Maximum Hydration NY Dough

[DeBee]

Fellow member Pete-zza posted a simple dough recipe that he was experimenting with using high gluten flour and the highest percentage of water possible...

I jotted the recipe down on a sticky- made the dough the same night and baked it off the following night feeding it to my friends and family...  The stuff was great!  Golden airy crust with slight crunch and proper droop- "poofy" crown.  They ate the crust too! (as opposed to my sourdough disaster which tasted like an english muffin- the groundhogs got most of that one...)

Well, the sticky stuck to something and is lost or thrown away.  I am wondering if Pete-zza has tweaked the recipe any...  It started with 3 5/8 cups of flour and used no sugar???

I got 2 16" pies from the dough ball.  Is that stretching it too thin?

[Pete-zza]

DeBee,

I'm glad your pizzas went over well.  Now, if I can only tell you which recipe you used .

I don't recall using 3 5/8 cups of flours with maximum hydration.  Two of the recipes I used with high hydration were the first recipe posted in the Lehmann thread and a second recipe in Reply #9 in that same thread.  Both postings are at http://www.pizzamaking.com/yabbse/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=576;start=0.  The flour quantity in both of those recipes was about 2 1/2 cups.  The hydration percentage was indeed at the high end of the range--about 65-66%.  And there was no added sugar in either.  If I recall correctly, the main difference between the two recipes was the amount of yeast (IDY) used.  In the first recipe, through error, I used 1 1/2 t. IDY.  I corrected the error in the second recipe, where I used a fraction of a teaspoon of IDY (1/4 t.).  Both pizzas turned out fine, although I personally preferred the one with the higher amount of yeast.  If you revisit the Lehmann thread at the above link, you might recall which recipe you actually used.  

As for the sizes of the pizzas you made (both 16 inches), that's on the thin size of things for a dough ball that weighs around 20 ounces.  In the pizza trade, a typical dough ball size for a 16-inch thin pizza runs from around 20 to 26 ounces.  I have on occasion made a couple of 12-inch pizzas with a dough ball weight in that range, but not two 16 inch pizzas.  But you can't argue with success.  If everyone liked the pizzas, that's what really matters.  A single 16 inch pizza made with a 20 ounce dough ball would most likely have a quite large, soft rim and a thin to medium thickness center.  Two 16 inch pizzas made from the same size dough ball would most likely have a much smaller (and, hence, crunchier) rim and a very thin center.   Do you recall which form your pizzas took?

If neither of the abovementioned recipes was the one you used, let me know.  If there is a particular size or number of pizzas you would like to make, I can calculate the dough ball size you should use and the quantities of ingredients you will need.  I will be out of town for about a week on family business, but I will bring my Lehmann NY style dough formula with me (even though I have it memorized by now) and do the necessary calculations and post the recipe as soon as I am able.  

Peter

[DeBee]

My oven is broken!!!   My oven is broken!!!

The ignitor must have went...  I call the techs in...  Just as I was busting out the flour too...

And the good news is:  I found the sticky

3 5/8 c KASL
1.15-1.25c H2O  (I used 1.25c @ 66 secs in microwave) (Yes, I keep notes- I just "misplace" them from time to time)
1/8t. IDY
1 1/2t sea salt (I used regular salt)
1 t olive oil (I used 1T because I thought it might be a typo)

10 minutes autolyse (something I never heard of until I joined this forum...)  I also ignored dough temp until this forum...

Crust was thin but not cracker-like.  It spun out translucent in the center and the rim was about 1/2" high- something I wouldn't have been able to achieve without superior dough because my dough handling techinques are wanting.  I quickly sauced with Mama Mia sauce and cheesed it with Stella and baked it off for 9 minutes at 475...
I was able to fold the slice without too much droop.  Perfectly light slightly chewy yet crisp.  The extra water helps the dough retain the gas bubbles???  Best results yet.

I'd like to try again when my oven is repaired (Tuesday) with the proper proportions for 2 16" pies and your updated yeast calculations when you have a spare moment...

Thanks

[Pete-zza]

DeBee,

I was able to find the recipe you used.  I had posted it in the context of a discussion on sourdough-based pizzas, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/yabbse/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=528;start=msg4616#msg4616.  The recipe is basically the Lehmann NY style dough recipe, adapted for one pound of KASL flour.  I used this recipe several times before I volunteered to do more experimenting with it on the Lehmann thread.  I found the recipe to work well, and I received the same favorable response from eaters as you did.  

When you go back to the above link to refresh your memory, you will see that the dough ball size produced from the recipe is around 22 ounces.  I used that dough ball size to make two 12-inch pizzas.  That squares with the expression 3.14 x 6 x 6 x 0.10 = 11.3 ounces (roughly half of 22 ounces).

Since I used the above recipe, I have dispensed with the autolyse period.  I'm reluctant to tell you not to keep it in light of the favorable results you achieved with your pizzas.  And it's impressive to bandy the fancy term "autolyse" around your friends and family.  I note also that you appear not to have temperature adjusted the water when you made the two pizzas.  I will leave it up to you to decide whether you want to do that in a future experiment with the recipe.  With me it's become second nature and, for me, at least, seems to produce more consistent results from one pizza to the next.  The one teaspoon of oil is correct, although using 1 T. as you did won't hurt the dough at all.  It will increase the extensibilty (stretch) of the dough and it will provide added softness to the crust.  Tom L.'s NY style dough recipe is a what I call a "low NY" recipe--it's low in yeast, sugar (actually, none), and oil.  The "high" part is mainly in the hydration level, and when you used 1.25 c. water, you were indeed at the upper end of the range (around 65%).

For your purposes, if you decide you want to make a classic 16-inch NY style pizza, you should just follow the recipe as I posted it and you previously followed it.  If you want to make two 16-inch pizzas, then all you need to do is double the ingredients.  This will give you a total dough weight of around 44-45 ounces.  As you might expect, you will have to make adjustments in knead time, etc., if you make the dough in one batch.  Alternatively, you can make the dough in two batches.  In a future experiment, you might even want to try using more yeast, although doing so may produce a softer dough and crust--but it will still taste great.  

Let me know if you need any further help with the recipe.

Peter