moisture Whole Milk and like is too, however am still searching for my go to Chicago Deep Dish cheese...

thanks again guys,Todd

Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #706 on: March 13, 2013, 08:41:29 PM »
That's a good question, Todd.  I've done different fermentation times for DD and haven't noticed much difference.  I assumed that's because the distinguishing characteristic of DD crust is the high fat content, which overrides the subtleties of longer fermentation times.  But I'd be interested to hear what others have experienced.  FWIW, I don't think three days is too long: I just don't think it shows any real difference between day 1 and day 3 (unlike my thin crust recipe, where a 3 day ferment clearly outperforms a 1 day ferment).  If I had a DD dough that was ready to go and then something came up where I couldn't use it right away, I wouldn't personally hesitate to leave in the fridge for a couple extra days without changing much in terms of flavor or baking behavior.  I think I did a 5 day ferment on the Giordano's dough, and it was fine.

Cheers,
Garvey   

Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #707 on: March 20, 2013, 01:24:06 PM »
Sorry for the delay in getting pics up, just been busy busy.

My experiment with going to a lower temperature did not work out for me.  I went from my normal of 475 down to 450, main issue I ran into was that the cheese was not cooked enough.  Some parts of it were not completely melted.  I also can't figure it out but I'm not happy with my crust for the Lou's style, it just doesn't compare to ones actually from Lou's.  I don't recall my exact recipe but it was something like 20% semolina with a bit of sugar and soft butter.  I know I should really have these details.  My apologies.

Anyways here are the pics, if anything sticks out to you in my process of making the pie let me know so I can improve.  Was in Chicago last weekend for St. Pats and had a Lou's while there and brought 5 back home with me.  Sorry just frustrated thinking about it because the doughs seemed really great, just not the same as the real thing.  For that matter my cheese doesn't seem to taste as good, nor my pepperoni or sauce.  I'm lost lol.

http://imgur.com/a/jSiNE

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #708 on: March 20, 2013, 02:40:55 PM »
Sorry for the delay in getting pics up, just been busy busy.

My experiment with going to a lower temperature did not work out for me.  I went from my normal of 475 down to 450, main issue I ran into was that the cheese was not cooked enough.  Some parts of it were not completely melted.  I also can't figure it out but I'm not happy with my crust for the Lou's style, it just doesn't compare to ones actually from Lou's.  I don't recall my exact recipe but it was something like 20% semolina with a bit of sugar and soft butter.  I know I should really have these details.  My apologies.

Anyways here are the pics, if anything sticks out to you in my process of making the pie let me know so I can improve.  Was in Chicago last weekend for St. Pats and had a Lou's while there and brought 5 back home with me.  Sorry just frustrated thinking about it because the doughs seemed really great, just not the same as the real thing.  For that matter my cheese doesn't seem to taste as good, nor my pepperoni or sauce.  I'm lost lol.

http://imgur.com/a/jSiNE
I think that one would have baked out fine if you had used the foil on top trick.. allow a bit more time to add heat to that cheese. You didn't mention a bake time...and that is going to be an important number for you to monitor and write down as you continue to experiment with bake times and rack positions in your particular oven. These puppies can be tricky to bake.

As for the sauce...try some whole plums instead of the cherries...are you still adding a couple spices like in the last one?
As for the dough...it sounds like you are just going to have to try some different formula's in order to get to what you are liking about those pizza's you are having out/bringing home frozen. One change at a time is best...I would start by eliminating the butter and sticking will all corn oil. Next up, probably look into your sugar amount to lighten up the color of that crust. If you think your crust is not as tender, more crunchy/brittle than Lou's then dial back some semolina. You need to give more detailed descriptions Rowdy..."just not the same" can't get you to Pizza Town buddy.  ;D
What cheese are you using...

Bob
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Offline Francois.du.nord

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #709 on: April 13, 2013, 12:23:43 AM »
Taking my first shot at this recipe. I think it is going to be a winner. 


Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #710 on: April 18, 2013, 10:49:39 AM »
I've not been too active in pizzamaking recently since I've move to a different home in the Tampa Bay area.  But my family made a demand on me to make a good and tasty Chicago style deep dish pizza, so last week I went about putting together a 12" diameter pizza reflecting a formulation that I've successfully used in the past that delighted many taste buds.

Making the Pizza Dough

Formulation for 12" deep dish pizza:
Flour Blend* (100%):  293.94 g  |  10.37 oz | 0.65 lbs
Water (47%):  138.15 g  |  4.87 oz | 0.3 lbs
ADY (.6%):  1.76 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
Salt (1%):  2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  17.64 g | 0.62 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.92 tsp | 1.31 tbsp
Corn Oil (12%):  35.27 g | 1.24 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.84 tsp | 2.61 tbsp
Butter/Margarine Softened (6%):  17.64 g | 0.62 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.73 tsp | 1.24 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  4.41 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp | 0.37 tbsp
Total (174.1%): 511.76 g | 18.05 oz | 1.13 lbs | TF = 0.112665
  **The flour blend consisted of 80% KAOAP flour (approx. 235 g) and 20% semolina flour (59 g).  The proportions here can easily be increased or decreased depending upon one's personal likes and dislikes.
Note: 2/3 tsp of Baker's NFDM was added, but is completely optional (used for color and tender crust affect).  I also added 1.5% dough residue but ended up only using about 92% of the dough mixture.

Everyone has developed their own style or routine for mixing or combining the dough ingredients.  I'm set in my ways and usually put all the dry ingredients together in a bowl first (after measuring out the weight of the major component -- i.e., flours) and mix together by hand (all the while I'm waiting about 10 minutes for my ADY in a small amount of slightly warmed water -- 100 to 110 degrees -- to foam up).  And my preference is to only use ADY.  I then add the rest of the water (which is cooled or cold) and the ADY mixture (previously mixed in a small amount of that water which is warmed is a small shot glass), mix everything together very briefly, then add the oils.  I've often in the past put the oils in the flour first, as some are advocating, but hadn't noticed much of a difference with that.  But I may have to revisit that.  The last addition I do at the very last moment of a mixing of 25 to 50 seconds or so is to add the softened butter.  And doing it last and for just a very brief time assures you that the butter does not get fully "incorporated" into the mixture, which is a good thing. I think softened butter is much better here than melted butter.

After mixing the dough ingredients for this pizza, I put the dough ball in a oiled bowl, covered the bowl with plastic wrap, and let it rise in a slightly warm spot for about 4 or 5 hours, knocking the risen dough down a couple or more times during the interim.  The intent was to use this as "same day" dough so no refrigeration was contemplated.

After the 4 or 5 hour period, I sprayed the bottom of my 12" Pizzaware 2" deep dish pan with "PAM for Grilling" spray.  It's made for high-heat cooking and contains mostly cottonseed oil. It definitely helps to make the bottom crust crispier in the center.  I think its better than olive oil or Crisco on the bottom of the pan and I thank Ed Heller for that great idea.  I set the temperature in the oven in my new house  -- which is a gas oven that I'm not fully practiced on --  to warm up at around 480 degrees F for 30 to 40 minutes.   I previously only used an electric oven so use of a gas oven is a new experience for me in pizzamaking.

I generally never roll out the dough for a deep dish pizza, but I hand pressed it out a little first on the counter (may need a sprinkle of flour if too wet or oily), place it in the center of the pan, then press the remainder of the dough in the pan up to the sides and then up the side of the pan, preferably as high up to the top of the pan as you can, which in my case was a 2" pan. 

Pressing the dough up the side of the deep dish pan is to me a critical part of classic Chicago deep dish pizzamaking.  The tastier and typical Chicago deep dish pizzas have thin, crispy pizza rims (i.e. Cornicione) as opposed to the thick, fat, doughy, crust lip or edges.  One can look at the many pictures of Malnati's, Original UNO's/DUE's, and others deep dish pizzas to see that fact.  One exception is Gino's East in Chicago which does have a thick edge or lip, but the original Gino's on Rush St. had a thin edge or rim instead of a thick one.

So what I do after putting the dough in the pan and pushing it up the sides is to tightly and strongly "press, crimp, and pinch" the dough up the sides to make it as thin as I can.  On Ed's website he describes it as getting it "paper thin."  I don't know if one can get it that thin, but it would be nice.  And one may have to do this several times to assure that thin crust edge.  Actually the LAST thing I do before putting the dressed deep dish pizza into the oven is to AGAIN tightly press, crimp and pinch the dough up the sides of the pan (sometimes getting a lot of sauce on my finger tips).  Surprisingly, it makes for a much tastier pizza, which only one's culinary experience with this can demonstrate.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 09:39:10 AM by BTB »

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #711 on: April 18, 2013, 10:52:45 AM »
Dressing the Chicago Deep Dish Pizza

After getting the important special Chicago deep dish pizza dough into the pan, the challenge doesn't stop there (altho the dough is all important and different from other pizza doughs).  From the pictures shown above and below, you'll see I then put slices of Polly-O Whole Milk Mozzarella cheese (I sliced from a block of the cheese available at my grocer - using about 14 ounces of the 16 oz. package).  I've come to prefer whole milk cheese (not fresh) alot.  It is still low moisture, but better tasting I think then part-skimmed, but again that reflects individual tastes.  I also added about 3 or 4 ounces of circular sliced Boars Head provolone cheese (delicious) to top the cheese off. 

I then cut open two links of specialty deli Italian sweet sausage with fennel and spread it on top and around the pizza.  It amounted to about 12 ounces of uncooked sausage, which is all I had, but I think I would have liked another link to use, which would be around a total of 18 ounces of sausage, but it worked out just fine as it was.

After the sausage, I added the crushed Malnati's tomato sauce, which was really great.  I added around 22 plus ounces which may have been a little too much, but again, it worked out just fine. After the tomatoes, I sprinkled on some parmesan cheese and pinched on some crushed basil and a little oregano, as well as some salt, pepper and garlic powder, all sparingly added
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 02:39:07 PM by BTB »

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #712 on: April 18, 2013, 10:55:33 AM »
Baking the pizza

Putting the dressed pizza into the oven, I reduced the oven temperature from 480 to 450 degrees F and placed the pizza pan on the lowest rack level in my gas oven, which isn't as low as in my previous electric oven.  I took out the pizza after 15 minutes of bake and with my frosting spatula gently checked the underside of the pizza to make sure it wasn't over browning, as I hadn't much experience with this oven.  It looked fine, but I returned the pizza to the mid level oven rack instead, turned the pan 180 degrees, and also reduced the temperature to 430 degrees as the edges were starting to brown a little.  At about the 37 minute mark of the pizza bake, I decided to take the pizza out of the oven as it appeared done to me.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #713 on: April 18, 2013, 10:59:34 AM »
My family couldn't wait to dig into this delicious, tasty looking deep dish pizza.  Its been a while and mouths were watering.  I extracted the pizza out of the pan using both my small metal frosting spatula and the bigger pancake spatula.  Once on the cutting board, it was time to cut the pizza and get the plates ready, which is the rewarding part.   This pizza tasted soooooo good and didn't last that long unfortunately as it was consumed in just a short time.  I was pleasantly surprised on how good it came out and that even the center of the pie was somewhat crispy, but not as much as that on the outer edge, of course.  We will definitely be doing more of this in the near future.

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« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 03:04:48 PM by BTB »

Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #714 on: April 18, 2013, 11:18:54 AM »
Great write up BTB, always like seeing what you are doing.  Thanks for sharing, will be trying that recipe shortly.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #715 on: April 18, 2013, 11:25:25 AM »
BTB,

I see the master has not lost his touch. Great job. The last photo is stunning.

Peter

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #716 on: April 18, 2013, 03:24:22 PM »
For those curious about my comments of "extracting" the pizza from the deep dish pan, please see my thoughts and picture at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg174765.html#msg174765 .  I know extracting sounds like a painful tooth removal! !       

Thanks PuRowdy and Peter for your kind remarks.  Like Garvey said, this is all a "labor of love."

PuRowdy, have you been to Teibel's lately?

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Offline PuRowdy

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #717 on: April 18, 2013, 03:31:02 PM »
PuRowdy, have you been to Teibel's lately?

                                                                                              --BTB

I can't say that I've ever been there actually, is this something I need to check out?  Schererville where it appears to be located is about an hour and a half straight west of me.  Don't venture over that way all that often.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #718 on: April 18, 2013, 03:36:12 PM »
BTB,

Showing me up again I see.  Gorgeous pie man.  Where on earth did you find those tomatos?  Haven't seen them in Chicago for a year. 

On a side note I am cooking up a 14in tomorrow and was wondering how long u think I should bake it for?  27 mins was good for my 9in.  I saw that you went 37min for your 12in. but know u like yours a little darker.  Did you go longer for the raw sausage too?

Nate
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 04:54:11 PM by pythonic »
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #719 on: April 18, 2013, 03:57:42 PM »
Another wonderful pizza and write up from a Chicago DD expert....thanks BTB !!   :chef:
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