Author Topic: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza  (Read 47177 times)

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Offline Bistro

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2008, 04:47:36 PM »
Keep up the good work JerryMac. Its obvious everyone loves the recipe I begged you to post...
Hope your doing well!!!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2008, 05:50:50 PM »
Keep up the good work JerryMac. Its obvious everyone loves the recipe I begged you to post...
Hope your doing well!!!

I believe that Bistro may have meant to post in JerryMac's original thread on his dough recipe, which can be found at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.0.html. I made a version of JerryMac's recipe that was slightly different than his and based on baker's percents so that the pizza can be made at any size. Either way, JerryMac has a good recipe.

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2008, 10:17:10 PM »
I keep playing with it.  I'm getting closer.
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 10:10:37 AM »
Tom Lehmann recently briefly described a method at the PMQ Think Tank forum at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=38304#38304 for adapting a direct-method dough recipe to a “sponge” preferment format. I am certain that the suggestion to use this method was intended to be with respect to a low yeast dough recipe, but I wondered whether it would work for a dough formulation with a lot more yeast, such as the one originally given by JerryMac at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.0.html. As those who have tried JerryMac’s dough recipe know, Jerry Mac’s dough is made and used the same day. By contrast, Tom’s method would permit a period of cold fermentation of up to three days. It was that feature that intrigued me, especially in the context of using a lot of yeast (about 1.4% IDY) rather than the minuscule amounts usually used in the sponge preferment method.

I decided to try Tom’s sponge method without changing JerryMac’s basic recipe. In my case, I used the same version of JerryMac’s recipe as recited in the opening post of this thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg55855.html#msg55855. That dough formulation, for a 16” pizza, is this one:

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Morton’s Kosher Salt (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):
320.14 g  |  11.29 oz | 0.71 lbs
217.69 g  |  7.68 oz | 0.48 lbs
4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.44 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
5.18 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.08 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
15.09 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.16 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
562.45 g | 19.84 oz | 1.24 lbs | TF = 0.0986728
Note: The nominal thickness factor = 0.096738; the bowl compensation factor = 2%

As noted above, the flour I used was the King Arthur bread flour. It was sifted in preparation for using. Because of the anticipated wetness of the dough and its natural propensity to stick to things, I used a bowl residue compensation of 2%.

To prepare the sponge in line with Tom Lehmann’s instructions, I used 60% of the formula flour, one-half of the weight of the formula flour as water, and all of the yeast. The values of the sponge ingredients can be specified as follows:

Sponge Preferment:
King Arthur bread flour: 192.08 g. (6.78 oz.), (1 c. + ½ c. + 2 5/8 t.)
Water:160.07 g. (5.65 oz.), (1/2 c. + 2 T. + 2 ½ t.)
IDY: 4.35 g. (0.15 oz.), or 1.44 t. (a bit less than 1 ½ t.)
Note: The volume measurements given above for the sponge flour and water are measured out in accordance with the Textbook method as defined at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6576.msg56397.html#msg56397

To prepare the sponge, I combined the flour, water and IDY in the mixer bowl of my standard KitchenAid stand mixer, using the stir speed and the flat beater attachment. The water was at a temperature of 54 degrees F. The sponge ingredients were mixed for about 3 minutes. The resultant sponge had a hydration of 83.33% and it had a finished temperature of 71 degrees F. The sponge was allowed to ferment, covered by a sheet of plastic wrap, at a room temperature of about 81 degrees F, until the sponge peaked and then started to collapse (the break point). Normally, the peak and break points take several hours to occur but with the high amount of yeast, it took only three hours. The first photo below shows the sponge shortly after the break point occurred.

Once the break point was reached, I used the sponge with the remaining formula ingredients as part of the final mix. The final mix can be recited as follows:

Final Mix
Sponge Preferment as prepared above
Remaining flour: 128.056 g. (4.52 oz.) (1 c. + 1 1/2 t.)
Remaining water: 57.62 g. (1/2 c. + 2 t.)
Salt: 5.18 g. (0.18 oz.), or 1.08 t.
Honey: 15.09 g. (0.53 oz.), or 2.16 t.
Note: The volume measurements given above for the flour and water are measured out in accordance with the Textbook method, as above

Using the remaining formula water at about 47 degrees F (directly out of the refrigerator), all of the ingredients for the final mix were combined in the stand mixer at stir speed, using the flat beater attachment, until the dough mass gathered around the flat beater, about 2 minutes. I then replaced the flat beater attachment with the C-hook and kneaded at speed 2 for about 4 minutes. The finished dough weight was 551 g. (19.44 oz.), and the finished dough temperature was 77 degrees F. The dough was quite wet and pretty much without form but, using a bench knife and a lightly floured work surface, I formed the dough mass into a round ball. The dough was then put into a lightly oiled 1 ¾-qt. Pyrex glass bowl, covered with its plastic cover (with a small hole in the center for the release of gases), and put into the refrigerator. The dough remained in the refrigerator for just shy of two days. During its stay in the refrigerator, the dough rose quickly and even bumped up against the inside of the cover of the bowl (but did not push it off). When I removed the dough from the bowl, it was very soft, wet and gassy. So, to more fully develop the gluten structure, I re-kneaded the dough and let it warm up at room temperature for 2 hours. The second photo below shows the dough ball just after re-kneading.

To prepare the pizza, I shaped and stretched the dough to 16” and placed the skin onto a 16” pizza screen. Because of the high hydration of the dough, around 68%, I lightly sprayed the pizza screen in advance with a canola oil spray to minimize the likelihood of the skin sticking to the screen. As with my previous efforts with JerryMac’s dough recipe, the skin was highly extensible. However, I had no problems in getting the skin out to 16” and onto the pizza screen. Had I chosen to use a peel along with a stone capable of handling a 16” pizza, it is possible that I would have encountered sticking problems. Using parchment paper or member Jackitup’s skin management method depicted at http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x41/Jackitup1/?=view&current=95f76c71.pbw95f76c71.pbw would have been possible workable alternatives. I used the 16” screen because my stone cannot itself accommodate a pizza size greater than 14”.

The skin was dressed to make a buffalo chicken pizza, which is one of my favorites. To do this, I first coated the stretched out skin with a layer of buttermilk Ranch dressing (Ken’s brand). I then added the following items in sequence: drizzles of Frank’s Red Hot Buffalo Wing Sauce; crumbled blue cheese; diced yellow onion (red onion is also a good choice); pieces of chicken that I had grilled in a grill pan and coated with more of the Frank’s Wing Sauce; shredded mozzarella cheese (low-moisture, part-skim); pieces of partially-cooked bacon; and more drizzles of the Frank’s Wing Sauce. I used about half the amount of mozzarella cheese that I would normally use on a 16” pizza.

The pizza was baked, on the screen, on the top-most oven rack position of my oven, at a temperature of about 525 degrees F, until the rim of the pizza expanded and started to turn light brown, about 4 minutes. I then shifted the pizza off of the screen (which was then removed from the oven) onto my pizza stone to get increased bottom crust browning, about another 3 minutes. The stone had been placed on the lowest oven rack position and preheated for about an hour at the above temperature. After the bottom of the crust of the pizza reached the desired color, I moved the pizza back to the top-most oven rack to get increased top crust browning, about 2 more minutes (I will have more to say about the color issue below).

The photos in the next post show the finished pizza. The pizza was excellent. It had a large rim that was open and airy and with several large bubbles (see the cross sectional view in the slice photo in the next post) and with a crunchy outer veneer. The rest of the crust was chewy and a bit crispy. The crust flavors were better than with a dough of similar age but prepared using the direct method.

The crust coloration was good but it took longer than usual to get the color to the desired level. I believe that the dough did not have the usual amount of residual sugar to contribute to normal crust coloration. I somewhat expected this because of the large amount of the sponge (about 70% of the total dough weight) and the large amount of yeast (almost 1.4%) that ends up using most of the sugars released by enzyme performance, leaving little fermentiscible sugar in the remaining flour. Anticipating this possibility, I had thought to add about 0.5-1% diastatic malt, by weight of total formula flour, to the dough as part of the final mix to get increased extraction of sugar. However, because of the use of about 4.7% honey, I thought that there might already be ample residual sugar to contribute to the final color of the crust. That turned out not to be quite the case, so if I were to use the sponge method again with JerryMac’s recipe, I personally would add some diastatic malt to see if the results are improved. For those interested in diastatic malt, it is sold by Bob's Red Mill (http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3529&cat=0&page=1).

I believe that perhaps the most valuable lesson to come out of my recent effort is that the sponge preferment method can be used with JerryMac’s recipe to extend the fermentation period beyond a single day, or part of a day, to at least two days. As made clear above, there is no need to change the ingredients or their quantities in any way. Only the preparation method would be changed.

Peter
EDIT: Corrected the amount of sponge flour.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 05:15:42 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 10:14:21 AM »
And the finished pizza itself...

Peter

Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2008, 11:02:30 PM »
Pete,

Could you verify the weight of flour in the preferment - the flour is showing as the same as the amount of the original recipe instead of the 60% mentioned in the sponge preparation.  Maybe I'm misreading your post?

This looks like one I'd like to try so I want to get it right (since I've had good luck with the JerryMac recipe.

Thanks,

Michelle

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2008, 11:16:18 PM »
Michelle,

I wish I could tell you that I put in the incorrect amount just to see who was paying attention. But it was simply an error, which I went back and corrected. Thank you for the keen eye. I hope you will let us know how you like the results if you decide to try the recipe.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 11:21:37 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2008, 10:00:10 AM »
Looks VERY nice, Peter! ;D

That is definitely a keeper recipe.   I'd like try that in a couple weeks when I get back from vacation. :chef:

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2008, 02:30:52 PM »
ME,

Thank you.

I was hesitant to modify JerryMac's recipe but ordinarily I would use a more classic sponge preferment with a small amount of the total yeast and a considerably longer preferment period. The bulk of the yeast would be reserved for the final mix. Maybe one of these days I will try the more classic sponge method with JerryMac's recipe. But for the first try, I wanted to see if I could make the sponge method work without changing JerryMac's recipe too much.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 08:27:25 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline candyman

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2008, 03:00:05 PM »
DKM and Peter.... fantastic looking pizzas!!  I need to either figure out how to take better pics of my pies or get a better camera.  Looks like you could eat yours right off the screen. Yum.  I'm gonna give this recipe a try next week when I get out of the hospital and recoup.  Till then, still have 3 more dough balls to use up in next couple days.  Again, looks great and can't wait to try it.

Joe
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Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2008, 06:30:41 PM »
I hope you will let us know how you like the results if you decide to try the recipe.

Peter

Will do - it's "in plan" for next week. 

I'm always in awe of the fantastic oven spring you get on the rims of your pizzas and the flavor from the standard JerryMac recipe has been the best I've had so far.

I usually do a 14" pizza on the stone in my Big Green Egg although I do have a large rectangular stone that lives in my regular oven as well.  I prefer the Egg because the home Monogram ZET2 oven has a hidden lower element, and doesn't seem to do as good a job on pizzas as my previous home's exposed-element Dacor oven.  Plus it's fun to cook pizza outside.   :)

Once our DFW area weather (we're in Denton) gets cold enough, though, I might try your method of changing placement throughout the cook in the regular oven to see if I can improve its pizza performance.  That would also let me do a full 16" pie since that's the size of screens I have.

Michelle

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2008, 06:46:47 PM »
Michelle,

With JerryMac's recipe, it is largely the combination of high hydration and a lot of yeast that is responsible for the oven spring. The high extensibility of the dough will also let you make a bigger rim if you want. Actually, the original pizza I wrote about in this thread had an even greater oven spring than the recent one. Technically, a NY style pizza does not have a large rim. I found that with JerryMac's recipe it is hard to get a small rim.

The crust of the most recent pizza was like a baguette, which shouldn't be surprising since sponge preferments are commonly used to make baguette dough. The crust of the original pizza was softer.

If you want to make a 14" pizza for your BGE, it is easy enough to change the dough formulation I posted for the 16" size, although it will be necessary to alter the quantities of ingredients to go into the sponge and into the final mix. If you need help with this, let me know.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 06:54:55 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline bolabola

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 07:17:27 PM »
ELittle, can I come to your house for dinner ;D
that pork tenderloin looks amazing..

I'm going to have to give this dough a try Peter..Thanks
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Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2008, 10:35:32 AM »

If you want to make a 14" pizza for your BGE, it is easy enough to change the dough formulation I posted for the 16" size, although it will be necessary to alter the quantities of ingredients to go into the sponge and into the final mix. If you need help with this, let me know.

Peter

Thanks for the offer, Pete.  I modify recipes between the 16" screen, 14" BGE, and 12" RV pizza pan all the time (and I'm an engineer), so I'm pretty good with Pie R Squared  ;) 

Michelle

Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2008, 08:09:13 PM »
Michelle,

I hope you will let us know how you like the results if you decide to try the recipe.

Peter

This week (yesterday) I finally got around to trying Pete's cold rise version of the Jerry Mac recipe (last week was a Chicago-style deep dish).  I used KABF and made a 14" pizza.  3 hours on the sponge preferment, a little over 48 hours in the fridge.

I also found that it benefited from being kneaded briefly when finally taken out of the fridge to assist in shaping after a 2 hour warm up.

After the 2 hours, I shaped it on my Silicone Zone pizza mat, I let it rest 20 minutes so that the rim wouldn't pull back too much.  I dressed the dough lightly with a mixture of minced garlic (3 cloves) and 1 Tablespoon of olive oil that was simmered until the garlic just started to color.  I do the oil ahead and let it cool so I can smear it on the dough with my fingers.  I then seasoned with a little fresh-ground black pepper and a sprinkling of kosher salt.  Sauce was Mario Batali's Basic Tomato Sauce.  Toppings were Central Market fresh mozzarella, fresh basil, sliced pepperoni, sliced pepperocini, and a dusting of parmeggiano reggiano (our standard pizza).

Since it was cool and windy here, this was done in the oven rather than the Big Green Egg, at 500 F.  My pizza stone was on the middle rack.  I used "bake" rather than "convection", since I find that works best in my Monogram oven.  This was the first time I've done pizza on the middle rack rather than the bottom one; I'd last baked some artisan bread and had forgotten to move the stone before preheating.  I started with the pizza on the silicone mat, but pulled the mat out from under the pizza after a few minutes so there could be direct contact with the stone.

Fabulous flavor, browning, and crispness!  Oh, and great oven spring - my best rim yet!  This one is a keeper and will be made as long as I remember "hey, it's Wednesday - time to make the dough" for our weekly Friday pizza.  And I will definitely leave the stone in the middle rack position.

Oh, and after I pulled the pizza and shut off the oven, I put a loaf of proofed artisan bread (deli rye from "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day") on the preheated stone and a pan of boiling water on the top rack.  Shut the door and set the timer for 40 minutes and now we have a fabulous loaf of "residual heat, low carbon footprint" artisan bread for the weekend's enjoyment.

Michelle

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2008, 08:45:14 PM »
Michelle,

I'm glad to see that you liked the "sponge"/cold ferment version of JerryMac's recipe. I've had a lot of fun and have learned a lot about commercial yeast preferments playing around with Jerry's fine recipe. I think it takes me longer to write up and take photos of what I have done than to actually make the pizza :-D.

Peter

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2008, 11:25:36 AM »
This week (yesterday) I finally got around to trying Pete's cold rise version of the Jerry Mac recipe (last week was a Chicago-style deep dish).  I used KABF and made a 14" pizza.  3 hours on the sponge preferment, a little over 48 hours in the fridge.

I also found that it benefited from being kneaded briefly when finally taken out of the fridge to assist in shaping after a 2 hour warm up.

After the 2 hours, I shaped it on my Silicone Zone pizza mat, I let it rest 20 minutes so that the rim wouldn't pull back too much.  I dressed the dough lightly with a mixture of minced garlic (3 cloves) and 1 Tablespoon of olive oil that was simmered until the garlic just started to color.  I do the oil ahead and let it cool so I can smear it on the dough with my fingers.  I then seasoned with a little fresh-ground black pepper and a sprinkling of kosher salt.  Sauce was Mario Batali's Basic Tomato Sauce.  Toppings were Central Market fresh mozzarella, fresh basil, sliced pepperoni, sliced pepperocini, and a dusting of parmeggiano reggiano (our standard pizza).

Since it was cool and windy here, this was done in the oven rather than the Big Green Egg, at 500 F.  My pizza stone was on the middle rack.  I used "bake" rather than "convection", since I find that works best in my Monogram oven.  This was the first time I've done pizza on the middle rack rather than the bottom one; I'd last baked some artisan bread and had forgotten to move the stone before preheating.  I started with the pizza on the silicone mat, but pulled the mat out from under the pizza after a few minutes so there could be direct contact with the stone.

Fabulous flavor, browning, and crispness!  Oh, and great oven spring - my best rim yet!  This one is a keeper and will be made as long as I remember "hey, it's Wednesday - time to make the dough" for our weekly Friday pizza.  And I will definitely leave the stone in the middle rack position.

Michelle

Oddly enough, I also finally got around to trying Peter's cold-rise JerryMac recipe this past weekend.  I followed the instructions Peter gave, except to mix the ingredients, I used a Cuisinart food processor (a new toy I just bought and have been itching to try out).  The initial dough rise was 3 hours, as Peter had done.  I noticed a fair amount of expansion but maybe not quite a doubling of the volume.  I then added the remaining amount of ingredients, placed the dough ball in an oiled bowl, covered with plastic wrap and placed in the refrigerator.  I left the dough in the frig for about 14 hours. 

Upon removing the dough, it appeared to have more than doubled in size with a couple large gas bubbles, but had not pushed off the plastic wrap cover.  I briefling kneaded the dough with folding about 3 times and laid the dough ball back into the bowl, recovered.  I let the dough rise at room temperature for about 2.5 hours.  The dough had risen again with more air bubbles (quite gassy as Peter described).  At this point, I decided the dough I had would make 1 very large pizza or 2 small pizzas, so I split the dough ball and made 2 pizzas of about 11" each, also using a silicone mat like Michelle did.

They both came out fine.  Plenty of spring, as Michelle has noted.  Pictures and more details on the finished product will come later.  Like Peter, I am not as quick on the picture thing as I am on making pizza. ;) 

Overall, I'd say it was definitely a winner. :pizza:  :D

-ME
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2008, 12:05:45 PM »
ME,

I'd love to see some photos of your pizzas, even if only for comparison purposes.

It was interesting to learn that you were able to use a food processor to make the dough, given its high hydration. Did you make the sponge in the food processor and finish the dough (the "final mix") in the processor also? I would have thought that the food processor would have a hard time kneading such a very high hydration dough without gumming up the works by having the dough seep under the blade and rendering the blade immobile. I wondered whether you added more flour to the food processor to get a workable dough. If you were able to avoid adding more flour to the processor bowl, that suggests that one may be able to make a hand-kneaded version of the dough, and possibly a bread machine version also.

The key point to keep in mind about the sponge, as with a poolish, is the break point. That is the point where the sponge starts to collapse after peaking. At the time of peaking, the top of the dough will usually be convex (like an upside down "U") with a lot of bubbles. When the sponge breaks, the surface becomes concave (like a right side up "U") and wrinkled. It will be obvious, especially if a lot of yeast is used, as is the case with Jerry's recipe. I have read that you don't have to immediately use the sponge at the moment it breaks, but one shouldn't delay such use for too long. I have waited an hour after the break point and found that it worked fine. All else being equal, the time it takes to reach the break point will be determined principally by the room temperature. It will happen sooner with a "summer time" sponge than with a "winter time" sponge. So, it is a good idea to allow enough time for the sponge to reach the break point before proceeding to the final mix.

Peter

Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2008, 12:42:40 PM »
I think it takes me longer to write up and take photos of what I have done than to actually make the pizza :-D.

Peter

Well, I for one (and I'm sure there are many others) are very grateful for the time and effort you put into translating your experiments and observations into text and photos.  Even though I've been making my own pizza for over 15 years, I learn something from each of your posts and they help me keep raising the bar on what I can achieve with my pizzas.  It helps especially (IIRC) that you're also from the Metroplex area, so we share some of the same climate, water chemistry, and ingredient availability.

Michelle

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2008, 01:21:17 PM »
Michele,

Thank you for the kind words.

We don't get a lot of feedback on the forum so it is hard to say whether I have raised the bar or lowered it, or simply scared people away. In some respects, I think the dough calculating tools and November's tools have helped lower the bar by freeing people from being locked into the constraints of recipes, pizza sizes, styles, etc. I have been impressed by how quickly some members have been able to use the tools to do their own recipe modification and to come up with new and original formulations. Unfortunately, too many such people leave the forum once they have succeeded.

Peter

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2008, 01:38:58 PM »
ME,

I'd love to see some photos of your pizzas, even if only for comparison purposes.

It was interesting to learn that you were able to use a food processor to make the dough, given its high hydration. Did you make the sponge in the food processor and finish the dough (the "final mix") in the processor also? I would have thought that the food processor would have a hard time kneading such a very high hydration dough without gumming up the works by having the dough seep under the blade and rendering the blade immobile. I wondered whether you added more flour to the food processor to get a workable dough. If you were able to avoid adding more flour to the processor bowl, that suggests that one may be able to make a hand-kneaded version of the dough, and possibly a bread machine version also.

The key point to keep in mind about the sponge, as with a poolish, is the break point. That is the point where the sponge starts to collapse after peaking. At the time of peaking, the top of the dough will usually be convex (like an upside down "U") with a lot of bubbles. When the sponge breaks, the surface becomes concave (like a right side up "U") and wrinkled. It will be obvious, especially if a lot of yeast is used, as is the case with Jerry's recipe. I have read that you don't have to immediately use the sponge at the moment it breaks, but one shouldn't delay such use for too long. I have waited an hour after the break point and found that it worked fine. All else being equal, the time it takes to reach the break point will be determined principally by the room temperature. It will happen sooner with a "summer time" sponge than with a "winter time" sponge. So, it is a good idea to allow enough time for the sponge to reach the break point before proceeding to the final mix.

Peter

Peter,

As soon as I can get my wife to download the photos to the computer, I'll post them.

The food processor was my own twist on the cold rise JerryMac recipe.  I did indeed make the sponge in the processor and added the final mix in there, as well.  As you said, I did notice some hanging up of the food processor after adding the remaining ingredients, but I simply stopped-started the machine and it got the job done.  Consequently, my sponge looked different that what you described and the picture you posted.  I did not take a picture of the sponge, only of the final product(s).  I did not try to let it knead for 3 minutes.  It was more like half that time.  I am wondering if I had added, say a few more tablespoons of bread flour, if it would have made it easier on the Cuisinart. 

The model of food processor I bought and used is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-DLC-2011BCN-Processor-Brushed-Chrome/dp/B00004WKI1/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Cuisinart also makes a 14-cup model, which may be the only volume they produce in this model now.  I bought mine at Bed Bath & Beyond.  It comes with a dough blade and function.  My original reason for buying one (besides needing a larger food processor) was to use it in making the Round Table pizza clone dough, but since I have been wanting to try this recipe since you posted it, I thought I'd try it and see if the machine would work and cut the mustard (or dough in this case).

Thanks for the info on the break time.   :chef:

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2008, 09:56:33 AM »
Here are the photos of my Pete-zza modified JerryMac recipe from November 15th.  Refer to my post up above for my previous comments.  Notice the expansion and gas bubbles after the refrigerated rise. 

I had a couple more close ups of the crust-spring, but they were too blurry to post.  I must have either used a bad setting on our camera or got too close. 

All-in-all, an experiment that came out quite well.  I will probably use again, but in the meantime I like to try different recipes.  I'll probably go back to trying my Round Table clone this next weekend after all of the turkey. ;D

Let them eat pizza.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2008, 09:59:34 AM »
... and some more photos from the same experiment.  I used Italian sausage, mushrooms, and tomatoes on the first pizza with a tangier sauce and the second pizza used a milder sauce with just the sausage and mushrooms.  The cheese was a standard mix of mozz, provolone, and cheddar, only I upped the amount of prov and cheddar for these pies.

I am inclined to agree with Peter regarding the dough in that I think this could be hand-kneaded as opposed to a mixer or food processor, although I think it would take someone with experience due mainly to the consistency of the dough.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 10:01:11 AM by Mad_Ernie »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2008, 04:41:47 PM »
ME,

Thank you for posting the photos. I did not experience anywhere near the activity that your dough did. As previously reported, in my case the dough pushed up against the lid of my container but it was a gentle push with no signs of large bubbles or anything like that.

As I also previously noted, I think that the preferment method with so much yeast is hard on sugar creation (it depletes it quickly), making it difficult to get more color in the finished crust, even with a fair amount of added sugar (or honey or barley malt syrup). I think crust coloration might be improved by using considerably less yeast (and maybe a longer preferment time) if the dough is to be cold fermented.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 05:18:42 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2008, 03:19:35 PM »
ME,

Thank you for posting the photos. I did not experience anywhere near the activity that your dough did.

As I also previously noted, I think that the preferment method with so much yeast is hard on sugar creation, making it difficult to get more color in the finished crust, even with a fair amount of added sugar (or honey or barley malt syrup).


Pete,

I also haven't had quite the dough activity that Mad_Ernie did.  I've done 2 Pete-zaa Jerry-Mac recipes, and while airier and lighter after the cold rise, I didn't see the large air bubbles.  Of note, my fridge is 36-37 degrees and the dough is stored in my 3 qt. metal Kitchenaid mixer bowl.  Perhaps ME's fridge is warmer than that?

With my preheated 500 degree stone on "bake" in my oven, I get outstanding crust coloration, particularly on the bottom.  I do dust my silicon pizza mat with a little semolina flour first, and pull the mat out from under the pizza after I start to see the crust crisping away from the mat (just a few minutes).  I do also dress the top of the skin with the garlic olive oil I mentioned in my post, "brushing/smearing" in on with my fingers and covering the rim as well so the edge gets a nice speckling of dark.  I will try to get some photos of the next one (tonight) and try to get them posted.

Maybe I'll remember to photograph the residual-heat artisan bread, too.

Michelle