Culture care after washing.

[PizaJim]

Ok, started my Ischial, and got infected. I started this Friday night at 6 Pm and looked good until Saturday morning. I have now washed it 4 times. The last time was 3 hours ago. I now have a slightly amber hooch on top, but no activity. What do you peeps think? Is it OK?

It has a floury, sweet smell, kind of like milk, but stronger.

After washing, I have kept it in the proofer, is that correct, or should I now be at room temp?

How often should I be feeding?

Any help would be appreciated, I'm afraid I killed the little boogers!

Jim

[scott r]

Try this, give it a 1/3 flour 1/3 water 1/3 old starter feeding and let it sit out at room temp.  It should begin to rise within a few hours.  When it stops rising (should at least double, but may triple) feed it again at whatever ratio you see fit.  It may be that your culture is fine now and you can begin a normal feeding regimen.  That would mean feeding only when the dough is done rising.  Good luck!

[PizaJim]

Thanx Scott, Here is how it looks now, I fed it after I took those pics with 1 cup flour, 3/4 cup water and this is how it looks now, 3 hours later. There is a thin layer of bubbles on top of the hooch. When I fed it, it foamed up to about 2/3 full almost imediately. What do you make of all this? Another washing?

Anybody else that wants to chime in is welcome.

This site is awsome! Thanks everyone for all your input!

[scott r]

ok, it looks like you still need some activation.  At this point I would go back to the Ed wood instructions.  If you start getting sour smells or the hooch moves again you can do some more washing.  Don't give up, because these will eventually activate properly.

[PizaJim]

Thanks, Scott, right now I'm a little confused on where I am at with Ed's insutructions as far as how often to feed and temps. Can you help?

[PizaJim]

The stuff on top of the hooch seems to be getting thicker (taller) I think I'll wash again??

Jim

[Pizza_Not_War]

Jim,

Keep washing - it will eventually work. I recall doing 6-7 washes before my starter got into shape.

The culture is hard to kill and mess up. Once you having it going you can develop your own feeding and usage technique and forget the "instructions". If you search the internet and read all the bread books you will find that everyone does it differently.

I use my main culture 3 times a week and what I do is take it out of the refrigerator, remove the quantity of starter I need (after a quick stir) and then add to the removed starter twice as much flour and water as I took out. Example, 1 cup starter mix with 2 cups flour & 2 cups water. I then proof this @ 80 degrees until at least doubled. Many recommend waiting until it starts to recede from it's peak expansion, I don't usually hang around waiting for this.

I generally then feed some flour and water into the "mother" sponge and put it back in the refrigerator. I also will add any leftover new activated starter from the "baby" sponge back into the "mother" sponge. Others advise letting the starter come to room temperature before doing these steps, I have cut that step out and it works fine.

So far my sloppy methods are working great, because as I said they are "hard to kill".

PNW

[PizaJim]

Thanks PNW,

I took Scott r's appoach, and sort of combined yours. I had like 2/3 of a jar in both, so I dumped it down to 1/3 cup in both jars, then added 1/3 c water and flour and stirred. they are on the countertop now while i run to get mom a  Barnaby's. The jars are now 1/2 full. Wish me luck!

Jim

[PizaJim]

"So far my sloppy methods are working great, because as I said they are "hard to kill".

Yah, I thought mine were dead, they look like they are doing OK, just a littel TLC is in order. Kind of like your first kid, the owner's manual is a little vague, so any other advise is welcome!

Jim

[PizaJim]

Any advise on how often I should feed at this point?

Jim

[Pizza_Not_War]

Any advise on how often I should feed at this point?

Jim

If it is fully activated and free of foreign invaders, stick it in the refrigerator. Then start using it as per Ed Wood's directions. After a few uses you can modify your technique to better suit your time schedule. Don't let the starter run your life, your the boss!

As I said I generally use 1/2/2 which is one part starter/two parts flour/two parts water. At 80 degrees I can usually let it sit before I go to bed and it is ready early morning for me to use.

PNW

[Bill/SFNM]

Any advise on how often I should feed at this point?

Jim

Even if successfully washed, the culture may still be pretty weak at this point. Each time you feed it, it should be slightly more active. In one case, IIRC, I ended up feeding after washing for over 10 days, twice per day, before the culture seemed strong enough to use. YMMV.

[PizaJim]

Thanks everybody, This morning it looked like it may have had a peak over night but I'm not sure. It had a whole lot of bubbles on top, and I did not see any hooch or separated liquid. So I fed with 1c flour and 3/4c warm water and put back on the counter. I'm thinking I'll feed again in 4 hours?

Jim

[scott r]

Even if successfully washed, the culture may still be pretty weak at this point. Each time you feed it, it should be slightly more active. In one case, IIRC, I ended up feeding after washing for over 10 days, twice per day, before the culture seemed strong enough to use. YMMV.

I agree with bill.  Do not put this into the fridge the first time it bubbles over the top.  Keep it out, keep feeding it, eventually it will taste good.  If you make pizza or bread too early after activation you will not have as good of a product as if you let it really get accustomed to it's new home and feeding schedule.  I usually go for at least a week of 2 feedings per day before going into the fridge.  This is all after full activation, not including the activation time.

[PizaJim]

OK,

Hopefully these pictures and your knowledgeable comments will help others. I fed at 8:00 this AM, then again at 1:30 this afternoon and now this is what I have. Ithink they are looking pretty good, but what do I know. After the morning feeding they kind of sat there, and then before I left for lunch, they looked happier. after the afternoon feeding 1 1/2 hours later, 3/4" of foam. They now have a 2" foam on top, plus the stuff below the foam has lots of gas in it too. No separated liquid, just foam. Smells like a heavenly bread. Even the kids think it smells good now.

My plan is to feed tonight before bed, then again in the morning. I'll  be gone for 12 hours, then feed again. I am taking Bill and PNW's advise to go through several feeding after full activation to advance flavor. My goal is to be ready to make dough Wednesday for  the weekend. Do you think I am rushing it?

Jim

[scott r]

Yes, you should take a little time before baking with this. There are all kinds of nasty bacteria that you want out of there before you bake. The hooch on the bottom and the off smells that you had are indicators that these dangerous bacteria were indeed present in your culture. Again, I would suggest at least a week of feedings (hopefully 14 feedings) from the point you are at now.  If you were to make dough with this culture wednesday it would produce a very sour and dense bread that could still potentially contain trace amounts of bacteria that could make you very ill.  To make things even worse the type of bacteria that were present in your culture often slip past doctors because they are not common and therefore are not looked for in regular testing!

The good news is that you are now very close to full activation, and past any washing stages.  At this point I would wait until foaming/bubbling stops or slows down and then feed rather than follow ed's timed instructions.  A cooler room will give you more time between feedings (could be once a day) than a warmer room (could be twice a day).  If you want to move very fast through the cycles you could probably fit in three feedings a day using your proofer set to somewhere around 85 degrees.  Again, the key is to feed, wait for the bubbles to slow or stop, then feed again as soon as possible.

[PizaJim]

Thanks Scott, that's good advise and clearly put. Waiting for the bubbles to die down is a pretty clear indicator.