Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 184797 times)

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Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #725 on: April 19, 2013, 09:33:53 AM »
Hey Nate, I had some Malnati's cans left over from last fall when I was in Chicago.  I will check my sources out when I return to the Chicago area this summer to see if I can still get some.  I think Malnati's problem was that they anticipated alot more demand that didn't materialize and their supply started to get outdated.  Many complaints were had about cans of tomatoes sold near or past their sell by date, which was unfortunate.  The Slice website just had a raving review yesterday about Muir Glen tomatoes and found them to be among the best. And I have always been high on that brand, too.

I think I still have one of those Lou Malnati's tomato cans in my pantry.
For those interested, we had an earlier discussion about Lou's and other canned tomatoes here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10837.0.html

I've also been recommending Muir Glen. The best variety that I've used from them is the 'Crushed with Basil'. It has a more consistent texture compared to the 'random cut' Lou's tomatoes. IMHO, It's the best choice for deep dish, as you can pretty much use right out of the can without much (or any) need for draining and it's just chunky enough. I also like the Muir Glen puree as a base for Chicago thin crust (but that's another subject). If you like a smoother deep dish sauce, the puree is a nice option. I'd just add some dried (or fresh chopped) basil to it and add sugar/salt to taste. I should write up a new tomato article for Deep Dish 101. (did I type that or just think it? - D'oh!)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 09:35:34 AM by vcb »
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #726 on: April 19, 2013, 10:42:14 AM »
BTB:

I will gladly give Tiebel's another shot.  Thanks for the report that it's still good.  Perch is so delicate that it really can vary quite a bit, depending on who's working the kitchen.  I remember loving Phil Smidt's perch, too, and the "family style" dining they offered.  The other great place for perch was the Miller Beach Cafe (in the Miller section of Gary).  Theirs was so very lightly battered, barely covering the delicate filets.  But that place is also no more, from what I understand.  The nearby Flamingo's Pizza in Miller gets raves.  I've never had it but would like to try it next time I'm up that way.  So many pizzas, such little time.

Cheers,
Garvey

Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #727 on: April 19, 2013, 04:27:19 PM »
FYI....I called up a malnatis carry out store near me and they said they can sell the sauce as a side.  $1.50 for 8oz.  Seems a little bit high but their tomatoes are the %$#.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #728 on: April 19, 2013, 05:35:50 PM »
A buck fity ain't too bad...places like that aren't going to give away noth'in. They don't need to.... >:(
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #729 on: April 19, 2013, 06:24:55 PM »
FYI....I called up a malnatis carry out store near me and they said they can sell the sauce as a side.  $1.50 for 8oz.  Seems a little bit high but their tomatoes are the %$#.

You only need 14-18 oz to cover a 12 inch pie, so I guess it's the service charge you pay for not just ordering a pizza from them.
Just pick up a $3 can of Muir Glen Crushed with Basil. It'll make you happy.  :pizza:
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #730 on: April 21, 2013, 10:52:08 PM »
You only need 14-18 oz to cover a 12 inch pie, so I guess it's the service charge you pay for not just ordering a pizza from them.
Just pick up a $3 can of Muir Glen Crushed with Basil. It'll make you happy.  :pizza:

I tried a can of crushed without the basil on Friday but I prefer their whole peeled plum tomatoes.  Have u given those a try yet?

Nate
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 02:09:30 PM by pythonic »
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #731 on: April 22, 2013, 03:53:53 PM »
Have to keep paying homage to this thread.  Without it I would have never thought to add semolina to my pizzas.


4% Semolina Flour
425F
25 minute bake

Flour (100%):  202.88 g  |  7.16 oz | 0.45 lbs
Water (47%):  95.35 g  |  3.36 oz | 0.21 lbs
ADY (.7%):  1.42 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  12.17 g | 0.43 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.71 tsp | 0.9 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):  37.53 g | 1.32 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.34 tsp | 2.78 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  2.03 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  3.04 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Salt:  1/4 tsp
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #732 on: April 22, 2013, 10:10:02 PM »
Boy, that's a really nice looking one right there Nate...excellent work.  :chef:

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #733 on: April 24, 2013, 09:36:01 PM »
Thanks Bob.  Best deep dish I have ever made.  Now if I could just master Giordanos.  May have to get a summer job there.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #734 on: April 30, 2013, 07:04:58 PM »
Recent info on time, oil , temp ect....Have been using BTB's semolina formula since inception...Just recently noticed info concerning baking temp, when to add oil and pan oiling....to be honest have been happy with our pizza for many years .....had Lou's about once a week for 25 years either in or pick up....today I made the usual BTB formula using 20% semolina..our new process included adding oil first to the flour/semolina blend and mixing well by hand.. 4-5 hour bench rise and punch down, overnight in fridge punch down with 3-4 hour bench rise with another punch down or two, spraying pan with grill oil and baking at 425...we  pre-heated oven with stone at 500 reduced to 425 and baked turning once half way thur the 30 minute bake cycle....in the past it was 475 for 20 maybe a touch more....results was the most crispy crust we ever had without  burning or extremely brown crust....not bad folks...I would suggest you try this concept and would love to hear further comments...I really think the oil first mixed well and the lower temp makes a great difference....we have an electric over with a temp probe inside....it might have been to crispy and wish I knew how to send pics but I am an old guy and don't know how to do it....

tbv
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 08:44:40 PM by Steve »

Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #735 on: April 30, 2013, 07:15:45 PM »
Recent info on time, oil , temp ect....Have been using BTB's semolina formula since inception...Just recently noticed info concerning baking temp, when to add oil and pan oiling....to be honest have been happy with our pizza for many years .....had Lou's about once a week for 25 years either in or pick up....today I made the usual BTB formula using 20% semolina..our new process included adding oil first to the flour/semolina blend and mixing well by hand.. 4-5 hour bench rise and punch down, overnight in fridge punch down with 3-4 hour bench rise with another punch down or two, spraying pan with grill oil and baking at 425...we  pre-heated oven with stone at 500 reduced to 425 and baked turning once half way thur the 30 minute bake cycle....in the past it was 475 for 20 maybe a touch more....results was the most crispy crust we ever had without  burning or extremely brown crust....not bad folks...I would suggest you try this concept and would love to hear further comments...I really think the oil first mixed well and the lower temp makes a great difference....we have an electric over with a temp probe inside....it might have been to crispy and wish I knew how to send pics but I am an old guy and don't know how to do it....

tbv


Are your pics on your phone or camera?

Nate
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 08:45:05 PM by Steve »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #736 on: April 30, 2013, 07:39:57 PM »
wish I knew how to send pics but I am an old guy and don't know how to do it....

hey man, don't blame yourself, this forum is the most difficult I've ever seen in terms of posting photos.  I'm with you -- i'd post a ton more photos if it wasn't such a hassle!   :chef:  I know the mods have a reason for having such a strict and difficult process, but IMO having some photos that don't work in 10 years is better than having no photos to begin with!   >:D

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #737 on: April 30, 2013, 07:53:50 PM »
Recent info on time, oil , temp ect....Have been using BTB's semolina formula since inception...Just recently noticed info concerning baking temp, when to add oil and pan oiling....to be honest have been happy with our pizza for many years .....had Lou's about once a week for 25 years either in or pick up....today I made the usual BTB formula using 20% semolina..our new process included adding oil first to the flour/semolina blend and mixing well by hand.. 4-5 hour bench rise and punch down, overnight in fridge punch down with 3-4 hour bench rise with another punch down or two, spraying pan with grill oil and baking at 425...we  pre-heated oven with stone at 500 reduced to 425 and baked turning once half way thur the 30 minute bake cycle....in the past it was 475 for 20 maybe a touch more....results was the most crispy crust we ever had without  burning or extremely brown crust....not bad folks...I would suggest you try this concept and would love to hear further comments...I really think the oil first mixed well and the lower temp makes a great difference....we have an electric over with a temp probe inside....it might have been to crispy and wish I knew how to send pics but I am an old guy and don't know how to do it....

tbv
FLAVORMAN,
First of all, 61 ain't old and like CDN said ;posting pics can be a little tricky but if I can do it so can you. We'll get you past this 'lil trouble...no problem.
I really want to see this last pie of yours . I have also recently been monkeying around with bake times on these DD pizza's and , like yourself, am seeing there may be a better way.
I am old school Chi thin crust guy and grew up learning that we whisk the lard in with the flour first thingso that is another thing I like about what you're doing.
Let's get this pic thing figured out for you.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 08:45:27 PM by Steve »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #738 on: May 01, 2013, 08:05:03 AM »
Sure wish I was 61 add 10... my flip phone stays in the car and only get a couple of calls a week..My wife on the other hand is a pro..next pie I will get some help from her and you can see what we eat. I really think the time and temp as well as adding oil first makes for some more experiments. Good thing is you can eat the experiment. Great bunch of people on this site...

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #739 on: May 01, 2013, 11:29:38 AM »
I really think the time and temp as well as adding oil first makes for some more experiments. Good thing is you can eat the experiment.
Flavorman, I think you're great pizzamaker and love to hear of your experiments and thoughts here. 

I'm thinking of trying an experiment making two small deep dish pizzas, one with adding the oils first and the other with adding it near the end of the blending process, and then comparing the two.  But I need a clearer understanding of the difference in approaches.  Are the thoughts relating to adding all the oils first mean to add the oils first into the flour blend, which is either the bread or AP flour together with the semolina flour, before all the other ingredients, i.e., water, water/ADY blend, salt, sugar, and softened butter? 

Please, anyone, add their thoughts here regarding this "oil first" idea.

                                                                                        --BTB

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #740 on: May 01, 2013, 11:55:52 AM »
. . . I have been using BTB's semolina formula since inception . . . . to be honest I have been happy with our pizza for many years . . . and had Lou's (pizza) about once a week for 25 years, either in or pick up . . . . .
Hey Flavorman, ditto.  I was a regular at Malnati's on Lincoln Ave. in Lincolnwood for many, many years.  Then when my business moved further north, I was a regular at Malnati's in Buffalo Grove, too, but often visited the Elk Grove Village and the Well's St. and the close-in Lincoln Ave. locations.  While first falling in love with the original Uno's/Due's great deep dish pizzas, I later came to love Lou's pizzas as the greatest on the face of the earth.               

                                                                                                                    --BTB

P.S.  My "flip phone" stays mostly in the car, too ! ! !

Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #741 on: May 01, 2013, 12:25:35 PM »
Are the thoughts relating to adding all the oils first mean to add the oils first into the flour blend, which is either the bread or AP flour together with the semolina flour, before all the other ingredients, i.e., water, water/ADY blend, salt, sugar, and softened butter? 

Please, anyone, add their thoughts here regarding this "oil first" idea.

                                                                                        --BTB

Here's the order I usually use when making pizza dough:

Yeast, (sugar & salt, if you're using it), lukewarm water, oil, then half of the flour.
Then I mix it together into something resembling pancake or waffle batter.
Then I add the rest of the flour, mixing with a strong spoon until it comes together.
Then I knead it by hand until it forms a ball. During the kneading, if it seems a little dry, I let the dough rest a few minutes so the flour can hydrate and then try kneading again. If it's still too dry, I add a few drops of water to get it pliable enough to form a ball.

WHY?
I put the liquids in first, including the oil (along with the yeast) because that's the way I saw them do it at Lou Malnati's on a video I saw.
(don't remember the youtube link, but I'm pretty sure it's in a thread where we were working out ingredient amounts & talking about Cambro containers)
** found the discussion thread, but sadly the youtube video appears to have been pulled:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10161.0.html. **


I figured if I'm going to replicate deep dish dough, I should try doing it the way they do.

As far as the food science goes
, there is probably a difference in texture if you combine the oil with the flour first before adding any water.
The oil surrounds the flour grains, which makes it harder for the water to get in, which you need for gluten formation right?

The type of oil/fat also makes a difference: Check out this link about 'Shortening Power Of Fats And Oils' :
http://chestofbooks.com/food/science/Experimental-Cookery/Shortening-Power-Of-Fats-And-Oils-Continued.html
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 02:19:51 PM by vcb »
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Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #742 on: May 01, 2013, 04:54:09 PM »
BTB..
Small world, I live in Florida on the east coast.  We moved my company from Elk Grove to Wheeling Illinois and visited both Lou's often. ( I had an employee who worked part time at the ElK Grove location and he would get me their flour blend to play with, wish I had some now to ,,in those days I used coconut oil with the flour) Also had a home in the South Haven Area....keep on cookin'  and I hear your flip phone ringing....

Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #743 on: May 01, 2013, 07:30:53 PM »
Flavorman, I think you're great pizzamaker and love to hear of your experiments and thoughts here. 

I'm thinking of trying an experiment making two small deep dish pizzas, one with adding the oils first and the other with adding it near the end of the blending process, and then comparing the two.  But I need a clearer understanding of the difference in approaches.  Are the thoughts relating to adding all the oils first mean to add the oils first into the flour blend, which is either the bread or AP flour together with the semolina flour, before all the other ingredients, i.e., water, water/ADY blend, salt, sugar, and softened butter? 

Please, anyone, add their thoughts here regarding this "oil first" idea.

                                                                                        --BTB



BTB,

"Oil first" to me is adding the oil to all flours.  I add the butter during my 60 sec kneading process.  It made a difference vs adding the oil to everything else for me.  Lower temps did as well.

Nate
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 07:33:42 PM by pythonic »
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Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #744 on: May 03, 2013, 02:11:40 PM »
Yes I agree with BTB...add the oil to the flour blend and mix by hand..it will all come together, then add other liquids. I do not use butter and am working on using less oil and maybe adding butter....I have many trials in the next month or so and will let you know if anything great comes out superior to brag about....have fun...
ps   I know I am going to hear about this but just bought some fine grind corn meal and will make a few using it....please no yelling....ha ha ............

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #745 on: May 03, 2013, 03:30:54 PM »
Yes I agree with BTB...add the oil to the flour blend and mix by hand..it will all come together, then add other liquids. I do not use butter and am working on using less oil and maybe adding butter....I have many trials in the next month or so and will let you know if anything great comes out superior to brag about....have fun...
ps   I know I am going to hear about this but just bought some fine grind corn meal and will make a few using it....please no yelling....ha ha ............
OOOh for the love of......!!!!!!!!!
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #746 on: May 05, 2013, 06:49:26 AM »
OOOh for the love of......!!!!!!!!!


Shhhhh.....cornmeal is the bomb.  Add a little honey too.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #747 on: May 06, 2013, 08:51:39 AM »
This past weekend I went about the experiment that I mentioned above by making 2 small 6" pizzas by mixing the flour first with the oils and then the other ingredients afterwards.  I then also made one small 7" pizza by mixing the ingredients as I expressed above starting at Reply #710 (i.e., adding the oils late in the process).   I used the same formulation for the pizza crusts as I did above.  My objective was to see (and taste) what, if any, difference there was with adding the oils first to the flour instead of later in the mixing cycle.  My wife and adult son were prepared to judge the results of this tasty effort.  Some pics follow.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #748 on: May 06, 2013, 08:54:32 AM »
After we consumed pieces of both pizzas in which the ingredients were combined a little differently, we savored on the resulting delicious meal, burped a bit, and said . . . they're both great ! ! !  Sorry to some of my friends who thought differently, but this was our experience with this trial.  There was no significant difference in the 3 pizzas.  The good news to us was that we had a delicious meal regardless of the order of mixing the oils.  The pizzas were outstanding.  I may next have to try what VCB suggested with putting all the liquids in the bowl first even before the flour.

See how much fun these "experiments" can be?  In the name of science, you get to eat some great pizza !

                                                                                                   --BTB               :D

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #749 on: May 06, 2013, 03:28:34 PM »
Woo Hoo BTB!! You should get an award or something for those beauties...sooo nice man!  :chef:
The photography is stunning. That last pic is the best looking DD I have seen anywhere. I would frame that!
I need some of those tall pans, really shows off your great work.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 03:30:23 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


 

pizzapan