Author Topic: WTF happened to my dough!  (Read 2675 times)

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Offline KoolDO

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WTF happened to my dough!
« on: April 28, 2008, 06:39:39 PM »
Today I took my dough balls out of the fridge to proof and found they were enormous and had bubbles growing off the tops of them, looking like they were overfermented.  It had only been around 40 hours since I put them in the fridge.  When I tried to stretch them out it was all deformed and limp, sloppy like and had torn when I tried to do anything.    On a side note this was a huge expensive disaster, I spent mucho cash on my KA organic high gluten and it all went in the trash-I am not a happy camper right now.  This is my first time using the high gluten and I'm totally flabbergasted.  Here is the procedure I followed any tips or advice or insight into WTF happened is greatly appreciated.


Saturday, April 26, 2008

Papa Joe’s NY Elite Dough Recipe
Dough Ingredients:
Flour (100%):    882.64 g | 31.13 oz | 1.95 lbs (King Arthur High Gluten Organic)
Water (64%):    564.89 g | 19.93 oz | 1.25 lbs (Aquafina)
IDY (.17%):    1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp (SAF Perfect Rise Instant Red)
Salt (1.75%):    15.45 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.22 tsp | 1.07 tbsp (Atlantic Sea Salt)
Total (165.92%) 1464.48 g | 51.66 oz | 3.23 lbs | TF = 0.076125
Single Ball:   244.08 g | 8.61 oz | 0.54 lbs
Makes 6 12” pizze

I.   Dough Preparation

Step 1.Autolyse
•   Put 565g of water and 16g of sea salt in the mixer bowl and stir.
•   Combine 1.5g of SAF Red Yeast and 75% of the flour (662g).
•   Mix on the lowest speed for 2 minutes with the paddle attachment.
•   Cover and let rest for 20 minutes.

Step 2.Wet Kneading
•   Mix on lowest speed for 8 minutes using the C-hook attachment
•   After 5 minutes add the remaining 25% of the flour (221g)
•   Increase the mixing speed to level 2 and mix for an additional 5 min
•   Check dough temperature for target range of 75-80°F then stop when reached
•   Let rest for 15 min

Step 3.Dividing into dough balls
•   Remove dough from mixer and hand knead on a lightly floured bench for 2 min.
•   Portion dough balls with metal scrapper into 244g balls.
•   Lightly oil Glad containers with EVOO and place dough balls inside and seal the top air tight.
•   Place containers with dough balls in the refrigerator for 24+ hours for fermentation.


Notes: 
-The finished dough temperature was 78° and was taken with the probe thermometer.  The IR thermometer gun readings were inconsistent.

-The batch made 5 244g dough balls however the 6th dough ball came up short weighing only 224g.  The bowl residue compensation was set at 1.5%, however, I did not see a significant amount of residue left on the hook or the bowl.

-The dough balls were placed in Glad containers which hold 2 dough balls each and placed into the refrigerator which read 33.4°with the IR thermometer gun.(I doubt the accuracy it seems low temperature for a refrigerator)




Offline pcampbell

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 07:06:35 PM »
Could you have over measured the IDY??
Patrick

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 07:44:08 PM »
Joe,

I normally don't make over three pounds of dough at a time in my KA stand mixer, but I don't see that you did anything out of order. Like Patrick, my first thought was that maybe there was an error in the amount of yeast used--much higher than 1.5 g. You didn't indicate what water temperature you used but if the finished dough temperature was in the proper range, that suggests that it was not excessively high. You would need either an excessive amount of yeast and/or an excessively high finished dough temperature to have the dough overferment in about 40 hours, especially at the temperature of your refrigerator compartment where you stored the dough balls. Of course, if your refrigerator malfunctioned and was much, much warmer than when you placed the dough balls in the refrigerator, then that could certainly cause overfermentation. But that is something you would have detected very quickly.

I don't see anything in your dough formulation per se that could cause the overfermentation you mentioned. Is it possible that you forgot the salt? Salt helps develop the gluten structure but it also regulates the fermentation process and affects the role of the protease enzymes. A dough without salt can have a lot of volume expansion initially, and quickly, but the gluten structure, which can be attacked by the protease enzymes, may not retain the gasses of fermentation well, leading to a weak, slack and sticky dough with poor structure and work-up. If you saved or can retrieve some of the dough and bake it, that would tell you whether you forgot the salt. You will taste it.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 08:14:06 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline KoolDO

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 08:56:47 PM »
I suspect what happened is that the scale that I used really s%#ks.  I bought the second worst scale on earth from myweigh.com the Uber Stainless Steel Kitchen Scale which is an upgrade from the worst scale on earth the Salter electronic kitchen scale I bought at Williams and Sonoma.  Just today after I threw out all of my dough, frustrated by failure with the dough I revisited last weeks failure and retried Novembers sauce recipe again.  This time when I was measuring the garlic and onion powders I remeasured them several times and could not get a consistent reading.  What is more disturbing that I didn't realize it the first time is that this scale is not sensitve enough AT ALL and misreads like crazy.  It was measuring more than half of my bottle of onion powder as 3 grams and it was only then that my common sense kicked me in the a$$ that maybe it didn't measure my IDY correctly either!  The scale only measures grams to whole numbers and is not accurate at all.  On top of it all I'm not happy with my Extech IR thermometer either which I paid out the ying yang to get calibrated, which I also could not get an accurate reading on my dough temp, I had to use my probe thermometer I got from Thermoworks.

  Anyway I apoligize for the rant, I 'm very upset right now, theres a lot of time and $ in my trash can right now in addition to some disappointed hungry family members including myself.  So if anyone can send a scale recommendation my way I would really appreciate it very much, preferrably one that can measure to the tenth decimal place at least.

Thanks a lot for the help,
Joe


 

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 09:05:52 PM »
Joe,

You don't really need to weigh the ingredients other than the flour and water. I have a special scale that can weigh small amounts of lightweight ingredients like yeast, salt, sugar, etc., but I found that the volume quantities produced by the various dough calculating tools for those ingredients are just as good. I only use my scale to weigh out the flour and water and use the volume measurements for the rest of the ingredients.

Peter

Offline KoolDO

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 09:32:18 PM »
 
Quote
I have a special scale that can weigh small amounts of lightweight ingredients like yeast, salt, sugar, etc., but I found that the volume quantities produced by the various dough calculating tools for those ingredients are just as good.

Hey Peter,
How would you go about converting small quantities like yeast, garlic powder, salt, etc. from grams to volume quantities.  I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
Thanks,
Joe

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 10:19:44 PM »
Joe,

To give you an example, if you look at the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, you will see a large number of ingredients for that tool. When member Boy Hits Car (Mike) did the programming for the tool, he used conversion data that I collected for those ingredients from various sources. The conversion data was for one teaspoon of each ingredient, and was stated in ounces (e.g., 1 t. of honey = 0.246666 oz.). To convert to grams, the weights in ounces were multiplied by 28.35 (1 oz. = 28.35 g.). The conversion data came from many places, including nutritiondata.com, and from data provided on labels of ingredients for which I could not find data at nutritiondata.com. In the rare case where I could not find useful information anywhere else, I used that special scale I mentioned earlier. In a few cases, where there were several brands of a particular ingredient, I averaged the values for convenience.

As a user of the tool, all of the conversion data is transparent to you. If you enter the baker's percents for the ingredients you plan to use, plus any other data called for by the tool, the quantities of all the ingredients will be specified in both weights and volumes. The only exceptions are for flour, water and cake yeast. If there is a need to convert a particular flour to volume measurements, or to convert the weight of water to a volume measurement, I use member November's Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ as much as possible.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 08:40:17 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline KoolDO

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 11:28:09 PM »
I guess I should have looked where it says .5 tsp for IDY to the right of where it indicates what it is in grams. :-[
Thanks Peter,  I'll let you know how my dough comes out tomorrow, hopefully I'll have some good news to report.  On a side note that KA organic high-gluten smells unbelievable.  It really is very unique and strong smelling, I can't wait for my first successful batch of dough so I can test it out.

Joe

Offline November

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 02:32:37 AM »
So if anyone can send a scale recommendation my way I would really appreciate it very much, preferrably one that can measure to the tenth decimal place at least.


A balance with a resolution extended to the tenth decimal place is pretty hard to come by.  The seventh decimal place is the best I can do for a recommendation.

http://us.mt.com/mt/products/products-applications_laboratory-weighing_umx-mx/UMX2_015201330710252411.jsp

Don't bother with the Automated-S model.  You probably wouldn't want to pay extra for the automated weighing feature.

- red.november
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 02:46:45 AM by November »

Offline KoolDO

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 06:03:11 PM »
Quote
A balance with a resolution extended to the tenth decimal place is pretty hard to come by.  The seventh decimal place is the best I can do for a recommendation.

I meant the decimal place one over to the right of the decimal point.lol  I thought it went tenth, hundreth, thousandth etc.  But it's been a while since I've been in school, and unfortunately at the time I was attending school doing any schoolwork wasn't one of my priorities.

Well, the update is that I got a defective scale.  I realized it today for sure when I was trying to scale my dough balls and everytime I put the same dough ball on the scale it would give a completely different reading sometimes a 20 gram difference.  Anyway, the people at oldwillknotscales were very nice and are allowing to exchange it for a new one.  Also, they are going to calibrate the scale and check for any problems before it gets sent out this time, which they only do upon request.

BTW Peter, that site nutritiondata.com is fantastic.  It has been of extreme helpfullness and convenience to me in so many ways.
Thanks, Joe


Offline pcampbell

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 06:23:13 PM »
Which scale did you get? The 7001 has been very reliable and pretty cheap.
Patrick

Offline KoolDO

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 06:33:48 PM »
Quote
Which scale did you get? The 7001 has been very reliable and pretty cheap.

I got the Uber Deluxe 6000. 
The woman helping me on the phone actually told me it is a common problem.  She said due to their extreme volume that they ship out each day it's impossible to check to make sure each scale is working properly before they go out.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008, 06:36:43 PM »
BTW Peter, that site nutritiondata.com is fantastic.  It has been of extreme helpfullness and convenience to me in so many ways.


Joe,

That is a good site. You can also do a search of the USDA nutrition database at http://199.133.10.140/codesearchwebapp/(b2mniq55ibyrik45brj5cvbn)/codesearch.aspx. Both places were brought to my attention by November.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 07:16:53 PM »
I meant the decimal place one over to the right of the decimal point.lol  I thought it went tenth, hundreth, thousandth etc.

That would be one-tenth of a unit, the one-tenths place, the first decimal place, one decimal place of precision, or one significant digit below a value of one.

Offline November

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Re: WTF happened to my dough!
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 07:24:18 PM »
That is a good site. You can also do a search of the USDA nutrition database


nutritiondata.com contains USDA data, so it's redundant to use both.  I only pointed out the USDA website to show where the raw data comes from.  The USDA website is useful if one were interested in building their own nutrition analysis product (much like nutritiondata.com) and wants to receive the nutrition data in a format for importing into a database.  I think they even offer the data already imported into an Access database as well.

Another site which can serve as a source for nutrition facts is: http://www.calorieking.com/  Their database is quite large and contains food items not in nutritiondata.com, but the data is limited to primarily nutrition facts that are found on the packaging.  At least it's a source for some items you might not have the packaging on hand to look at.

- red.november


 

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