Author Topic: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza  (Read 41281 times)

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Offline ELittle

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2009, 08:29:24 PM »
Im making another one tonight, did i meantion i love this recipe!  >:D


Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2009, 07:15:59 AM »


Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Salt – Morton’s Kosher (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):
322.02 g  |  11.36 oz | 0.71 lbs
218.97 g  |  7.72 oz | 0.48 lbs
4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
15.18 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.17 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
565.75 g | 19.96 oz | 1.25 lbs | TF = 0.0992532


To prepare the poolish, I started by combining all of the flour (sifted) with all of the IDY. I then put all of the formula water, 7.72 oz., into the mixer bowl of my basic KitchenAid stand mixer. Using the whisk attachment at stir speed, I then gradually added 7.72 ounces of the flour/IDY to the water in the mixer bowl. When all of the flour was incorporated into the water, I removed the whisk attachment.
Peter,
So I got some honey, so...

Just curious, and somewhere in the 2 threads and 12 pages of this recipe it's probably answered, Jerry initially had 45-50% flour in for poolish, and 50-55% remaining. You went with 67.9% for poolish and 32.1% for remaining. Just wondering why? Also, did anyone ever do a 12" version of this, with poolish and post ferment ingredients listed in grams/ ounces? If not don't trouble yourself doing so, I'll just make it as is and toss some to make up the 1-2" difference. My real q is the difference in poolish %.

Also you state "At the end of that time, the dough was punched down, reshaped, and allowed to proof for another 1 ½ hours." was that 1.5 hrs dusted and plastic wrap covered?

SD girl hounds me daily about how good this pizza is. "Did ya make Mac yet?!! How about today?! Gonna make it tomorrow?!" Ok not really, but she's a big fan, and it seems to be very popular. As this is a 1 day counter rise dough I'm going to try and hand knead a couple pies today and see what happens. It can be done! The more I hand knead the more I believe a strong arm, strong hands, and a metal or wooden spoon have just as much power as any mixer for small 2-3 ball batches, probably more actually, lol.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 07:39:37 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2009, 11:01:24 AM »
J,

Since I was converting JerryMac's recipe from volume measurements to weight measurements and also scaling the recipe for a different size pizza, I don't recall doing the calculations you mentioned. However, I believe the reason my numbers are not the same as JerryMac's is because I used a "true" poolish in a technical and classical sense, which entails combining equal weights of flour and water such that the hydration is 100%. In JerryMac's case, the weight of the water is more than the weight of the flour that goes into his "poolish-like" preferment such that the preferment has a hydration of over 100% (based on my conversion of the volume amounts of flour and water he uses for his preferment). I think using the classic poolish method makes the math easier, especially when scaling the recipe, because the weights of the formula water and the flour that go into the poolish are the same. Otherwise, you would have to do an apportionment calculation each time you scaled the recipe to a different size pizza.

As for your question about the second proof of the dough, it was also done in the covered Rubbermaid container. To be sure that that is clear, I amended the opening post in this thread.

For a 12" version of the dough formulation I posted in the opening post in this thread, I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to produce the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):
181.84 g  |  6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs
123.65 g  |  4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs
2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401
Note: For a single 12" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.096738; bowl residue compensation = 3%

You will note that I used a bowl residue compensation of 3%. I selected that value since you will be making the dough by hand, where the dough losses tend to be higher than when using a machine.

Peter

« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:55:41 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2009, 11:39:22 AM »
Thanks very much Peter, I follow you now. Thus I have 123g room temp water, 123g sifted flour and 68% of .82 tsp IDY (.55tsp) whipped up and covered. (I don't trust my sifter with yeast)

Yes, it's definitely not very ''pool-like'' for a poolish, more of a ''batterish'' I'd say.

I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to produce the following:


Yes, I'm very glad you can use that, lol. I tried once and a big red error message came up saying "STOP! You don't know what you're doing! Please ask Peter before you break me!"
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 12:12:34 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2009, 01:37:16 PM »
J,

LOL.

I hadn't mentioned it earlier, but another thing I did to simplify matters was to add all of the IDY to the flour at the outset. That throws the hydration numbers off a bit and represents a different apportionment of the IDY to the poolish and the rest of the ingredients than JerryMac uses but my approach makes sure that you don't forget to add yeast to the final mix or make other kinds of mistakes. With my approach, at the time of the final mix, you just add the remaining flour/IDY (the part not used for the poolish), the salt, and the honey (or malt syrup) to the poolish. This approach is transparent to any scaling effects so it doesn't matter what size pizza you are making. Of course, if you want to be true to JerryMac's method, you can apportion the IDY between the preferment and the rest of the formula ingredients in any way you want. In JerryMac's case, he puts half of the IDY in the preferment and the other half in the final mix.

Peter

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »


SD girl hounds me daily about how good this pizza is. "Did ya make Mac yet?!! How about today?! Gonna make it tomorrow?!" Ok not really, but she's a big fan, and it seems to be very popular. As this is a 1 day counter rise dough I'm going to try and hand knead a couple pies today and see what happens. It can be done! The more I hand knead the more I believe a strong arm, strong hands, and a metal or wooden spoon have just as much power as any mixer for small 2-3 ball batches, probably more actually, lol.

Jim,

Glad I "hounded" you enough to get you to try it!!  I'm sure, with your hand knead expertise, the dough will turn out just fine!  Can't wait to see pics of the results!  Tonight??  Huh? HUH?  Pics TONIGHT??   :-D

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2009, 07:34:46 PM »
Very Funny!  ;D

Ok, soooo it kneads by hand! It's sticky as can be, and loads of fun! I had to alter the recipe slightly to make it happen tonight, as I initially thought there was one 1.5 hr rise after the 5 hr rest. There's two. Achem.  Anyway, I did a 4 hr poolish rest. What was batter turned into a huge risen mass of bubbles! The 1st rise after forming was in container, for 1.5 hrs. The second I went back to Jerry's original way and covered dusted on board. After about 1:15 it was huge and looked ready to me. The dough was not as sticky as I feared, wet, but not too sticky. It was hard to stretch though as it flopped around a lot, so the middle wanted to go too thin. I worked it out and put it on a peel with light oil...and flour...and cornmeal. (just to be safe) Baked 4 mins, broiled last 2.

Review: This is a beautiful tasting pizza! So soft and light. Whole different scene from the Lehmann which is  crispier and tougher. The rim I did nothing to as far as oil, it browned like a champ, but not hard rimmed at all. I was shocked at how good it was, that poolish 4-5hr thing is just amazing. I was hesitant thinking 'honey in pizza?' My bad, it's sweet and sublime. Each bite I was more taken by it, truly. I also saw how in others pics this pizza had no char, instead a nice golden color. I thought it was maybe camera light, nope! It bakes gold, I'm talkin' goose who laid the golden pizza gold!

Hats off to Mac! (And thanks for Pete's help) Very good recipe. Shockingly good for a same day dough. It's insulting to even say that as it has no resemblance to any same day I ever tried. Love it, 4 stars. 

Pics for sd, and there's even a subliminal tribute to Mac himself, lol.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:04:12 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2009, 08:24:12 PM »
Nicely done!!  Nice tribute to Jerry, too... he'd be tickled!
I guess my credibility just popped up a notch, eh?     ;D   Glad you loved it!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #68 on: April 21, 2009, 09:10:02 PM »
Yes, not that it was ever low. lol. I always believe all you say, you were really right on this though, unlike the land in Florida and A.I.G. calls you sold me. The great pizza makes up for it all though.

 :)

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2009, 10:28:45 PM »
Yes, not that it was ever low. lol. I always believe all you say, you were really right on this though, unlike the land in Florida and A.I.G. calls you sold me. The great pizza makes up for it all though.

 :)

pffffttttt.........  you are SUCH a kidder!  We could use a little more levity on these boards once in a while, so thanks for the chuckle.... and enjoy JerryMac's pizza!  It's even BETTER in a high-heat 2stone oven where it gets a little char!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!


Offline JConk007

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2009, 09:37:54 PM »
SD.
Do I dare try this in the WFO say around 750? I am concerned with the honey? thoughts?
John
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Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2009, 10:12:37 PM »
SD.
Do I dare try this in the WFO say around 750? I am concerned with the honey? thoughts?
John

John,
When I make this dough for the 2stone (also at ~750) I leave out the honey.  I think that Jerry put the honey in for better browning at lower kitchen oven temps and so it's not necessary for high heat.  I hope you try this in your WFO and report back to us!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline JerryMac

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2009, 12:10:43 AM »
NY pizzastriver,

My God, Thank You, !!!!!!!!!!!   I'm blown away !!!!!!!!!!

I knew this dough was goood, but, again, Thank you !!!!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mangia Molte Bene  :chef:
Jerry

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2009, 10:52:41 AM »
^ No thank you Jerry, great dough. Made another last night. I have made pizza like 3x this week, lol, but I'm leaving tomorrow on a trip and I'll be without my pizza for a week! I've been making all I can to hold me over. Once again, fabulous!

 :chef: :pizza:

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Keith_Doughboy

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2009, 04:32:13 PM »
Peter,

I am attempting this tonight, using the method in post #1. I mixed the poolish at 11:00 am PST. It is now 1:30 pm, so 2.5 hrs in. The poolish billowed up nicely, but has peaked and is now receding in the last 20 mins or so. Room temp is nearly 80 degrees (So. Cal hot and dry today). Do I wait the entire 5 hrs, or when do I know visually when the poolish is at its optimum prefermentation? Timewise to coordinate actual dinner, is there a 'range' to work with as it relates to the poolish, or the next steps? It'd be nice if there is a bit of flexibilty of anywhere from 30 mins or greater anywhere in the recipe phases. Thanks!

- Keith

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2009, 06:03:51 PM »
Keith,

What you are referring to is the "break point". I discussed this facet at Reply 42 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg63782.html#msg63782. I would say that optimally you don't want to go too far beyond the break point but, as a practical matter, I believe that there is a reasonable window after the break point in which to use the poolish. It's hard to give specific values because of variations in room temperature from case to case. The risk is that there will be too much sugar depletion during the preferment stage, leaving too little residual sugar at the time of baking to provide good crust coloration. In your case, with such a high room temperature, you might temporarily put the poolish in the refrigerator if you are several hours away from using the poolish. That will slow down the prefermentation activity. Remember, also, that there are two fermentation periods after the poolish is incorporated into the final mix. So, you should do the math to have everything come together at the right time.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Offline Keith_Doughboy

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2009, 12:11:31 AM »
All went according to the best of plans, but, in the end, really didn't care for it... it WAS good, but maybe not being raised on NY style left me a bit flat on opinion.

I didn't care for working with the dough very much. That probably says more about my inabilities and inexperience with pizza doughs more than it says about a recipe. I'm sure working with something that sticky takes more skill than I have atm. I did get it done, though it was a LOT of work. Based on the work involved, the time involved, and the lack of a finished product that blew me away, I'll be going back to New Faithful while I search for another one to experiment with.

Bottomline, it went as all the other posts described to a 'T' and it looked like all the posted pictures. It just wasn't my cup in the end. I enjoyed the back crust, and might make a very small batch of this for some dipping breadsticks. I did like the honey, it was just the right amount. I'm thinking about replacing the sugar in New Faithful with some honey. I'll get the texture I'm used to, and maybe a slightly sweeter taste. Who knows...?

Thanks for answering my post quick enough to save it from going to far past breaking point, Peter! The rises were all very robust, and excellent oven spring! You might want to put the info about the poolish breaking point in the original post, since it only refers to '5 hours' and the relevant 'visual' indicators aren't discussed until post #40-something.

Welp, back to recipe sleuthing!  :chef:

- Keith

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #77 on: May 06, 2009, 09:27:34 AM »
Kevin,

It's not a crime not to love, or even like, any pizza. Hopefully, you learned something from the exercise.

I will revisit the opening post to see if there is a way of incorporating the break point issue into the instructions. When I started that post, I was trying to stick as closely as possible to JerryMac's script, which called for 4-5 hours of prefermentation without qualification. Also, JerryMac's "poolish" was somewhat unorthodox because it did not conform to the classic poolish that many baker's use and in which the break point is critical to achieving consistent results. So, even though I was cognizant of the break point issue, I wasn't trying to educate anyone on that matter. As you will see as you hang around the forum for a while, recipes and threads can take on lives of their own as members make their own changes, whether intentional or accidental. I eventually introduced the break point issue into the thread when I made a "sponge" preferment version of JerryMac's recipe, which I described at Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg62814.html#msg62814.

If you like honey or sugar in your dough, you might consider Peter Reinhart's NY style dough recipe that is described in this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8100.0.html. It is a fairly popular recipe even though I do not believe that it is nearly as authentic as other NY style recipes, which usually omit sugar and, in some cases, the oil.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2009, 10:53:54 AM »
Peter! How ya been, lol. So what would this single ball be at 15". Sorry to be a p.i.a. today, but the good news is I only cook these 3 pizzas!

Flour (100%):181.84 g  |  6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs
Water (68%):123.65 g  |  4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs
IDY (1.3575%):2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%):2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
Honey (4.71332%):8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
Total (175.68845%):319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401

Thanks a million!
J
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline JRo

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2009, 12:19:21 PM »
Usually when I make pizza I go with the Camaldoli starter and the usual dough calculator route.  It's a several day process getting the starter re-activated, making dough to go in the fridge for a couple days, etc.  Last night was pizza night, and all week I hadn't got around to making dough, and about a month ago I dropped and killed my starter.

So what to do?  Searching for a one-day dough recipe I came across JerryMac's original volume measurement thread and decided to give that a try.  After wading through the endless sea of smileys   :) ;) :D  ;D >:( :(   I had a wet, sticky dough that smelled pretty good for a one-dayer.

They cooked up great (sorry no pics), and were very tasty.  I cooked them at about 550F instead of the usual 700F.  It wasn't "quite" as good as the usual method, I prefer it a touch crisper/chewier, and the starter/longer ferment definitely adds some additional taste, but these were excellent and MUCH less work than normal.

Hat's off Jerry.  An excellent pie without it having to be a weeklong endeavor.