Author Topic: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce  (Read 59264 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2011, 06:02:20 PM »
I made it with Kroger great value, I looked for the 6-in-1 product but didn't see it at two stores.  I'll keep an eye out for it.

Steve,

There have been reports in the past that some Krogers carry the 6-in-1s but I have never found them in any Krogers near me, even their Signature stores, but I have found them in a specialty Italian food market near me, sometimes in the small cans but more often in the #10 cans. There are many online sources for the 6-in-1s but many of our members order them directly from Escalon at http://www.escalon.net/products.aspx. I believe that PJs is still using a Stanislaus product, which, like the 6-in-1s, is a high quality fresh-pack tomato.

Peter


Offline Stevorino

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2011, 03:44:18 PM »
I'll have to look around at the other local grocery stores.  There's another 2-3 stores near my house that are a bit 'higher-end' than the nearby Kroger.

I'm taking the dough out of the fridge now - so I'll post my impressions later tonight/tomorrow.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2011, 12:03:48 PM »
Papa John's Tomato Sauces

Quote from article; New York post:

Quote
Almost all sauces are reconstituted, from cooking tomatoes at a high temperature and evaporating them to create a concentrated paste that can be stored for two years without going bad and can be transported easily. If youíre going to make tomato sauce, you need to add water and cook it again. The sauce made from tomatoes grown in Stanislaus County in California is cooked only once, so they say it preserves volatiles, or flavor components. Thatís probably true, but I donít know anyone who has done a study about it. Stanislaus companies sued to try and distinguish their sauce from the ones that are common commercially.

Papa Johnís used it, too, but two years ago they switched to Heinz tomato sauce made from tomato paste. [UPDATE 5/5: Chris Sternberg, senior vice president for communications at Papa John's, contacted The Food section and says: Papa John's uses only fresh-packed tomato sauce and has never used tomato paste for its sauce. Sternberg says the company uses fresh-packed sauce from both Stanislaus and Heinz.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/books/qa-ripe-author-arthur-allen.html

at the link below you can see the papa johns "fully prepared pizza sauce" being processed at Heinz-Escalon plant.

Heinz California Tomato Tour August '10
Quote
http://picasaweb.google.com/elliotpope/HeinzCaliforniaTomatoTourAugust10#


For the Heinz product I would look into the Bell'orto line of tomatoes first for a best match. They are very flavorful high quality tomatoes.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2011, 12:44:48 PM »
Lydia,

Thank you very much for your post.

I know that big companies can't let themselves be dependent on a single supplier for critical items and therefore try to avoid sole source contracts. Hence, they have backup suppliers to the main supplier or spread the business around to multiple suppliers. I tried both the Escalon 6-in-1s and the Stanislaus Tomato Magic tomatoes in my tests, mainly because I was able to find them in small cans. For those who cannot find the small cans, I recommended the Wal-Mart crushed tomatoes.

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2011, 08:43:32 PM »
I just made this sauce and it's AWESOME.  Can't wait to see what it wil taste like after 24 hours in the fridge!  Thanks for sharing this, Peter!   :chef: :pizza:

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2011, 10:48:12 PM »
I just made this sauce and it's AWESOME.  Can't wait to see what it wil taste like after 24 hours in the fridge!  Thanks for sharing this, Peter!   :chef: :pizza:

I'm glad you liked it. It seems to work pretty well on a Papa John's type of pizza although I have used it on other types of pizzas also.

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2011, 10:50:37 PM »
yea I don't get Papa John's often since it's not too close to my house.  I have to agree with the others that the sauce is really sweet - i've never noticed that at PJ's before.  however, i REALLY like it.  this might be my new go-to sauce.  thanks again Mr. Pete!

Offline johnamus

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2011, 01:11:18 AM »
Peter,

In your opinion is lemon juice a viable addition in order to match the citric acid level in PJ's sauce?

-John

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2011, 08:36:51 AM »
In your opinion is lemon juice a viable addition in order to match the citric acid level in PJ's sauce?

John,

I have never done it, but I understand that some members do use lemon juice as a substitute for citric acid. As an alternative approach, one can use actual citric acid, which is readily available in powdered form. I have a small packet of citric acid that I purchased some time ago from an Indian food store to try to replicate a Pizza Hut pizza sauce, but I couldn't detect a big difference so I did not pursue the matter further.

As you know, Papa John's uses a Stanislaus tomato product, which does include citric acid. By contrast, Escalon, which makes the 6-in-1 products, says that it does not add citric acid to its products, as it notes at http://www.escalon.net/about_us.aspx where it says:

Unlike competitive tomato products, citric acid (a sour tasting preservative) is never added to any Escalon branded product. As a result, the final products are tantalizing in color, and so true to the sweet taste of fresh tomatoes that you will think they were just plucked from the vine.

But, the above quote should not be interpreted to mean that the Escalon tomato products do not have any citric acid. I once spoke with a food broker in the Dallas area who deals with several suppliers of canned tomato products and when I mentioned that Escalon tomato products had no citric acid, he corrected me and said that all tomatoes have some citric acid and that producers of canned tomatoes regularly adjust levels of citric acid in their products. In Escalon's case, it just does not add any more citric acid to its tomatoes. But it is there naturally and, in that vein, you will often see that a tomato can label says that there is naturally occurring citric acid in their product. It's possible that if the amounts of citric acid are below a certain level the producer/canner does not have to list the citric acid on its labels. I would imagine that there is an FDA regulation on the matter.

Peter


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2011, 12:54:11 PM »
Today, at Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16096.msg162383.html#msg162383, I reported on a phone call that I made to the company that makes a new line of tomato products that are sold at Wal-Mart under the name of Classico, a company that, like Escalon, is owned by Heinz. The specific product that I called about is the Classico crushed tomatoes. As noted in Reply 8, I was told that the Classico crushed tomatoes are very similar to the Escalon 6-in-1s that I have used to make a Papa John's clone pizza sauce for use with PJ clone pizzas. In fact, the Classico crushed tomatoes are produced by Escalon. I can't see any reason why the Classico crushed tomatoes can't be used in lieu of the 6-in-1s to make a credible PJ clone pizza sauce. I suspect the same is also true of the Classico ground peeled and unpeeled tomatoes that are also sold at Wal-Mart's. They are all of the fresh-pack variety, as is the case with the Stanislaus tomatoes used by Papa John's for its pizza sauce in its stores.

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2012, 10:10:57 PM »
it's the end of a long day mediating between 2 conflicting "senior" co-authors on a scientific manuscript.  i'm making pete's awesome pj sauce clone, and just want to thank you pete for doing such thorough work on this formulation.  i dont know what you do for work, but your approach is inspirational and the depth and clarity of your writing is second to none.  cheers!   and please keep up the great work!   :chef:

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2012, 10:28:41 PM »
it's the end of a long day mediating between 2 conflicting "senior" co-authors on a scientific manuscript.  i'm making pete's awesome pj sauce clone, and just want to thank you pete for doing such thorough work on this formulation.  i dont know what you do for work, but your approach is inspirational and the depth and clarity of your writing is second to none.  cheers!   and please keep up the great work!   :chef:

CDNpielover,

Thank you for the kind remarks. I guess you could say that what I do on this forum is my work, but it doesn't feel that way to me. I like the technical and mathematical aspects of pizza making, maybe even more than the pizzas themselves.

Peter

Offline JPHL

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2013, 02:00:59 PM »
I notice your sauce in reply#20 using walmart tomatoes uses somewhere around 21 oz of tomatoes.  the cans themselves contain 28 oz.  from an earlier post it seems you make them into a finer puree and do something else to remove excess water.  can you elaborate more on this.  I'm sorry if this is something basic but I am fairly new to pizzamaking and really cooking in general. 

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2013, 07:40:58 PM »
I notice your sauce in reply#20 using walmart tomatoes uses somewhere around 21 oz of tomatoes.  the cans themselves contain 28 oz.  from an earlier post it seems you make them into a finer puree and do something else to remove excess water.  can you elaborate more on this.  I'm sorry if this is something basic but I am fairly new to pizzamaking and really cooking in general.
JPHL,

I believe you meant to say Reply 30 rather than Reply 20 in your post. Reply 30 is the post where I discussed using the Wal-Mart Crushed Tomatoes in Puree, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.msg59208.html#msg59208.

The Wal-Mart tomatoes were not my first choice since they are not made from fresh-pack tomatoes. I decided try them, however, for the benefit of those members who did not have access to good canned fresh-pack tomatoes. I soon discovered, however, that the Wal-Mart tomatoes were more watery than the fresh-pack tomatoes. I was striving for the consistency of ground fresh-pack tomatoes. When I drained the Wal-Mart tomatoes, I ended up with less solid product. That is why the amount of the prepared Wal-Mart tomatoes was around 587 grams.

If you are considering using the Wal-Mart tomatoes, I have some good news for you. For some time now, Wal-Mart has been carrying the Classico brand of tomatoes. They are fresh-pack tomatoes and are produced by the same company (Escalon/Heinz) that produces the 6-in-1 fresh-pack canned tomatoes. You can see the particular Classico canned tomatoes that are available at different Wal-Mart stores at http://tomatoes.classico.com/products/. The product that comes closest to the 6-in-1s are the Classico Peeled Ground Tomatoes, although I think the Classico Crushed Tomatoes should also work. Not all Wal-Mart stores carry the entire Classico line so you may have to check out a few Wal-Marts.

Peter

Offline chaspie

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2013, 04:20:12 PM »
Peter, Walmart also sells (at least in my area) Cento brand All-Purpose Crushed tomatoes in 28 ounce cans.  That's what I've been using to make my sauce for NY style pizzas.  I assume they would work well for American style pizza too.  I think they taste great, and they are nice and thick, not watery.  The only ingredients are "Fresh Red Ripe Tomatoes".

   

Offline barkonbutts

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2013, 03:36:01 PM »
Great sauce, I like to use Cento petite diced tomatos, need to find sunflower oil...but with out it, the sauce is still just about spot on!!
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Offline spazster

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2014, 07:09:01 AM »
I just tried this with Contadina whole peeled tomatoes. Either my strainer catches more than than Pete-zza' or they are just too watery.


Offline rdibble

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Re: Reverse Engineering/Cloning Papa John's Pizza Sauce
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2014, 04:56:30 PM »
Peter,

Maybe when I have a little more time, we can talk about using instrumentation (that you hopefully have access to) and special techniques for determining constituents and their quantities in an unknown solution or material.

...

There are all sorts of ways of separating chemicals and compounds from a solution, which is what you really need to do for better accuracy.  I'll get back to this subject as soon as I can.

- red.november

Can you elaborate? I'm interested in these techniques.


 

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