Author Topic: Percentages ?????? Newbie  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline pizzagrande

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Percentages ?????? Newbie
« on: April 12, 2008, 01:32:59 PM »
 ??? Hi I am a newbie and new at pizza making I have seen where a guy says he used
100% Flour
60% water
1% IDY
2% salt
2% oil

How does this calculate to ounces or cups. Forgive the dumb question but it's confusing to me. Hope someone can clear it up.
 ??? ???


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 02:16:05 PM »
pizzagrande,

If what you posted as baker's percents is all that was given, then you are correct. What would be needed to make sense of the set of baker's percents is a total dough weight, or a thickness factor and pizza size (from which an approximate dough weight could be calculated), or the actual amount of one of the ingredients. Even then, because the baker's percent system is a system of weights, the answer would be stated in weights, not volumes. Other methods would have to be applied to convert weights to volumes.

To give you a simple example, assume that the poster had indicated that the total dough weight was 21 ounces. To determine the quantities of flour and the rest of the ingredients needed to produce that amount of dough, the first thing you would do is add up all of the percentages. In the above example, doing that comes to 165% (i.e., 100 + 60 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 165%). The next thing you would do is divide 165 by 100. That gives us 1.65. To detemine the amount of flour, the dough weight mentioned above, 21 oz., is divided by 1.65. That gives us 12.73 oz. of flour. The amounts of the rest of the ingredients are determined by multiplying the weight of flour, 12.73 oz., by the respective baker's percents for those ingredients. So, for the water, multiplying 12.73 oz. by 60%, the amount of water comes to 7.64 oz. Continuing this process, the amount of IDY comes to 0.13 oz. (12.73 x 1% = 0.13), the amount of salt comes to 0.25 oz. (12.73 x 2% = 0.25), and the amount of oil comes to 0.25 oz. (12.73 x 2% = 0.25).

I did the above math in a brute force manner to show you how it works. However, in practice, I would use the Lehmann dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html. I would select the “Dough Weight” option, enter the dough weight (21 oz.), the number of dough balls desired (in our example, it is 1), and the above set of baker’s percents. Doing this, we get the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
IDY (1%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (2%):
Total (165%):
360.82 g  |  12.73 oz | 0.8 lbs
216.49 g  |  7.64 oz | 0.48 lbs
3.61 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.2 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
7.22 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.29 tsp | 0.43 tbsp
7.22 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.6 tsp | 0.53 tbsp
595.35 g | 21 oz | 1.31 lbs | TF = N/A

You will note from the above that all of the ingredients are given in volumes with the exception of the flour and water. That is because there is no single standard way of measuring out flour and water by volumes. For flour alone, I can think of at least five or six ways of measuring it out by volume. For flour and water, you would need a scale.

It is also possible to come up with pretty much the same answers if one knows the amount of any one ingredient (by weight). If a thickness factor and pizza size are known, it will be possible to come up with an approximate weight and use that weight in the dough calculating tool to get the approximate quantities of the different ingredients.

Peter

Offline pizzagrande

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 03:21:14 PM »
Thank you Peter I'll give it a shot. :pizza:

Offline elsegundo

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 04:34:35 PM »
Not quite.  A pint is a pound,  8 ounces water by weight is 8 ounces, a cup, by volume.

Home measurement of water can be done with a Pyrex container with ounce measurements. I've seen reference to a pint is a pound the earth round is not correct. Pretty much is. Scientists can argue that, but the difference is negligible. IMHO.




Online Pete-zza

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 06:05:43 PM »
elsegundo,

If you look at "water" in the pull-down menu in forum member November's Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, you will see that one cup of water, by volume, weighs 8.3454 oz. It is quite common, however, for people to use one cup of water by volume weighs 8 ounces.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 08:46:22 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 07:25:09 PM »
The only way to make sure that your Pyrex cup measurement is really 8 oz is to weigh it at the same time... not all standard 1 cup by volume measuring cups are correct.  If you have verified it and use the same cup every time, you eliminate that problem in YOUR kitchen.  It's also necessary to remember that when you are measuring water by volume, you must look at the bottom of the meniscus (the curved surface of the liquid) at eye level. 

I think the reason elsegundo has found references to the "pint is a pound" being incorrect is that it is the rule for water only...  other heavier liquids don't follow the rule as precisely.  And yes, water does weigh more than 8 oz per volume cup.  I wonder how much the hydration is thrown off when you don't take into account the extra .3454 oz per cup?  I'm sure someone can do the math faster than I can.

Sometimes, it got to be very interesting in my deli when a customer would order "a pint" or "a quart" of a salad instead of a pound or two pounds.  The crew just didn't know what to do!  That's when I invoked the "pint is a pound the world around" rule...  use a 16 oz container for "a pint" of salad... and a 32 oz for "a quart" even though they don't weigh 16 and 32 oz. 

~sd
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Offline November

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 12:23:24 AM »
I wonder how much the hydration is thrown off when you don't take into account the extra .3454 oz per cup?

It would depend on which way the hydration is being thrown off.  If someone is converting a volumetric formula to a formula by weight, the hydration would be lower rather than higher.  For example, 1.5 (U.S.) cups of water weighs 354.8822 g, but under the aforementioned false assumption someone will think it should weigh 340.19428 g (12 oz).  If the hydration was set at 62%, it will now be 59.434%.  That's a very noticeable drop in hydration.  In the other direction, 62% hydration would become 64.677% hydration.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 01:21:18 PM »
sourdough girl,

This is sort of a chicken and egg situation. In order to determine if a measuring cup accurately measures a volume, such as water, you need a scale to do that. But if you have a scale, there is little need to know for practical purposes whether the measuring cup measures accurately. You just weigh the water. And you can use any vessel so long as it has been tared out.

In my case, I have established that my one-cup Pyrex glass measuring cup hold about 8.35 ounces of water. To do this, I tared out the measuring cup on my scale and added 8.35 ounces of water. Once the water settled, I saw that the bottom of the meniscus was at the one-cup marking. I viewed the meniscus at eye level on a level surface. If I hurry the process when filling the measuring cup to the one-cup marking level, and lift the cup to eye level to view the meniscus, I have found that the water weighs around 8.1-8.2 ounces. I will sometimes use that number when converting recipes recited in volumes to weights because that is how most people are likely to do it. As often, I will use November's conversion tool at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, especially if I will be doing flour conversions at the same time. I might add in that regard that conversions of flours in recipes from volumes to weights are even more problematic than water conversions from volumes to weights. At least that has been my experience. I recently did a conversion of a member's recipe recited in volumes and later discovered that my hydration calculation was off by about 10% because of the way the flour was measured out by the member. That is a huge difference and threw off most of my data.

My best advice when members without scales want to try out a formulation in which the flour and water are recited in weights is to use November's mass-volume conversion tool (referenced above) and use the eye-level reading method for water and the "stir-lift-level" method for measuring out the flour. If a particular flour is not listed in the tool, I would use the closest brand. I recently did a weight to volume conversion for flour for one of my own dough formulations and the numbers from November's tool were spot on.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 07:51:08 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Percentages ?????? Newbie
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 04:25:36 PM »
Peter,
I chuckled at myself after I hit "post" and re-read what I had written.  I guess in my defense, I would have to say that my basic idea was for people who have scales but want to continue using volume measurements   ;D   :o   ???   ::)  or who normally use baker's percents and come across a volume measurement recipe they want to try without expending the time or effort to convert it to percents.

And, the point that I really wanted to make but didn't do so very well is that measuring cups/spoons are not created equal, meaning they are not all accurate.  Just because there is a line printed on glass saying "1 cup" does not make it so.  I have an "off brand" glass 2 cup measure that is a little more than two T over a cup at the "1 cup" mark, so I use it for other applications than measuring.  I always wondered why, sometimes, my recipes came out messed up (too much liquid) and when I tested that cup, it was an "AHA!!" moment.

~sd
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