Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina

[BTB]

I added just a small amount of fresh mozzarella on the 9" pizza also, but put it on top of the sauce instead of under the sauce as I had done with the 12" pizza.  I might add that while I really, really love the taste of fresh mozzarella, I've learned to use it sparingly, if at all, as it can make the pizza much too watery if used in too large a quantity.

[BTB]

My guests again raved as much about the 9" Malnati with semolina as they did with the 12" with some having expressed a slight preference for the version made with 25% semolina.  But both were absolutely delicious and I am really sold on the use of semolina with Chicago deep dish style pizza.  These two pieces quickly disappeared shortly after taking the shot.

[Pete-zza]

BTB,

As usual, a superb job in all respects.

Peter

[lj]

This looks soooo good.
could someone please help me convert this recipie
to 15" x 2"
 I am not really understanding the pizza conversion tool that is linked.

[Pete-zza]

could someone please help me convert this recipie
to 15" x 2"
 I am not really understanding the pizza conversion tool that is linked.

lj,

BTB posted two recipes most recently, one in Reply 16 and one in Reply 19. They are not the same. Which one did you have in mind?

Peter

[lj]

I would like to try #19 the one where he uses more semolina.

[Pete-zza]

lj,

I took a stab at modifying the recipe for your pan size.

Based on your pan size (15") and depth (2"), I entered the following information into the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html:

1. A nominal thickness factor of 0.125 (I believe that this is the number used by BTB)
2. "1" as the number of dough balls
3. "Straight-sided" as the style of your pan (I assume your pan is straight-sided)
4. 15" as the diameter of the pan
5. 1.5" as the depth of the dough up the sides of the pan (I believe that that is the depth that BTB uses)
6. All of the baker's percents recited by BTB for his recipe in Reply 19, except for the semolina (note that there is no salt, so the "None" block should be checked for the salt)
7. A bowl residue compensation of 1.5%

As a result of the above entries, I got the following dough formulation (which I modified slightly to reflect that part of the all-purpose flour will be replaced by semolina flour):

Flour and Semolina Blend* (100%): Water (47%): ADY (0.7%): Olive Oil (6%): Corn Oil (18.5%): Butter/Margarine (1%): Sugar (1.5%): Cream of Tartar (0.75%): Total (175.45%):

483.04 g  |  17.04 oz | 1.06 lbs 227.03 g  |  8.01 oz | 0.5 lbs 3.38 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp 28.98 g | 1.02 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.44 tsp | 2.15 tbsp 89.36 g | 3.15 oz | 0.2 lbs | 6.62 tbsp | 0.41 cups 4.83 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp 7.25 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp 3.62 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp 847.5 g | 29.89 oz | 1.87 lbs | TF = 0.126875

*Note: The Flour and Semolina Blend is made up of 362.28 g. (12.78 oz.) all-purpose flour and 120.76 g. (4.26 oz.) semolina flour; the semolina flour translates to about 11.5 tablespoons, or about 0.72 cups (a bit less than 3/4 cup); the semolina flour represents 25% of the Flour and Semolina Blend; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

I hope you will let us know how things turn out. Keep in mind that it is easy enough to use the deep-dish dough calculating tool to make the crust thicker or thinner. You also have some flexibility to adjust thickness by pushing the dough higher or lower in the pan.

Peter

[JConk007]

Thank you!
These look awsome!! great shots and explanations of procedure (and comments tips) by Pete. Where else can you get this guidance? I am ordering semolina today and now will have a tough time to decide which post turkey pie to make 1st. The cracker or these beauties
Now I'm hungry again!
John

[lj]

Peter,
  Thank you soooo much for helping me convert it.
 one more question, what scale do you use? Ive always used cups and spoons to measure
will it be easy for me to use a scale? any recomondations on what kind to get?
  Thanks again Peter, I really appreciate your help, I'm from chicago but I have been living  in Florida
since 2004, and I am giving up trying to find good thin cracker crust and deep dish pizza and thought
i might have better luck to try and make it myself.

[Pete-zza]

one more question, what scale do you use? Ive always used cups and spoons to measure
will it be easy for me to use a scale? any recomondations on what kind to get?

lj,

I have a Soehnle Futura digital scale that I purchased a few years ago on the recommendation of a member and after reading good reviews on that scale. However, there are many good digital scales out there, at different price points and with different features, as you will see if you review some of the threads on the forum dealing with scales, under the index http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/board,48.0.html. My usual practice is to recommend that members looking for a scale identify what uses they will have for the scale (which may go beyond making pizza dough) and which features are likely to be the most useful to them. Of course, price is also an important consideration. However, one digital scale that seems to be quite popular among the members, and is reasonably priced in my opinion, is the KD-7000 digital scale. That scale is sold on many online sources, including this one: http://www.saveonscales.com/product_mw_kd7000.html. If I were to buy a new scale, that is one that I would seriously consider.

It is possible to live without a digital scale, but you will have more options available to you if you have one. Sometimes the only recipes for certain doughs are recipes recited with weights and baker's percents, as you have seen with BTB's recipes in this thread. Almost all my recipes come in that format.

Peter

[BTB]

Peter's formulation for a 15" diameter Chicago Style deep dish pizza is correct and that reflects a proportion of 25% semolina flour, which is a good happy medium amount of semolina.  Here are a couple of variations:  if you like a little less semolina as part of the mixture, then a 15% proportion for a 15" pan pizza would mean 410.6 g. (14.5 oz.) all-purpose flour and 72.5 g. ( 2.5 oz.) semolina flour.  For a larger proportion of semolina, which many like, then a 35% proportion for a 15" pan pizza would mean 314 g. (11 oz) all-purpose flour and 169 g (6 oz) semolina flour.  A couple of additional points:  I liberally round off on everything; melt and let the tiny bit of butter cool a little before adding in; the cream of tartar is not critical and can be left out (so don't worry about finding some); crimp or press the dough against the side of the pan tightly and repeat such after you've added all the ingredients on the pizza before baking.

About a year ago I bought a terrific Salter electronic kitchen scale at Linens & Things (like a Bed, Bath and Beyond) for about $30 and have been super happy with it.  You can do all kinds of sophisticated things with it.  Now I do most things by weight, except small things that require a Tablespoon, teaspoon, or fraction thereof.      --BTB

[lj]

Thanks Peter,
  I got the 8000. I ordered it on the 24th, I cant wait to get it.
Thanks for the link.

[lj]

Thanks BTB,
  Thanks for all the semolina formulations! I can't wait to try this out.
I'm waiting on my pan and scale.
     That scale looks really good to. I ordered the one Peter recomended before I saw yours.
I had to get my pizza ordering out of the way so I could start thinking and focusing on Thanksgiving.
   now that Thanksgiving is out of the way its back to Pizza. 

[vonBanditos]

I've chosen to try this recipe as my first attempt at making a pizza! I'm scaling the 25% semolina recipe for a 14 inch pan which yields the following result thanks to the dough calculator that Pete-zza has pointed out:

Flour (100%):    428.3 g  |  15.11 oz | 0.94 lbs
Water (47%):    201.3 g  |  7.1 oz | 0.44 lbs
ADY (.7%):    3 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.79 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):    25.7 g | 0.91 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.71 tsp | 1.9 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):    79.24 g | 2.79 oz | 0.17 lbs | 5.87 tbsp | 0.37 cups
Butter/Margarine (1%):    4.28 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    6.42 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Cream of Tartar (.75%):    3.21 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
Total (175.45%):   751.45 g | 26.51 oz | 1.66 lbs | TF = 0.126875

I'm new to cooking in general so this has been an adventure for me. I've tried to make this twice now. The first time, I measured everything by weight. When I came to measure the corn oil I discovered that 79.24 grams is nowhere near 5.87 tablespoons. I must have measured nearer to 12 tablespoons just for the corn oil. When I was done, the resulting dough was exceptionally oily. I let it sit in the fridge for 24 hours. At the end of the 24 hour period the dough was sitting in a very large pool of oil. Rather than waste a good can of 6-in-1 to what must have been a mistake I threw the dough out and labeled it a learning experience. This second time around I've measured everything solid as a weight and everything liquid with its corresponding liquid measurement - tbsp/tsp. The dough looks much more like dough as opposed to the swamp that I made the first time, but the total weight isn't close to 751.45 grams since I omitted the lake of liquid. Am I doing any of this right? I'll be cooking the second dough tomorrow.

Sorry if this really should be in the newbie section!

[BTB]

While Chicago Style Deep Dish pizza dough's always have a lot of oil it (the range is often anywhere from 15 to 30 %) , that generally shouldn't happen, vanBanditas.  But I sometimes have experienced what you did and when I did, it generally meant that I should have put some more flour in the mixture.  Just keep adding a little more at a time till the dough comes together nicely in a ball.  And when it did happen, I just took the dough ball and put it on a well floured counter, sprinkled some flour and pressed it out fairly well into a circle almost the size of the pan, then carefully lifted it into the pan (sometimes rolling it up on a rolling pin), and then flattening it out some more in the pan.  And when that happens, it's best to coat the pan with Crisco instead of oil (or even nothing at all).  But that hasn't happened to me in some time.  I getting to learn that after some experience, you get a "feel" for when the dough ball is just right.

Based on Peter's recent recommended way of calculating the semolina in the formulation, which does not utilize putting a semolina figure or amount into the deep dish tool itself (even tho there's a blank space for it), you manually calculate the proportions of AP flour and Semolina flour (i.e., in this case 75% and 25% of the total flour amount).  Thus your formulation for a 14" deep dish (assuming straight-side and 1.5" up the side) is:

Flour and Semolina Blend* (100%):  428.3 g  |  15.11 oz | 0.94 lbs
Water (47%):  201.3 g  |  7.1 oz | 0.44 lbs
ADY (.7%):  3 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.79 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  25.7 g | 0.91 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.71 tsp | 1.9 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):  79.24 g | 2.79 oz | 0.17 lbs | 5.87 tbsp | 0.37 cups
Butter/Margarine (1%):  4.28 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  6.42 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Cream of Tartar (.75%):  3.21 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
Total (175.45%): 751.45 g | 26.51 oz | 1.66 lbs | TF = 0.126875
*Note: The Flour and Semolina Blend is made up of 321.2 g. (11.33 oz.) all-purpose flour and 107.1 g. (3.77 oz.) semolina flour.

Good luck and let us know how the second dough turned out.

[vonBanditos]

Success! Many thanks for this great recipe and advice! The dough was awfully thin as a result of the lower-than-expected weight, I think, but it tasted great!

[Pete-zza]

When I came to measure the corn oil I discovered that 79.24 grams is nowhere near 5.87 tablespoons.

vonBanditos,

When BoyHitsCar (Mike) and I designed the deep-dish dough calculating tool, we relied a lot on the nutrition data given at nutritiondata.com on the different types of oil. Generally speaking, one teaspoon of corn oil, canola oil, olive oil, and vegetable oil all weigh about the same, about 0.16 ounce. Measuring out oil by using measuring spoons can be a bit tricky because some of the oil sticks to the measuring spoon and it is hard to see the meniscus as you are measuring out the oil. However, tonight I measured out 5.87 tablespoons (about 17.5 teaspoons) of corn oil in a a half-cup measuring cup (tared out) and the weight was close to 79 grams, just as specified in the dough formulation you used. It is hard to imagine that any brand of corn oil would require 12 tablespoons (36 teaspoons) to get 79 grams. You might want to repeat your measurement of the corn oil to see if you can confirm the results of your last test. I frequently use large amounts of oil for certain doughs and my finished dough weights are always in line with my calculated quantities as derived from using the dough calculating tools. That leads me to believe that the oil weight and volume data built into the deep-dish dough calculating tool are correct and accurate.

Peter

[vonBanditos]

vonBanditos,

When BoyHitsCar (Mike) and I designed the deep-dish dough calculating tool, we relied a lot on the nutrition data given at nutritiondata.com on the different types of oil. Generally speaking, one teaspoon of corn oil, canola oil, olive oil, and vegetable oil all weigh about the same, about 0.16 ounce. Measuring out oil by using measuring spoons can be a bit tricky because some of the oil sticks to the measuring spoon and it is hard to see the meniscus as you are measuring out the oil. However, tonight I measured out 5.87 tablespoons (about 17.5 teaspoons) of corn oil in a a half-cup measuring cup (tared out) and the weight was close to 79 grams, just as specified in the dough formulation you used. It is hard to imagine that any brand of corn oil would require 12 tablespoons (36 teaspoons) to get 79 grams. You might want to repeat your measurement of the corn oil to see if you can confirm the results of your last test. I frequently use large amounts of oil for certain doughs and my finished dough weights are always in line with my calculated quantities as derived from using the dough calculating tools. That leads me to believe that the oil weight and volume data built into the deep-dish dough calculating tool are correct and accurate.

Peter

Pete-zza,

This has me baffled! I can't tell if the problem is with my spoon, my scale, or just plain me! I'm using an inexpensive scale that I picked up from Amazon for the sole purpose of making pizza - an Escali P115c. I tested it with a quarter and it correctly identified my reference weight to be 5 grams (its maximum precision is in grams). Using generic Giant Eagle brand corn oil (the local grocery store brand) a tablespoon weighed in at 9 grams or 0.3 oz. I then measured 5 more tablespoons to give it a total of 6 tablespoons - results: 52g or 1.85 oz. Given the beauty of your pizzas I can only conclude that my scale is wonky, my technique is exceedingly poor (this wouldn't surprise me!), or my tablespoon isn't much of a tablespoon! 

[November]

I tested it with a quarter and it correctly identified my reference weight to be 5 grams (its maximum precision is in grams).

I wouldn't use a US quarter as it weighs 5.67 g, which could round up to 6 g on some scales.  A US nickel however, weighs exactly 5 g.

[Pete-zza]

Pete-zza,

This has me baffled! 

vonBanditos,

I always weigh the finished dough and compare it with the number given in the dough calculating tool. That is where I am likely to detect that I did something wrong from a measurement standpoint. You might try that method next time and see what you get.

Peter