Any pizza ideas?

[Squirrelman]

 Hi, I bought these really good looking vine ripe tomatoes the other day and want to make a pizza with them Friday. I was thinking a think and airy Sicilian. only problem is the only pan I have is a glass casserole dish. Would that work?

 And I was wondering If anyone had a good pizza idea to work around the tomatoes. The ingredients I have to work with are:

Vine ripe tomatoes
A can of cento sm tomatoes
Tomato sauce
Bacon
Feta cheese
Mozarella cheese
Cheddar cheese
4 cheese pizza mix
A green pepper
Riccota cheese
Dry seasonings(Oregano,Basil,ect.)

And either K.A. AP flour or K.A. bread flour, water/yeast/sugar/evoo/kosher salt.

 I definitely want to use the tomatoes, and if possible the ricotta to use it up. but otherwise the only idea I had was maybe just a simple tomato/cheese Sicilian...kind of a rustic pizza I guess.

 If anyone knows a good Sicilian dough recipe I could use 1 too. This pizza doesn't have to be Sicilian if it won't work in my casserole dish, just preferred if it would work. Basically looking for the pizza to be about 1-1.5 inches thick when it's done.

 Also am I doing something wrong? whenever I use fresh tomato on a pizza the tomato gets cold before the pizza is cool enough to eat. is there a trick to keep it warm?

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[David]

Vine ripe tomatoes (oven dry)
A can of cento sm tomatoes (Hand Crush )
Bacon (Partly pre cook and chop into large pieces)
Feta cheese ( Crumble generously)
Dry seasonings(Oregano,Basil,ect.)

Little,if no salt needed as the Feta is usually strong and the bacon has enough.This is a great combination of contrasting sweet/salty/sharp flavors.The oven dried toms are intense.This is about as good a simple rustic can get IMO

[zalicious]

In this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.0.html there is a lot of info on doughs for Sicilian pie. abc in reply # 33 talks about a sauce he made using some fresh tomato. Also, in reply # 24 Pete-zza gives a recipe with bakers percentages that you can use with the Lehman dough calculator on the home page. You just need to plug in your own pan size & Thickness Factor. I believe a 1 1/2 thick pizza is around a .15 TF? Pete will know. Hopefully he'll see this to verify or correct. In the recipe section there is a recipe for a Pizza Hut clone that I think is 1 1/2", also. I'm struggling to get a Sicilian pie the way I ( vaguely ) remember from 20 odd years ago. I'm trying my 3rd variation tonight. Good luck to both of us .

[Pete-zza]

I believe a 1 1/2 thick pizza is around a .15 TF? Pete will know. Hopefully he'll see this to verify or correct.

Jeanette,

I have seen a range of around 0.12-0.14 and, in one case (a Big Dave Ostrander recipe), above 0.15. See, for example, Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.msg19678.html#msg19678. I think this is one of those cases where some experimentation may be required.

Peter

[Squirrelman]

 I have a cast iron pan similar to this 1: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8246375
I don't know what I did with the booklet but I assume that it can be heated to 500f +.

A) Does anyone know what temperature cats iron can heat to, without breaking.

B) Would this type of pizza cook good in that cast iron pan? (without preheating the pan though)

C) Would I have to worry about the acidity from the tomatoes? I know you can't cook acidic things in cast iron, but they are on top of the pizza, then again if any spills over it could be a problem I guess. What do you think?
 
 Trying to figure out what pan I can use. My mother said the casserole dishes can only reach like 350...so thats probably out of the question unless you bake Sicilians at 350.

 Oh and about the topping idea, sounds good but how should I dry the tomatoes? 300f? How long should it take? Also I like feta cheese in very small amounts mixed with other cheeses and only have like a tbsp of it left anyway, could I mix the feta with any of those other cheese to make a similar topping? maybe some of the mozzarella or some Parmesan cheese?

[Squirrelman]

 Oh and since oven dried tomatoes are very strong, any recommendations on how much to use? (Preferably a before or after drying weight so I can scale them.)

[Mad_Ernie]

I have a cast iron pan similar to this 1: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8246375
I don't know what I did with the booklet but I assume that it can be heated to 500f +.

A) Does anyone know what temperature cats iron can heat to, without breaking.

B) Would this type of pizza cook good in that cast iron pan? (without preheating the pan though)

C) Would I have to worry about the acidity from the tomatoes? I know you can't cook acidic things in cast iron, but they are on top of the pizza, then again if any spills over it could be a problem I guess. What do you think?
 
 Trying to figure out what pan I can use. My mother said the casserole dishes can only reach like 350...so thats probably out of the question unless you bake Sicilians at 350.

Squirrelman:

You might want to head over to the Chicago-style section and type in the words "pizza cast iron" in the search window.  There have been a few discussions and mentions of people using cast iron skillets for making deep-dish style pizza.

Here is one such thread:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6310.0.html

-ME

[Squirrelman]

Oh and about the topping idea, sounds good but how should I dry the tomatoes? 300f? How long should it take? Also I like feta cheese in very small amounts mixed with other cheeses and only have like a tbsp of it left anyway, could I mix the feta with any of those other cheese to make a similar topping? maybe some of the mozzarella or some Parmesan cheese?

 Anyone know about that? and about drying/scaling the tomatoes? I was thinking maybe mix Parmesan with the feta since its a similar rustic taste imo, I wouldn't mind using up the mozzarella but if I'm not going to use it all then I'd probably be better off saving it for my next pizza.

 I'm actually thinking of maybe making 2 Sicilians now since i might eat over my mothers with company. maybe 1 like this a 1 with the sauce, mozzarella, green pepper, and pepperoni. only problem would be cooking time.

[Squirrelman]

 Also after looking at pictures around the Chicago forum and the Sicilian forum, I am looking for the thickness of a Chicago. but a crisp crust and moist bread-like interior, is that a Chicago? or a Sicilian? or something else? any recipe ideas? atm in about 1-2 hours I've got to make the dough and atm I was thinking a Chicago sounds closer so to try that.

[Squirrelman]

 I got side tracked yesterday and have to hurry and make the pizza dough now, for use in about 8-10 hours. Probably won't come out good because of rushing it but heres the recipe I came up with for the dough. It's based off Pete's recipe in this post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.0.html

Flour (100%): Water (61%): CY (2.5%): Salt (2.5%): Olive Oil (5%): Total (171%): Single Ball:

497.12 g  |  17.54 oz | 1.1 lbs 303.24 g  |  10.7 oz | 0.67 lbs 12.43 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 12.43 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.66 tsp | 1.22 tbsp 24.86 g | 0.88 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.52 tsp | 1.84 tbsp 850.07 g | 29.98 oz | 1.87 lbs | TF = 0.1515 425.04 g | 14.99 oz | 0.94 lbs

I increased the yeast, and am going to use warm to touch water to help boost the 1st proof, let it sit out 20-30 minutes probably and then take it out 1-2 hours ahead to warm up (depending how proofed it looks then) I don't think this recipe usually has a pre-proof but it's also not suppose to be used within 18 hours so I am guessing it would need it. I also increased the hydration 3%. mostly because I usually tend to add too much flour in while kneading. The only thing I'm really scared about is i'm not sure if the 5% oil goes in the dough or in the pan or 1/2, 1/2.

[Mad_Ernie]

Also after looking at pictures around the Chicago forum and the Sicilian forum, I am looking for the thickness of a Chicago. but a crisp crust and moist bread-like interior, is that a Chicago? or a Sicilian? or something else? any recipe ideas? atm in about 1-2 hours I've got to make the dough and atm I was thinking a Chicago sounds closer so to try that.

Squirrelman:

What you described brings more of a Sicilian style picture to my mind, the key being "moist, bread-like interior".  Chicago-style deep-dish (as opposed to Chicago thin-style) crusts typically use a lot of fat in the form of butter or shortening and the resulting consistency is more like a pie crust to my way of thinking.  Not being an expert on Sicilian style pizzas by any means, based on what you've described, I would recommend using a higher gluten flour, probably a bread flour. 

[Mad_Ernie]

Flour (100%): Water (61%): CY (2.5%): Salt (2.5%): Olive Oil (5%): Total (171%): Single Ball:

497.12 g  |  17.54 oz | 1.1 lbs 303.24 g  |  10.7 oz | 0.67 lbs 12.43 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 12.43 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.66 tsp | 1.22 tbsp 24.86 g | 0.88 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.52 tsp | 1.84 tbsp 850.07 g | 29.98 oz | 1.87 lbs | TF = 0.1515 425.04 g | 14.99 oz | 0.94 lbs

I increased the yeast, and am going to use warm to touch water to help boost the 1st proof, let it sit out 20-30 minutes probably and then take it out 1-2 hours ahead to warm up (depending how proofed it looks then) I don't think this recipe usually has a pre-proof but it's also not suppose to be used within 18 hours so I am guessing it would need it. I also increased the hydration 3%. mostly because I usually tend to add too much flour in while kneading. The only thing I'm really scared about is i'm not sure if the 5% oil goes in the dough or in the pan or 1/2, 1/2.

My only comments based on your calculations are:
1) You may not need to add a 3% increased to the moisture content.  I would probably only add 1-2%, but go ahead and see what happens.  A lot of pizza-making is experimentation. 
I've not made a Sicilian pizza from scratch before, and I don't know how much flour you are actually using when you knead your dough.
2) As I understand the calculator, the numbers are for the 'final' total dough ingredients, so the oil would include whatever amount you add into the dough while making it, plus anything it might pick up from placing it in the pan.

[Squirrelman]

 Ah ok, thank you. dough was made this morning. looks basically like regular pizza dough except i through some oregano,garlic powder and onion powder in it, a tiny amount just to see what effect it has since I think many big pizza places add similar spices. maybe a 1/4 tsp each or something.
 Otherwise I just took it out of the refrigerator and am leaving it an hour because the room was pretty cold this morning and it didn't proof much so I wanted to give it a 2nd boost, then throw it in the refrigerator for about 2 hours and then take it out for a 1-2 hour warm up before I go over my mothers and put it in the pan to proof a final time for w/e amount it might need.

 Only thing is it doesn't look like enough dough to get the thickness I want, maybe I used the dough tool wrong or maybe it's just because it hasn't proofed enough yet. And yeah I used a bread flour. the last time I used KA High gluten I didn't like the end texture, maybe it's something I did different but the bread flour made a better pizza last time. Btw all of my flours are king arthur atm, ap/bread/hg.

[Mad_Ernie]

That sounds fine.

The dough should proof well at room temperature, and it will be easier to manage than a cooler dough.

As for the flour, stick to what you like and feel comfortable with. 

[Squirrelman]

 The pizzas came out very good, I was surprised how good the texture came out for my first Sicilian, they could have been slightly thicker for my preference and the crust wasn't very crunchy though, they had enough color but maybe still needed longer in the oven to get crusty? or maybe I used too much or not enough oil and that effected the crust formation? either in the dough or in the pan iI mean.

 The pepperoni/onions/peppers pizza was ok but now on I'm going to boil my pepperoni first. The other I didn't use any dry tomatoes on and mixed some Parmesan cheese with the feta and it came out amazing, sadly I only made enough for 1 slice of each per person and everyone wanted more. Definitely going to do that 1 again.

 Here are some pictures of the feta/bacon/tomato one (They aren't as greasy as they look).

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/4406/dsc00134wx6.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3032/dsc00135fj1.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/537/dsc00136mg7.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2076/dsc00137ly6.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6144/dsc00138zl3.jpg

[Pete-zza]

The pizzas...could have been slightly thicker for my preference

Squirrelman,

Looking at the dough formulation you used and the amount of dough involved (14.99 oz.), if the pan you used to bake the pizza had a surface area greater than 99.94 square inches, the crust would be thinner than the dough formulation calls for. From the first photo, it looks like you used a round pan. If so and it was greater than 11.22" in diameter, the crust would be thinner than intended.

Peter

[Squirrelman]

 yeah, it was a round pan. I measured it as 9 inches but think it was at least 10, so your calculation sounds about right. Also the sides curve out. I didn't care if it was a perfect measurement for the 1st try so just estimated around 9 inches. now on I'll estimate 11ish.

[Pete-zza]

Squirrelman,

Many pizza operators who make the Sicilian style tend to use bromated flours in order to get a higher risen crust. You could try adding a pinch of ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to your dough formulation to see if that helps.

Peter

[zalicious]

Those are beautiful pies, Squirrelman. They look delish. I'm thinking I need to make a bacon one soon .

[Squirrelman]

 tThanks, how did your pizza hut clone come out? I should try pizza hut again, more for knowledge then anything. I never really liked pizza hut when i was younger, maybe I'd like it now, either way I've got to try 1 next time I'm around there to see what it was that made everyone like pizza hut. I think what I didn't like was there sauce.