Author Topic: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza  (Read 47350 times)

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Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2008, 04:25:26 PM »
As promised, here are some photos (hope I do this right) of my second and third "Pete-zaa JerryMac NY Style":

First crust is pie 2, last photo is pie 2, pepperoni and pepperocini.

Second crust and third photo are pie 3, pepperoni and pickled red jalapenos

I hadn't photographed the first pie I made with this method. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 04:53:36 PM by mkc »


Offline mkc

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2008, 04:33:28 PM »
And here's the artisan rye bread I baked with the residual heat from pie 1


Offline LisaMT

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2009, 08:57:10 PM »
Hi,

I am new to this site, I have been lurking for awhile and finally registered last weekend. Pizza is my first love (don't tell my husband  :-X).

My questions, I just made the poolish and realized after the fact that you used KA bread flour, I used KASL. will my pizza still work?

Thanks and love the site,
Lisa

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2009, 09:20:47 PM »
My questions, I just made the poolish and realized after the fact that you used KA bread flour, I used KASL. will my pizza still work?


Lisa,

It should still work. Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Offline LisaMT

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2009, 05:24:24 PM »
Hi,

Just finished the pizza made with KASL; it turned out well. My only issue, the pizza lacked the crispiness of a NY pizza. I am pretty sure I know why. I baked the pizza on a 16" perforated disk in a 500 degree oven on a pizza stone. I think I should have baked it longer (I baked for 10min) or slipped it off the disk directly onto the stone for an additional 5 minutes.

One more issue, the dough tasted okay, but the crust had a dull look to it, not sure what can be done about that. All in all the dough stretched beautifully and my husband said it was delicious. Personally, I think I can do better :).

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2009, 07:11:28 PM »
Lisa,

It is also possible that the high sugar content of the dough formulation, in the form of honey or barley malt syrup, is responsible for the tenderness and reduced crispness of the finished crust that you experienced. The classic NY style crust uses no sugar. The dough formulation you used calls for about 4.7%, which is a lot of sugar and will produce a softness in the finished crust because sugar is hygroscopic and attracts and retains water. You could leave the sugar out but if you do that you will perhaps not have enough residual sugar in the dough to contribute to decent crust coloration at the time of baking. A good part of the problem is that a high-hydration preferment like a poolish is a very active preferment and can can significantly deplete sugar levels, especially if the yeast level in the poolish is high, as it is in this case. To address that problem, you would have to consider adding diastatic malt to the dough formulation as part of the final mix. However, I suspect that one would also have to re-design the entire dough formulation and particularly the poolish part to really solve the sugar depletion problem. The diastatic malt alone may be inadequate.

As for the dullness of the finished crust, it would help if you could post photos to get a better idea as to what you mean. However, I will say that it is common for crusts that are based on using preferments to have a certain dullness to them, possibly because of low residual sugar (simple sugars) to be available for caramelization purposes and as part of the Maillard reaction during the baking process (for a discussion of the Maillard reaction, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction). You might consider brushing the unbaked rim with some olive oil to get increased crust coloration, and maybe a bit more sheen, because of the good heat transfer characteristics of the olive oil. You might also try using a water/sugar solution.

Peter

Offline LisaMT

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2009, 07:25:01 PM »
Thank you Peter for taking the time to analyze my pizza problems. I was thinking more about what I could have done wrong and your explanation confirms my suspicion. I did the 15 hour prefermentation followed by two rises; however, after the second rise I did not touch the dough for a good 3.5 hours (in total) which according to your explanation I may have depleted the sugar entirely.  I will try the recipe again next weekend and post pictures.

Thank you,
Lisa

Offline WestCountry

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2009, 10:03:16 PM »
Hi,

I used the recipe in the first post of this thread and it worked GREAT, dough handled really well!

Here are some details:
-I did not use honey or sugar (because I cooked at high heat in a 2Stone Inferno oven).
-I only used .5 tsp sea salt because I made a mistake on that measurement.
-I used KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour)
-Instead of one 16-inch pie, I made this into two 11-inch pies (263 grams each) with the same dough formulation. (Don’t ask me why my total was so far from Peter’s 565.75 grams, I have not figured that out yet…)

….The first pizza (pepperoni and fresh cilantro) was cooked when stone hit around 620 degrees.
 
….The second pie (pepperoni, red bell pepper, fresh garlic) was cooked when stone hit around 725 degrees.

Both were really good, but the second one was definitely better with the high temperature (cooked quicker, had more char on top and bottom and more crispy).

I also tried this recipe using the honey last week, and cooked it at the high heat (700-750 degrees), but it burned too much (I think because of the honey).

I highly recommend this recipe for a one-day dough, and I have had good success with it in the kitchen oven at 550 degrees and now at higher temperatures of 700-750 degrees.

Hope you enjoy the photos!

A big thanks to you all for support here in this forum, and especially Peter, Sourdough Girl and of course JerryMac.

Chris
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 10:08:08 PM by WestCountry »

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2009, 10:11:14 PM »
Chris,
Those pizzas look absolutely perfect!  Job well done!  Don't you just love the 2stone?

(You're making me HUNGRY!) 

Thanks for the thanks, it's appreciated... I defer to Peter and JerryMac who have done the real work on this recipe, IMHO.

~sd

Never trust a skinny cook!


Offline WestCountry

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2009, 11:01:16 PM »
SD Girl-
Thanks for the nice feedback. Yes - the 2Stone is a lot of fun, and now I have great success with this recipe at both higher heat and medium heat ranges!

All,
Just thinking out loud here, since I like to experiment, I am thinking of trying this recipe with a 50%/50%  flour combination (e.g. KABF/Caputo 00, or maybe KABF/KASL), just to see the difference. If I do it, I will for sure post on how it turns out. Or if anyone has tried this, please let me know.

Thanks,
Chris



Offline ELittle

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2009, 08:29:24 PM »
Im making another one tonight, did i meantion i love this recipe!  >:D

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2009, 07:15:59 AM »


Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Salt – Morton’s Kosher (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):
322.02 g  |  11.36 oz | 0.71 lbs
218.97 g  |  7.72 oz | 0.48 lbs
4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
15.18 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.17 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
565.75 g | 19.96 oz | 1.25 lbs | TF = 0.0992532


To prepare the poolish, I started by combining all of the flour (sifted) with all of the IDY. I then put all of the formula water, 7.72 oz., into the mixer bowl of my basic KitchenAid stand mixer. Using the whisk attachment at stir speed, I then gradually added 7.72 ounces of the flour/IDY to the water in the mixer bowl. When all of the flour was incorporated into the water, I removed the whisk attachment.
Peter,
So I got some honey, so...

Just curious, and somewhere in the 2 threads and 12 pages of this recipe it's probably answered, Jerry initially had 45-50% flour in for poolish, and 50-55% remaining. You went with 67.9% for poolish and 32.1% for remaining. Just wondering why? Also, did anyone ever do a 12" version of this, with poolish and post ferment ingredients listed in grams/ ounces? If not don't trouble yourself doing so, I'll just make it as is and toss some to make up the 1-2" difference. My real q is the difference in poolish %.

Also you state "At the end of that time, the dough was punched down, reshaped, and allowed to proof for another 1 ˝ hours." was that 1.5 hrs dusted and plastic wrap covered?

SD girl hounds me daily about how good this pizza is. "Did ya make Mac yet?!! How about today?! Gonna make it tomorrow?!" Ok not really, but she's a big fan, and it seems to be very popular. As this is a 1 day counter rise dough I'm going to try and hand knead a couple pies today and see what happens. It can be done! The more I hand knead the more I believe a strong arm, strong hands, and a metal or wooden spoon have just as much power as any mixer for small 2-3 ball batches, probably more actually, lol.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 07:39:37 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2009, 11:01:24 AM »
J,

Since I was converting JerryMac's recipe from volume measurements to weight measurements and also scaling the recipe for a different size pizza, I don't recall doing the calculations you mentioned. However, I believe the reason my numbers are not the same as JerryMac's is because I used a "true" poolish in a technical and classical sense, which entails combining equal weights of flour and water such that the hydration is 100%. In JerryMac's case, the weight of the water is more than the weight of the flour that goes into his "poolish-like" preferment such that the preferment has a hydration of over 100% (based on my conversion of the volume amounts of flour and water he uses for his preferment). I think using the classic poolish method makes the math easier, especially when scaling the recipe, because the weights of the formula water and the flour that go into the poolish are the same. Otherwise, you would have to do an apportionment calculation each time you scaled the recipe to a different size pizza.

As for your question about the second proof of the dough, it was also done in the covered Rubbermaid container. To be sure that that is clear, I amended the opening post in this thread.

For a 12" version of the dough formulation I posted in the opening post in this thread, I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to produce the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):
181.84 g  |  6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs
123.65 g  |  4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs
2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401
Note: For a single 12" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.096738; bowl residue compensation = 3%

You will note that I used a bowl residue compensation of 3%. I selected that value since you will be making the dough by hand, where the dough losses tend to be higher than when using a machine.

Peter

« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:55:41 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2009, 11:39:22 AM »
Thanks very much Peter, I follow you now. Thus I have 123g room temp water, 123g sifted flour and 68% of .82 tsp IDY (.55tsp) whipped up and covered. (I don't trust my sifter with yeast)

Yes, it's definitely not very ''pool-like'' for a poolish, more of a ''batterish'' I'd say.

I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to produce the following:

Yes, I'm very glad you can use that, lol. I tried once and a big red error message came up saying "STOP! You don't know what you're doing! Please ask Peter before you break me!"
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 12:12:34 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2009, 01:37:16 PM »
J,

LOL.

I hadn't mentioned it earlier, but another thing I did to simplify matters was to add all of the IDY to the flour at the outset. That throws the hydration numbers off a bit and represents a different apportionment of the IDY to the poolish and the rest of the ingredients than JerryMac uses but my approach makes sure that you don't forget to add yeast to the final mix or make other kinds of mistakes. With my approach, at the time of the final mix, you just add the remaining flour/IDY (the part not used for the poolish), the salt, and the honey (or malt syrup) to the poolish. This approach is transparent to any scaling effects so it doesn't matter what size pizza you are making. Of course, if you want to be true to JerryMac's method, you can apportion the IDY between the preferment and the rest of the formula ingredients in any way you want. In JerryMac's case, he puts half of the IDY in the preferment and the other half in the final mix.

Peter

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »


SD girl hounds me daily about how good this pizza is. "Did ya make Mac yet?!! How about today?! Gonna make it tomorrow?!" Ok not really, but she's a big fan, and it seems to be very popular. As this is a 1 day counter rise dough I'm going to try and hand knead a couple pies today and see what happens. It can be done! The more I hand knead the more I believe a strong arm, strong hands, and a metal or wooden spoon have just as much power as any mixer for small 2-3 ball batches, probably more actually, lol.

Jim,

Glad I "hounded" you enough to get you to try it!!  I'm sure, with your hand knead expertise, the dough will turn out just fine!  Can't wait to see pics of the results!  Tonight??  Huh? HUH?  Pics TONIGHT??   :-D

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2009, 07:34:46 PM »
Very Funny!  ;D

Ok, soooo it kneads by hand! It's sticky as can be, and loads of fun! I had to alter the recipe slightly to make it happen tonight, as I initially thought there was one 1.5 hr rise after the 5 hr rest. There's two. Achem.  Anyway, I did a 4 hr poolish rest. What was batter turned into a huge risen mass of bubbles! The 1st rise after forming was in container, for 1.5 hrs. The second I went back to Jerry's original way and covered dusted on board. After about 1:15 it was huge and looked ready to me. The dough was not as sticky as I feared, wet, but not too sticky. It was hard to stretch though as it flopped around a lot, so the middle wanted to go too thin. I worked it out and put it on a peel with light oil...and flour...and cornmeal. (just to be safe) Baked 4 mins, broiled last 2.

Review: This is a beautiful tasting pizza! So soft and light. Whole different scene from the Lehmann which is  crispier and tougher. The rim I did nothing to as far as oil, it browned like a champ, but not hard rimmed at all. I was shocked at how good it was, that poolish 4-5hr thing is just amazing. I was hesitant thinking 'honey in pizza?' My bad, it's sweet and sublime. Each bite I was more taken by it, truly. I also saw how in others pics this pizza had no char, instead a nice golden color. I thought it was maybe camera light, nope! It bakes gold, I'm talkin' goose who laid the golden pizza gold!

Hats off to Mac! (And thanks for Pete's help) Very good recipe. Shockingly good for a same day dough. It's insulting to even say that as it has no resemblance to any same day I ever tried. Love it, 4 stars. 

Pics for sd, and there's even a subliminal tribute to Mac himself, lol.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:04:12 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2009, 08:24:12 PM »
Nicely done!!  Nice tribute to Jerry, too... he'd be tickled!
I guess my credibility just popped up a notch, eh?     ;D   Glad you loved it!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #68 on: April 21, 2009, 09:10:02 PM »
Yes, not that it was ever low. lol. I always believe all you say, you were really right on this though, unlike the land in Florida and A.I.G. calls you sold me. The great pizza makes up for it all though.

 :)

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2009, 10:28:45 PM »
Yes, not that it was ever low. lol. I always believe all you say, you were really right on this though, unlike the land in Florida and A.I.G. calls you sold me. The great pizza makes up for it all though.

 :)

pffffttttt.........  you are SUCH a kidder!  We could use a little more levity on these boards once in a while, so thanks for the chuckle.... and enjoy JerryMac's pizza!  It's even BETTER in a high-heat 2stone oven where it gets a little char!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline JConk007

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2009, 09:37:54 PM »
SD.
Do I dare try this in the WFO say around 750? I am concerned with the honey? thoughts?
John
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Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2009, 10:12:37 PM »
SD.
Do I dare try this in the WFO say around 750? I am concerned with the honey? thoughts?
John

John,
When I make this dough for the 2stone (also at ~750) I leave out the honey.  I think that Jerry put the honey in for better browning at lower kitchen oven temps and so it's not necessary for high heat.  I hope you try this in your WFO and report back to us!

~sd
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Offline JerryMac

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2009, 12:10:43 AM »
NY pizzastriver,

My God, Thank You, !!!!!!!!!!!   I'm blown away !!!!!!!!!!

I knew this dough was goood, but, again, Thank you !!!!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mangia Molte Bene  :chef:
Jerry

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2009, 10:52:41 AM »
^ No thank you Jerry, great dough. Made another last night. I have made pizza like 3x this week, lol, but I'm leaving tomorrow on a trip and I'll be without my pizza for a week! I've been making all I can to hold me over. Once again, fabulous!

 :chef: :pizza:

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Keith_Doughboy

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2009, 04:32:13 PM »
Peter,

I am attempting this tonight, using the method in post #1. I mixed the poolish at 11:00 am PST. It is now 1:30 pm, so 2.5 hrs in. The poolish billowed up nicely, but has peaked and is now receding in the last 20 mins or so. Room temp is nearly 80 degrees (So. Cal hot and dry today). Do I wait the entire 5 hrs, or when do I know visually when the poolish is at its optimum prefermentation? Timewise to coordinate actual dinner, is there a 'range' to work with as it relates to the poolish, or the next steps? It'd be nice if there is a bit of flexibilty of anywhere from 30 mins or greater anywhere in the recipe phases. Thanks!

- Keith


 

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