Author Topic: Big Dave's Old Faithful  (Read 22312 times)

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Offline dinks

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2005, 11:14:04 AM »
JAG:
  Good Morning. I am happy to meet you today. I hope you do not mind me asking you this question.  Unless there was a typo, I am unable to figure out how we can get a  dough ball with 80 degree internal temperature using 91 degree water. We must figure in machine friction of 25% using The hobart mixer. (That is what it is rated at & to be used as a constant) We can safely assume slightly less using the home mixer variety & speed of 2 1/4 on the dial. I get 78 to 83 degrees using water from 60 to 65 degrees using instant yeast.
  JAG, I would like to mention that  the 10 minutes of mixing time you mentioned that Mr. Lehman thought was just right, that figure was figured out by world class french bakers before Mr. Lehman was born. I have been using this time element I learned from them as a student. I must mention however , that there are 2 exceptions to the rule where 8 minutes will suffice.
  JAG, I enjoyed being with you this morning & I look forfard to reading more of your postings soon. Good Luck & have a nice day my friend.
    ~DINKS.


Offline JAG

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2005, 11:46:30 AM »
Peter,

There wasn't much talk on dough sizes, I think simply for the fact that my med. crust may be somebody elses thick crust, and also all they had for a scale was a very bouncy spring loaded scale and accuracy wasn't of importance at the time.

I use the 3.14 x r x r x TF as a starting point for individual dough weights. For my 14" I should use around 16.3 oz. but my finished dough weight out of the mixer was enough for two pies at about 16.75 oz. each. (I think I may have some issues with my scale, it is digital but old and beat up.)  This dough weight with this recipe is easily strechable to 16", but peel and stone constraints limit me to a 14".

For my percentages I use
 
Flour 20.5 oz
water 12.3 oz
sugar .6 oz
salt .4 oz
IDY .2 oz
oil .6 oz

This produces just enough for two 14" pies that I would call medium crust, and comparable to many of the most recent pie pix I have seen posted.

John

Offline JAG

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2005, 12:15:37 PM »
DINKS,

I am pleased as well to meet you, and let me say that I am very impressed  with your knowledge in the area of pizza and dough.

My water temp. may be off due to the fact that room temp is assumed to be 72deg F. I keep our house more near 67deg and the flour is kept in a very cool pantry. For my mixing I use A KitchenAid on low and that I thought I had read  somewhere that the heat of friction is around 10%. I very well could be wrong though.

With so many variables from maker to maker introduced into dough temps. isn't it hard to standardize the process parameters?

I will try your H2O temps this weekend to see what my internal dough temp is.

Thanks for the info DINKS, as I am a novice, any info and questions to get me thinking regarding my processing are always  welcome.

John


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2005, 12:32:33 PM »
JAG,

Thanks for the information.

Judging from the numbers you personally used, I came up with a thickness factor of around 0.11, which is basically the thickness factor for the dough ball/pizza sizes recommended by Big Dave in the past for his Old Faithful recipes. As time permits, I will come up with some recipes like those previously posted but using the "New Faithful" recipe.

I'd also like to take a stab at answering Dinks question. Assuming that 1) the desired finished dough temperature was 80 degrees F, 2) the water temperature used was 91 degrees F, 3) the frictional temperatue of the Hobart mixer was 25 degrees F, and 4) that the room temperature and flour temperature were both the same (which is most often the case when the flour is brought to the work location), then if one solves for T in

                                                91 = (3 x 80) - (T + T + 25),

we get T = 62 degrees F. If my math is correct, then the numbers quoted by JAG would have been correct for a room temperature (and flour temperature) of 62 degrees F.  BTW, when I temperature adjust the water I use at home, the frictional temperature number I use for my KitchenAid unit is quite a bit less than 25 degrees F for the amount of dough I usually make and the speed at which kneading takes place. The trick is to pick a frictional temperature number (I start with 10 degrees F with my mixer and dough volume) and adjust that figure with experience by comparing the actual finished dough temperatures with the calculated finished dough temperatures. Then the water temperature calculations will be more accurate in the future.

Peter


Offline Nathan

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2005, 03:48:25 PM »
I ended up making the pizza I didn't think was gonna turn out last night.  It actually turned out pretty good.  I didn't take any pics of it though. 

As for water temp, I have to use 75 degree water in my 6 quart kitchen aid to get finished dough temp of 80 degrees.  I just checked my flour and it's 69 degrees. It's usually about 75 degrees in my kitchen.  I tried 70 degree water once and I stopped the mixer once near the end of kneading and the temp was 79 degrees, then when I checked it again at the end (like 2 minutes later) I got a reading of 78.  Since I switched to 75 degree water I've been getting right above 80 finished temp.
"Pizza with pineapples?  That's a cake."

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2005, 04:38:32 PM »
I have set forth below recipes for 10" (9 oz. dough ball weight), 12" (12 oz.), 14" (18 oz.) and 16" (22 oz.) versions of what I will refer to as the "New Faithful" recipe. This is the recipe that was used by Big Dave Ostrander and Tom Lehmann to make dough for demonstration purposes at the NAPICS event which fellow member JAG recently attended. New Faithful differs from the Big Dave "Old Faithful" recipes in that it calls for a considerably higher hydration level (60%, compared with around 51-52%), a lot more yeast, more salt, more sugar, and more oil. It's quite possible that all of the ingredients were boosted to be sure that the dough would perform without a hitch at NAPICS. Even if that is true, it should make a good dough to try out in a home setting, and I welcome any feedback from those who decide to try out the recipes posted below. Of course, as previously noted, adjustments to knead times and bake times will most likely be needed to practice the recipes in a home setting using standard home equipment.

One should especially take note that this dough will result in a sweeter crust than the Old Faithful crust, but it should have good hydration, extensibility and a reasonably soft crumb. For purposes of the recipes posted here, I used a thickness factor of 0.11, which is consistent with Big Dave's Old Faithful recipes and with what JAG recently used, apparently with good results.  (A thickness factor of 0.11 corresponds to a medium-thickness crust).

10" (9 oz. dough ball)

High-gluten flour (12-13% protein, 100%), 5.35 oz. (about 1 c plus 3 T.)
Water (60%), 3.20 oz. (a bit more than 3/8 c.)
Salt (2%), 0.107 oz. (a bit over 1/2 t.)
Sugar (3%), 0.16 oz. (1 1/8 t.)
Yeast (IDY, 1%), 0.053 oz. (1/2 t.)
Oil (3%), 0.16 oz. (a bit less than 1 t.)

12" (12 oz. dough ball)

High-gluten flour (12-13% protein, 100%), 7.10 oz. (about 1 1/2 c. plus 1 T.)
Water (60%), 4.25 oz. ( about 1/2 c.)
Salt (2%), 0.142 oz. (about 3/8 t.)
Sugar (3%), 0.213 oz. (1 1/2 t.)
Yeast (IDY, 1%), 0.071 oz. (a bit over 5/8 t.)
Oil (3%), 0.213 oz. (a bit more than 1 1/4 t.)

14" (18 oz. dough ball)

High-gluten flour (12-13% protein, 100%), 10.65 oz. (about 2 1/4 c. plus 3 T.)
Water (60%), 6.40 oz. (between 3/4 and 7/8 c.)
Salt (2%), 0.213 oz. (a bit more than 1 t.)
Sugar (3%), 0.32 oz. (2 1/4 t.)
Yeast (IDY, 1%), 0.107 oz. (1 t.)
Oil (3%), 0.32 oz. (a bit under 2 t.)

16" (22 oz. dough ball)

High-gluten flour (12-13% protein, 100%), 13.00 oz. (2 3/4 c. plus 2 T.)
Water (60%), 7.80 oz. (1 c.)
Salt (2%), 0.26 oz. (1 1/3 t.)
Sugar (3%), 0.39 oz. (2 3/4 t.)
Yeast (IDY, 1%), 0.13 oz. (a bit less than 1 1/4 t.)
Oil (3%), 0.39 oz. (2 3/8 t.)

Peter


Offline BradLovesPizza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2005, 03:36:12 PM »
Just made up a batch of "New Faithful" in the bread machine and put it in the fridge. Weighed and placed all the ingredients in the bread machine. My bread machine does 3 minutes of pulse kneeding (on for a second, off for 2 seconds, on a second, etc.) at the start, then switches to full kneed. Left it in for a total of 10 minutes.

Used KASL flour, SAF IDY yeast, Filippo Berio olive oil, Kirkland (Costco) spring water instead of the tap, baker's sugar. All ingredients at room temperature (68 degrees here).

Finished dough ball is 21.8 ounces. Fairly tacky. No idea on finsihed temperature. Bread machine doesn't turn on it's heating element at this stage - so only heat would have been from friction.

I'll let you know the results. I'm out of 6-in-1 tomotoes, so I'm going to have to go with some supermarket brand of sauce unfortunately.

Brad


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2005, 05:45:37 PM »
Brad,

I think you may have come reasonably close to the finished dough temperature of around 80-85 degrees F that is considered optimum for fermentation purposes. The accurate way to determine the finished dough temperature is to use an instant read thermometer. If you overshot the 80-85 degree mark by more than a few degrees, you will get a fairly good idea if the dough rises fairly quickly in the refrigerator within the first few hours.

From my experience, a bread machine--at least my model--puts out a greater amount of total heat than either a stand mixer or food processor, including the heat generated by the rotational speed of the dough blades during the knead cycle of the bread machine, and especially if the knead time is long. I believe in my case the frictional temperature was around 40 degrees F. If your machine is close to that, the water temperature you would need to achieve a finished dough temperature of 80 degrees F would be equal to (3 x 80) - (68 + 68 + 40) = 64 degrees F. If your Costco water was also at 68 degrees F, you may not be all that far off. I'll be very interested in your observations and results.

Peter

Offline BradLovesPizza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2005, 09:27:18 PM »
I'm happy to say that the crust turned out very well. Ended up being in the fridge for 50 hours before preparing it. Went right from the fridge to the countertop to shape - then placed it on a screen. Turned on the oven to 550. Once it reached temerature, I switched it to broil for about 5 minutes to raise the temp even more. Oven thermometer read close to 600. Set dial to 550, put pizza screen on middle rack.

I can say that my experience here is that there is no need (at least using my cheap GE oven) to preheat it for an hour. I was ready to make pizza in 15 minutes. Possibly if a stone was in there, then the stone could use a longer preheat.

Other things I tried on this pizza. Half pepperoni, half salami as someone suggested. I can say, I'm not a fan of the salami (at least this salami) - which was just an odd brand on sale at Kroger. I also used supermaket brand (Meijer) mozz cheese slices. Not impressed. I really would like to get some stringy cheese. This was more blob-like. Anyone know if grande mozz or grande mozz/prov gives a stringy effect at all?

Have some pics I can upload eventually, but too tired at the moment. I'm flying to Phoenix in the morning. Anyone know any   must-try Pizza restaurants out there?

Brad

Offline BradLovesPizza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2005, 09:47:22 PM »
Pete,

Forgot to say thank you for posting the converted measurements so that I could make this. Thanks also to the others one here who have given me suggestions in the past. It's exciting to see each pizza get a bit better!

Brad


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2005, 10:08:47 PM »
Brad,

I'm glad things worked out for you with the "New Faithful" dough recipe.

As for "must try" pizza places in the Phoenix area, I would have to say that #1 on the list has to be Pizzeria Bianco. For a few details, see http://www.digitalcity.com/phoenix/entertainment/venue.adp?vid=63389.

Have a good trip. If you make it to Pizzeria Bianco, it would be nice to get your feedback on the restaurant board.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2005, 02:13:00 PM »
Yesterday, a poster at the PMQ site requested help in downsizing Big Dave's "Old Faithful" recipe to get to a dough ball weight sufficient for the poster to make at home (using a home KitchenAid mixer) to produce a 14-inch pizza. Since I had already done the math for the benefit of our members and guests at this forum, I posted the recipe (downsized) I had come up with using what I believed to be the "latest" version of the Old Faithful recipe--specifically, the version that Big Dave had emailed to me not too long ago. I also mentioned to the poster that there appeared to be several versions of the Old Faithful recipe, and I later provided a scaled-down version of the dough that was used at a recent NAPICS event and also referred to as an "Old Faithful" recipe (and which I had renamed "New Faithful").

Today, a PMQ employee (Tom Boyles) posted a message that the official "Old Faithful" recipe is now posted at the PMQ Recipe Bank. Based on the recipe posted at the Recipe Bank, those wishing to practice downsized versions of that recipe should look at Replies #10 and 13 of this thread. This doesn't mean that one shouldn't try the New Faithful recipe. It may have well been crafted especially for the NAPICS event to get the best possible dough to use to teach attendees how to make a good dough, but the New Faithful recipe seems to have utility in its own right in a home setting, as noted recently by fellow member Brad who tested a scaled down version of the recipe with good results.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 02:17:12 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2005, 02:57:32 PM »
As a followup to my last post, the poster (Mike) who had originally requested help in downsizing the Old Faithful recipe for a 14-inch size pizza decided to try the NAPICS version of the Old Faithful recipe--the one I had come to call "New Faithful". Before he made pizzas (two of them) using that recipe, he asked for assistance on the kneading aspect of the recipe. So, I composed and posted the procedure I would follow to make the dough from that recipe. Today, the poster replied as follows (in quotes):

"Peter,
I did old faithful #2 the NAPICS version. After mixing, balling, and putting it into a freezer bag, I let it go in the frig for 48 hours. I brought the dough out 1 hour 30 minutes to warm as I preheated the pizza stone and oven to 500 deg. Used Semolina flour on the peel and surface to roll out the dough.

For the sauce I used recipe as follows: 28 oz crushed tomatoes, small can tomato paste, 1/4 t garlic powder, 1/4 t onion powder, 3 t oregano, 2 t basil, 1/4 t pepper, 1 t salt, 2 t sugar, 2 t olive oil, 1/4 t fennel seed. I mixed this up and put it in the frig for 2 days before using.

For toppings I cooked 2 lbs ground pork and 1 lb italian sausage plus some fennel seed. After it cooled I use a food processor to crumble it up. I cooked a 14" sausage and mushroom pizza for 8 minutes on the pizza stone.

The pizza was wonderful!!! Blows Pizza Hut, and the indy pizza place we have here out of the water! The only downfall was the cheap super market mozz cheese I had to use. Even with the cheap cheese it was still a way better pizza. I don't think I would change a thing, it was the best pizza I ever had...

Thanks again for all your help."

For those who may be interested in the dough processing procedure I gave to Mike, I have cut and pasted it below. The recipes for which this procedure would apply are set forth at Reply #25 at this thread.

"The way I do it is to first combine the yeast (IDY) with the flour and set aside. Then, in the bowl of the KitchenAid mixer I combine the salt and sugar with the water, which I temperature adjust to achieve a finished dough temperature of 80 degrees F, and stir or whisk until the salt and sugar are dissolved. I then gradually add the yeast/flour mixture to the water at stir or 1 speed and mix until the flour has pretty much been taken up by the water and a rough dough ball starts to form between the dough hook and the sides of the bowl. It may be necessary at this point to use a spatula to direct the flour in the path of the dough hook so that it is fully taken up by the water, and, occasionally, to reorient the dough ball relative to the dough hook so that it doesn't ride the dough hook and get insufficient kneading. Once the dough ball has come together, I add the oil and mix on speed 1 or 2 for about a couple of minutes, or until the oil has been incorporated into the dough. I finish the machine kneading at speed 2/3 for about 6-8 minutes, or until the dough is smooth, shiny and elastic, without any tears on the outer surface, and is neither wet nor dry but rather tacky. If necessary, I make adjustments to the flour and water, a little at a time (and very sparingly with the flour), and continue kneading until the desired condition of the dough is achieved. I usually knead the dough by hand for about another 30 seconds or so to form the dough into a nice round ball. The finished dough ball is then lightly oiled and put into a container (covered), and then placed into the refrigerator for at least 24 hours, and up to 48-72 hours. (In your case, you will have to divide the larger ball into two smaller balls, and proceed as discussed.)"

Peter



« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 07:03:37 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2006, 09:23:41 AM »
With one of our new members, Tim Wurtz, experimenting with a version of the Big Dave Ostrander “Old Faithful” dough formulation for his high altitude Idaho pizzeria location, I decided over the weekend to try out the most recent “Old Faithful” dough formulation posted on this thread—the one I have chosen to call “New Faithful”. This is the version that member JAG provided some time ago after having discovered it at a NAPICS event. Both he and a few other members previously tried the formulation and spoke well of it.

This is the formulation I elected to use, to make a 16-inch pizza:

100%, High-gluten flour (KASL), 13.10 oz. (371.01 g.), 3 c. plus 2 T. (scoop, spoon and level method)
60%, Water (70 degrees F), 7.85 oz. (222.61 g.), a bit less than 1 c.
2%, Salt, 0.26 oz. (7.42 g.), 1 1/3 t.
3%, Sugar, 0.39 oz. (11.13 g.), a bit more than 2 3/4 t.
1%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.13 oz. (3.71 g.), a bit less than 1 1/4 t.
3%, Oil, 0.39 oz. (11.13 g.), 2 3/8 t.
Total dough weight = 22.12 oz. (627.01 g.)
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.11 (medium thickness)
Note: all measurements U.S./metric standard

The process for making the dough was as follows: 1) combine the IDY with the flour, and set aside; 2) put the water into the bowl of a stand mixer (e.g., KitchenAid), together with the salt and sugar, and stir to completely dissolve, about 30 seconds; 3) gradually add the flour mixture, about a tablespoon or two at a time, and mix at Stir speed, using a spatula to help incorporate the flour into the water and to move the dough mixture into the path of the dough hook; 4) when the flour has pretty much been taking up by the water and a rough dough ball forms, add the oil and continue to knead at Stir or 1 speed for about another minute or so to fully incorporate the oil; 5) continue to knead the dough at speed 2 for about 5-6 minutes, or until the dough clears the side of the bowl and forms a smooth, yet somewhat tacky ball without tears on the outer surface; 6) hand knead the finished dough for about 30 seconds, shape into a ball or disk, lightly oil, and place within a container (in my case, a large metal cookie tin with a tight-fitting lid); 7) immediately place in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours and up to 72 hours.

In my case, I removed the dough from the refrigerator and its container after about 48 hours, during which time the dough had more than doubled in volume, placed the dough on a lightly floured work surface, lightly dusted the dough with a small amount of bench flour, and covered the dough with a sheet of plastic wrap. The dough remained at room temperature for about 1 1/2 hours before it was shaped into a skin. The dough handled very well, with a nice balance between extensibility and elasticity. I had decided to use only a pizza screen (i.e., no pizza stone), so the skin (16”) was placed on the screen (16”) before dressing. I might add that there was enough dough that I could have easily shaped it into an 18" skin (and used an 18" screen) to get a thinner crust.

To dress the pizza, I used a Stanislaus Alta Cucina sauce (a combination of an uncooked pureed sauce and a cooked reduction of the can juices), Italian herb seasonings, one ounce of shredded hard Asiago cheese, 7 ounces of cubed Frigo (Saputo) processed mozzarella cheese, Margherita pepperoni slices, sauteed mushrooms, and additional imported (Sicilian) dried oregano and a few sprigs of fresh Italian oregano from my garden.

The pizza was baked on the middle oven rack position of the oven, which I had turned on about 10 minutes before preparing the skin and dressing it, and baked at 475 degrees F for about 8 minutes, or until the rim of the crust had started to turn brown and the cheeses were melting and starting to bubble. I then moved the pizza off of the screen and placed it directly beneath the broiler element, which I turned on during the last minute that the pizza was on the middle oven rack. The pizza was under the broiler for about a minute. The total time that the oven was on, from the time it was turned on and the pizza was removed from it, was less than 25 minutes. IMO, this makes the New Faithful pizza a good choice to make now that the weather is starting to turn warm and interest in baking pizzas in the home oven is beginning to wane.

The photos below show the finished product. The pizza turned out very well. It had a soft, tender crust and crumb, with a breadlike character, and with good oven spring, a hint of sweetness in the crust, and good overall coloration. I believe that the New Faithful dough formulation is a well designed formulation—better than most—and should work quite well in a professional setting for which it was apparently intended. It’s also conceivable that the soft and tender nature of the crust may make it a good candidate for a delco (delivery/carryout) operation because the crust is less likely to turn tough during the transit time between the pizzeria and the consumer’s home. This is a problem that is sometimes experienced with crusts made with high-gluten flour.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 09:34:10 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Tim_Wurtz

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2006, 08:22:01 PM »
Peter,

Awesome job, The whole pizza looks yummy!! :)
Tim Wurtz
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2006, 08:54:48 PM »
Tim,

Thanks. The New Faithful dough is an extremely easy dough to make, even with a basic home stand mixer and oven.

I actually liked the results of the New Faithful formulation better than the earlier Old Faithful dough formulations. Today, I reheated a few leftover slices in my toaster oven and they were very, very good. That leads me to believe that the New Faithful formulation is one that should hold up well in a commercial setting. In a high altitude environment, I would cut back on the yeast substantially and maybe make minor adjustments to hydration but otherwise leave the formulation as is. I think the formulation is worth trying.

As an aside, I might mention that we may not be hearing as much or as often from Big Dave Ostrander, who was a frequent poster at the PMQ.com Think Tank forum where I first found the Old Faithful dough recipes. As of January, both he and Kamron Karington (of Black Book fame) are no longer affiliated with PMQ.com (they are no longer on the "experts" list) but rather are now affiliated with PMQ’s direct competitor Pizza Today. Interestingly, since January I have seen only a couple of posts at the PMQ Think Tank noting their absence, with the most recent one, at the thread starting at http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/29025, having a somewhat negative tone. Along with Tom Lehmann, I learned a lot from Big Dave at the PMQ Think Tank and hope that he will continue to share his knowledge with us from his new perch at Pizza Today.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2006, 11:16:09 AM »
For those who are interested, this link, http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi/noframes/read/29156, provides an official explanation of the move to Pizza Today of Big Dave Ostrander and Kamron Karington. Fortunately--at least for now--many of the early Old Faithful dough formulations can still be found in the PMQ Think Tank archives and on the Recipe Bank. And on this thread, of course.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 11:18:28 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline duckjob

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2006, 03:23:46 AM »
Its been a long long time since I've made anything but Pizza Raquel. It may very well be time to bust out the screen and give this a go. The pizza's look great Pete!

Brian

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2006, 08:38:37 AM »
Thanks, Brian.  I hope that you have good results with it too.

Peter

Offline Flagpull

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2006, 11:21:40 AM »
Pete-

I've got a 12" "New Faithful" in the fridge right now. The final dough consistency was pretty nice, it didn't give the KA any trouble.

I'll be cooking it with 6'n'1 sauce, Polly-O cheese and directly on the stone.

I'll post the results around this time tommorow.


Philip


 

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