Author Topic: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza  (Read 49226 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2009, 06:03:51 PM »
Keith,

What you are referring to is the "break point". I discussed this facet at Reply 42 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg63782.html#msg63782. I would say that optimally you don't want to go too far beyond the break point but, as a practical matter, I believe that there is a reasonable window after the break point in which to use the poolish. It's hard to give specific values because of variations in room temperature from case to case. The risk is that there will be too much sugar depletion during the preferment stage, leaving too little residual sugar at the time of baking to provide good crust coloration. In your case, with such a high room temperature, you might temporarily put the poolish in the refrigerator if you are several hours away from using the poolish. That will slow down the prefermentation activity. Remember, also, that there are two fermentation periods after the poolish is incorporated into the final mix. So, you should do the math to have everything come together at the right time.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter


Offline Keith_Doughboy

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2009, 12:11:31 AM »
All went according to the best of plans, but, in the end, really didn't care for it... it WAS good, but maybe not being raised on NY style left me a bit flat on opinion.

I didn't care for working with the dough very much. That probably says more about my inabilities and inexperience with pizza doughs more than it says about a recipe. I'm sure working with something that sticky takes more skill than I have atm. I did get it done, though it was a LOT of work. Based on the work involved, the time involved, and the lack of a finished product that blew me away, I'll be going back to New Faithful while I search for another one to experiment with.

Bottomline, it went as all the other posts described to a 'T' and it looked like all the posted pictures. It just wasn't my cup in the end. I enjoyed the back crust, and might make a very small batch of this for some dipping breadsticks. I did like the honey, it was just the right amount. I'm thinking about replacing the sugar in New Faithful with some honey. I'll get the texture I'm used to, and maybe a slightly sweeter taste. Who knows...?

Thanks for answering my post quick enough to save it from going to far past breaking point, Peter! The rises were all very robust, and excellent oven spring! You might want to put the info about the poolish breaking point in the original post, since it only refers to '5 hours' and the relevant 'visual' indicators aren't discussed until post #40-something.

Welp, back to recipe sleuthing!  :chef:

- Keith

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #77 on: May 06, 2009, 09:27:34 AM »
Kevin,

It's not a crime not to love, or even like, any pizza. Hopefully, you learned something from the exercise.

I will revisit the opening post to see if there is a way of incorporating the break point issue into the instructions. When I started that post, I was trying to stick as closely as possible to JerryMac's script, which called for 4-5 hours of prefermentation without qualification. Also, JerryMac's "poolish" was somewhat unorthodox because it did not conform to the classic poolish that many baker's use and in which the break point is critical to achieving consistent results. So, even though I was cognizant of the break point issue, I wasn't trying to educate anyone on that matter. As you will see as you hang around the forum for a while, recipes and threads can take on lives of their own as members make their own changes, whether intentional or accidental. I eventually introduced the break point issue into the thread when I made a "sponge" preferment version of JerryMac's recipe, which I described at Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg62814.html#msg62814.

If you like honey or sugar in your dough, you might consider Peter Reinhart's NY style dough recipe that is described in this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8100.0.html. It is a fairly popular recipe even though I do not believe that it is nearly as authentic as other NY style recipes, which usually omit sugar and, in some cases, the oil.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2009, 10:53:54 AM »
Peter! How ya been, lol. So what would this single ball be at 15". Sorry to be a p.i.a. today, but the good news is I only cook these 3 pizzas!

Flour (100%):181.84 g  |  6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs
Water (68%):123.65 g  |  4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs
IDY (1.3575%):2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%):2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
Honey (4.71332%):8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
Total (175.68845%):319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401

Thanks a million!
J
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline JRo

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2009, 12:19:21 PM »
Usually when I make pizza I go with the Camaldoli starter and the usual dough calculator route.  It's a several day process getting the starter re-activated, making dough to go in the fridge for a couple days, etc.  Last night was pizza night, and all week I hadn't got around to making dough, and about a month ago I dropped and killed my starter.

So what to do?  Searching for a one-day dough recipe I came across JerryMac's original volume measurement thread and decided to give that a try.  After wading through the endless sea of smileys   :) ;) :D  ;D >:( :(   I had a wet, sticky dough that smelled pretty good for a one-dayer.

They cooked up great (sorry no pics), and were very tasty.  I cooked them at about 550F instead of the usual 700F.  It wasn't "quite" as good as the usual method, I prefer it a touch crisper/chewier, and the starter/longer ferment definitely adds some additional taste, but these were excellent and MUCH less work than normal.

Hat's off Jerry.  An excellent pie without it having to be a weeklong endeavor.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2009, 12:45:02 PM »
So what would this single ball be at 15". Sorry to be a p.i.a. today, but the good news is I only cook these 3 pizzas!

Flour (100%):181.84 g  |  6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs
Water (68%):123.65 g  |  4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs
IDY (1.3575%):2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%):2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
Honey (4.71332%):8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
Total (175.68845%):319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401

Jim,

This one is simple enough that I would like you to take the first stab at the dough formulation you requested. However, I will give you enough guidance to do it. This is what you should do, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html:

1. Select the Thickness Factor option and enter a thickness factor of 0.096738.
2. Enter the number of dough balls you want to make and the shape of the pizzas.
3. Enter the desired pizza size (diameter).
4. Enter the baker's percents for the ingredients (other than for the flour) that you listed in Reply 78
5. Enter a bowl residue compensation of 2.6% (this should work pretty well for a high-hydration dough using your new stand mixer)

Let me know what you get and I will review your numbers.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2009, 12:48:13 PM »
Hat's off Jerry.  An excellent pie without it having to be a weeklong endeavor.

JRo,

I suspect that JerryMac might see your expression of gratitude in this thread, but to be sure you might also want to repeat it at the original JerryMac thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.0.html.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2009, 12:54:33 PM »
Peter,

Ok all entered. I am waiting to see what to do next though as I see no "calculate", ''tabulate'', or "formulate" button. If I hit enter nothing happens, same as copy. So now what? So far I got this.

Flour (100%):    NaN g  |  NaN oz | NaN lbs
Water (68%):    NaN g  |  NaN oz | NaN lbs
IDY (1.3575%%):    NaN g | NaN oz | NaN lbs | NaN tsp | NaN tbsp
Salt (1.61763%):    NaN g | NaN oz | NaN lbs | NaN tsp | NaN tbsp
Honey (4.71332%):    NaN g | NaN oz | NaN lbs | NaN tsp | NaN tbsp
Total (NaN%):   NaN g | NaN oz | NaN lbs | TF = 0.0992532
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:18:03 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2009, 01:31:35 PM »
Jim,

You made an entry error somewhere. For example, if you leave a box completely blank or if you use a comma by mistake instead of a decimal point, you will get the output you noted. I suggest that you double check all of your entries for correctness.

Peter


Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2009, 01:33:50 PM »
Right you were! I had a % symbol in.

Ok for a 15" I get...

Flour (100%):    283.03 g  |  9.98 oz | 0.62 lbs
Water (68%):    192.46 g  |  6.79 oz | 0.42 lbs
IDY (1.3575%):    3.84 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.28 tsp | 0.43 tbsp
Salt (1.61763%):    4.58 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Honey (4.71332%):    13.34 g | 0.47 oz | 0.03 lbs | 1.91 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Total (175.68845%):   497.24 g | 17.54 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = 0.0992532

ps JRo, right on. Best 8 hour pie I've found.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:36:15 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2009, 01:49:51 PM »
Jim,

You got it right.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2009, 01:51:27 PM »
Thanks Peter, you da man!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline torontonian

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2009, 05:48:18 PM »
Peter,

I've started making this dough as per your original post in this thread.

However, after making the poolish, I figured I would make this dough tomorrow.

How would you suggest I modify it to add an overnight in the fridge?

The poolish is almost done its original 5 hours preferment. My thought was to mix in the remaining ingredients and just cover and chill the dough until tomorrow.

Or would you (or anyone) suggest a better way? For e.g. just follow the recipe as is, and refrigerate the dough after the 3 hours on the counter...

Thanks!

-- Josh

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2009, 06:13:15 PM »
Josh,

Under the circumstances, and since all of the yeast is already in the poolish, I think I would finish off the dough and put it directly into the refrigerator. That should slow down the fermentation and hopefully produce an acceptable finished crust. Tomorrow, about 4 hours before you plan to use the dough to make a pizza, I would remove the dough from the refrigerator and let it temper (warm up) at room temperature. The extra hour of temper time should be sufficient to get the dough to a warm enough temperature to use to make the pizza.

Whatever you do, please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Offline torontonian

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2009, 06:19:42 PM »
Thanks Peter. I will do that.

I will also point out that the poolish does not contain all of the IDY. The recipe (as I read it) asks to mix all of the flour and IDY, and then weigh out and equal amount of flour/IDY to the water to make the poolish. I have a little flour (premixed with IDY) sitting in a bowl ready to add after the preferment.

Again, at least how I read it.

-- Joah

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2009, 06:24:29 PM »
Josh,

You are correct on the IDY. I recently created a poolish-based dough formulation for another member in another thread in which I divided the IDY into two parts instead of doing it the way I originally did it, and you are doing it. I would still proceed as I suggested and finished off the dough.

Peter

Offline JerryMac

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2009, 09:04:10 PM »
Wow  :-D We're from Diferent Planets  :-D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry


Offline JerryMac

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2009, 10:09:14 PM »
Pete,

Thanks for keepin it alive  :D :D

Even though we're from Different Worlds, I Love what you do  :-D :-D :-D :-D

Your Respecfull Friend  :chef:
Jerry

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2009, 08:09:46 AM »
Jerry,

Thanks. The feeling is mutual.

Between the two of us, plus others who occasionally jump on board, we pretty much have all bases covered--you with your original recipe in volume measurements and me with my baker's percent versions :chef:.

Maybe you haven't seen it, but I recently used your basic poolish method to convert another member's dough formulation to an eight-hour poolish format, at Reply 184 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg82892.html#msg82892. You can see the finished pizza at Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg83503.html#msg83503. Your technique has become a virus  :-D.

Peter

Offline torontonian

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2009, 01:44:40 PM »
Peter or Jerry,

I've just taken the dough out of the fridge, and boy did this dough rise overnight.

Per Peter's suggestion, I'm going to let it sit out now for 4 hours until I top and bake.

Would you still recommend I do the punch-down step about halfway through the wait?

Thx,
Josh

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2009, 02:51:48 PM »
Peter or Jerry,

Would you still recommend I do the punch-down step about halfway through the wait?

Josh,

When I made my version of JerryMac's dough, I did not see any instructions on whether the dough was supposed to be punched down. The dough was pillowy and looked like it could take a punch down and rise again, so I punched it down. However, as you will see from Replies 124 and 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.msg74336.html#msg74336, JerryMac does not punch down the dough.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #96 on: November 18, 2009, 03:43:23 PM »
Well if Jerry thought about different worlds before, this should qualify as a whole different universe. Inspired by Terry posting this link recently http://www.artisanbreadbaking.com/breads/poolish/poolish.htm I tried option 3, overnight. I started with just flour and water for 40 mins, true autolyse. Then I added the yeast and let it sit out for about 45 mins, then covered and in fridge overnight. It didn't have the bursting bubbles you get with the stand out for 5 hrs, but it certainly had expanded. I left it out for an hour, more bubbles, and proceeded with standard formula. Very different, dare I say an improvement? It was the first mac pie that had an actual rim crunch, usually more chewy. The bottom got a good char, with a nice firmness and thinness.
I'm liking this overnight pre-ferm thing, but I wonder if 45 mins is really long enough before slowing/stopping the process by chilling it. The flavor was really nice though, I see the point based on that alone. Here's a couple pics, I'm also entering a different shot  in this months contest.

Peace all, and happy Thanksgiving.  :D
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #97 on: November 18, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »
Jim,

Which specific dough formulation did you use and can you tell us the composition of the poolish and the additional ingredients used in the final mix?

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #98 on: November 18, 2009, 05:29:36 PM »
Peter,

The formula was  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg83233.html#msg83233 as seen above, 15". The next part of your question is actually a story in and of itself. I had the old 12" formula sheet out, forgetting about the 15" factor. So it started with 123g's water and flour for autolyse. Then I added .50tsp IDY, all as if making the 12". After 45 minutes I remembered I want to make the 15", so I added the other 69gs of water and flour, and another .25tsp yeast. Then it went into the fridge after maybe 5 more minutes.

So total was 192g flour and water, and .75tsp IDY, just not all at once. Today I added the remaining 90gs of flour, just over 1/2 tsp yeast to come close to .53tsp, and the rest as according to said formula.

Your thoughts?

By the way on wetter doughs like this I'm loving the new mixer, much easier, plus the grinder and shredder/slicer are a blast! Note my new crumbled cooked sausage and finely sliced onion and peppers.  :)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 05:36:36 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza Does JerryMac's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #99 on: November 18, 2009, 05:48:18 PM »
Jim,

Good job, including adapting the dough formulation to accommodate a combination of room-temperature and cold fermentation of the poolish. I especially wondered about the honey in light of your comment about getting more crunch on the rim. Honey is a highly hygroscopic material--more so than sugar--so it does become difficult to get a crispy and crunchy rim because the honey keeps more moisture in the dough.

Will we have to keep coming up with new ideas for you to try out to be sure that you stick around the forum :-D?

Peter


 

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